Author Topic: I'm outta here
Jedi_Dajuan 
Title: •Admiral of FanForce
•RPG & Minis Forum

Registered: Dec '02
40091_UR breaking my <3
Date Posted: 9/11/07 2:47pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
Ok, one thing I am noticing here is people keep assuming the worst about what's being said. _A_V_ didn't mean anything negative by his comment, and I'm sure cathiecat didn't mean to imply that the TFF set up the event, rather that it was an event the TFF is attending. So if something can be taken in a negative way or not negative way, please assume the other meant it in a non negative way.

That being said, sometimes group dynamics change. It sucks to lose members over over things like that, but sometimes it can't be helped. More later, at work.

 

-----signature-----
EV got me demoted, a winnar is him sad
"you will quickly be known as the cool teacher. just be sure to start of the clas by explaining to all students they are to address you as the admiral." -- jedi_knight_birr
Ok, this is why evolution is bunk. You're
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dialswiftjustice 
Registered: Jul '05
41196_Hamm Jedi
Date Posted: 9/11/07 3:10pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here - Date Edited: 9/11/07 4:28pm (2 edits total) Edited By: dialswiftjustice
Even I thought the heartfelt goodbye was a thinly veiled jab, but now that its been clarified (or back-pedaled whichever way you want to see it) I see that it was just not thought out well before posted.

the great thing about the fan force is this. Its a growing entity constantly in flux, and as such has the potential to become the premier SW fan club in the state. Our first year we sought out costumed based charity events because we were so successful at them. We also had alot of SW releated events just come to us (the not 2B toyed with premier, etc). This year we did not make an active attempt to seek out costumed events and charities as many of us were dividing our time between the 501st, home, school, work etc, so it just didnt happen as much. But who knows? If the costmers havn't all together abandonded the fan force, next year we could be in demand again. But now I feel we have the potential to became that premier SW fan club because of the diversity of the inerests (minis,costuming,rpg,book club). Now more than ever we truly appeal to the widest range of SW fan out there. We just need to let them know we're here for them. So I hope the upcoming events aren't looked at as stricly costumed events. We are promoting the club, and could use as many members dedicated to reaching out to the public to come.

 

-----signature-----
Funniest things heard while trooping:
"Your not Darth Vader!" Kid looking at the Tie Pilot
"There's no robot bug in Star Wars!" Kid to Tie Pilot
"Oh! You're hard!" Woman after hugging a Stormtrooper
myspace.com/tucsontrooper
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thatsMISTERwookiee 
Registered: Nov '05
Date Posted: 9/11/07 11:37pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
hal9k1 posted:

I'm not "fanning the fire" but I thought I'd post what I have as Events the TFF "officially" did in costume (so far) in 2007

6.30.07 Galactic Empire Food Drive
5.24.07 USPS Tucson Stamp PremierYou are right. I forgot this one.
4.15.07 Koman Race for the Cure
3.28.07/5.9.07 Flowing Wells Star Wars Concert
1.3.07 Make a Wish TFF and the PFFI could be wrong, but I believe the actual event occurred in December 2006.

 

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hal9k1 
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison

Registered: Dec '03
6254_Scout Trooper
Date Posted: 9/11/07 11:51pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
thatsMISTERwookiee posted:
hal9k1 posted:

I'm not "fanning the fire" but I thought I'd post what I have as Events the TFF "officially" did in costume (so far) in 2007

6.30.07 Galactic Empire Food Drive
5.24.07 USPS Tucson Stamp PremierYou are right. I forgot this one.
4.15.07 Koman Race for the Cure
3.28.07/5.9.07 Flowing Wells Star Wars Concert
1.3.07 Make a Wish TFF and the PFFI could be wrong, but I believe the actual event occurred in December 2006.




I was not sure about the Make a wish event, I think U R right about it being in '06

 

-----signature-----
Damian
http://www.danzelmo.com
501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709
http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster)
Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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thatsMISTERwookiee 
Registered: Nov '05
Date Posted: 9/15/07 6:57pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
_Anakin_Vader_ posted:
KickingnScreaming posted:
... Mike's statement about "things for the fans" that are non-charity is typical of the type of anti-costuming feeling I get from some of the group members these days. Like costuming/charity events are NOT for FANS.


Just FYI all, I'm most definitely NOT anti-costuming.

What is truly pathetic, disgusting, and disturbing, Mike, Michelle, and everybody else in the group, is that ANYONE should have to publicly declare what their allegience is in regards to costuming. Has it really come down to this level?

Where did this poison come from? It was not present in the group BEFORE Celebration 4. Did costume events tend to dominate what we did as a group? Probably, we were trying to build up membership, and getting noticed in the community was an obvious way to do that. Even our PREVIOUS Chapter Rep wanted to promote the group by participating in events. Would the zoo want us back, year after year, if all we did was show up in t-shirts? Would Channel 13 have put Dustin on the news in Nov. '05 if all we were wearing were "civvies"? Would the Band Director at Flowing Wells have wanted us for even a single night if all we were wearing were STAR WARS shirts? EVERY COSTUME EVENT that we have done, whether tied to a charity or not, has ALWAYS had PROMOTING THE TFF tied in with it. There were times when it seemed like we had too many events going on, but we did it to help promote the group.

Then came C4, and suddenly, attitudes changed. It didn't help matters that the TFF scrapbook was alternately used as an example of an active FanForce and then used as an example of what FanForces SHOULDN'T BE DOING (too much "costuming"). To anyone outside the TFF that might wish to deny this, this was witnessed by more than one member of the TFF. At least one person came back from C4 believing that what we had done in the past was wrong. A charge was leveled at the "costumers" that they were dominating the group and not letting other interests flourish within the group. As near as I have ever been able to find out from this ivdividual, this accusation was unfounded. Yet for some reason it stuck, and now, some three months later, the "costumers" feel like pariahs, that every little thing they do that involves costuming has to have a built-in apology for those that don't "costume".

It would be nice if there was some leadership from the FanForce leadership that could help quell and rid this group and others of this poison. But, apparantly, the poison seems to be coming from some of the FanForce leaders themselves.

Why should the costumers have to apologise for anything? Are the Minis players going to apologise if someone thinks the group plays Minis too often? Will the Book Club have to cut back on the number of books they read if someone thinks they're reading too much and too many books? We need to rid ourselves of this poison that was pushed on us from outside forces. So what if we like doing a lot of costumed events? As long as other interests within the group are not denied in favor of costuming, or in favor of ANY OTHER INTERESTS, then it is nobody's business what we do, so long as the FanForce guidelines are followed. If all a group wants to do is costume, then that is their right. If all a group wants to do is play chess with a STAR WARS chess set, then that is their right, also. NOBODY SHOULD BE FORCED TO PARTICIPATE IN SOMETHING THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN. That is why this group has different interests. If I, for example, have no interest in Minis, I should be able to attend other functions and not have anyone tell me I should show up to a Minis game anyway.

I think it is time that the "Jedi" in charge of the FanForce start acting like Jedi and stop acting like Sith.

Anyways, them's my thoughts...

 

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Mugen 
Title: Tucson FanForce
Props Expert

Registered: May '05
41233_Darth Nihilus
Date Posted: 9/15/07 7:56pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here - Date Edited: 9/15/07 7:56pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Mugen
thatsMISTERwookiee posted:
stop acting like Sith.


Whats wrong with acting like SITH??? angry tongue

 

-----signature-----
"SITH" (thats all you need to know)
TC/CC 8991 Az501st.com
SITH > JEDI
Evil will always win because Good is DUMB!
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dialswiftjustice 
Registered: Jul '05
41196_Hamm Jedi
Date Posted: 9/15/07 8:32pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
I cant vouch for the FF higher ups. But I will say this. Since there are new officers, and a new TFF CR, the non costuming activities have increased, and the costume events show no signs of ceasing to exist. The TFF is becoming Tucsons Ultimate Fan Club because of the new regime that is NOT anti-costuming ,or anti-anything fan related for that matter. Frankly if you are a costumer or not, I think now is the ebst time to join the TFF, there is a little something for everyone.

 

-----signature-----
Funniest things heard while trooping:
"Your not Darth Vader!" Kid looking at the Tie Pilot
"There's no robot bug in Star Wars!" Kid to Tie Pilot
"Oh! You're hard!" Woman after hugging a Stormtrooper
myspace.com/tucsontrooper
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firstsonofsolo 
Title: TFF President
Registered: Feb '06
16500_Jango<br>Action Figure
Date Posted: 9/15/07 9:09pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
I see alot of different angles and understand where everyone is coming from. Yes it seems that the higher ups would rather not have any fan force do costuming but rather have us join either legion. Yes there have been complaints in our own ranks about costuming or too many costuming events. I sometimes regret sharing things that may cause this but I feel that none of us should be kept in the dark.

Some of the events we do as the TFF are flown under the 501st banner for ease and the 501st Tucson squad is litterally weeks away from reality. The TFF is quickly becoming recognized and people want us at their businesses or events mostly due to costuming. We have made an impact on Tucson that no other fan club can touch. We are experiencing major growing pains here but some of it is due to the fact of poor communication. Sometimes it feels like the costumers are outcasts, yes I have felt this way before myself. The non costumed or less active costumed feel the same. What I believe the differenece is communication and the fact that neither side knows really truly how the other feels.

Jack is absolutely correct in saying that our exposure has come from costuming in the community. What we offer is far beyond that and that is how we keep growing. I personally feel that we have not done enough charity events this year as the TFF but then again we are getting into our busy season and we had a huge event being C4 that although it was not a TFF event it was a major impact on us this year.

Now I am not saying that all of our exposure has come from costuming but look who we have because of it.

I am going to share a personal experience that may help others now how I feel.

I was asked multiple times by a good friend to come hang out at Cats house or to come to a meeting. I kept telling myself it was a bunch of geeks with really bad BO sitting around talking about Star Wars which was not my idea of a good time. Then after constant asking from my friend he told me that I could probably sell all my toys to these people (cha-ching!).

So I loaded up my car with some stuff and headed down to a meeting. Sitting there looking at all these diverse people gathered around I instantly felt welcomed and like my opinion actually mattered. Then there was talk of all this charity work and visiting sick kids in hospitals, doing food drives for the needy and walking in the march of dimes. Get this these freaks do this crap in Star wars costumes!!!! So I stopped and thought to myself of all the car clubs I had been in and rememeber even being on a council and being shot down when I said I wanted to go to UMC and have a car show for the sick kids. I was told "I'm not gonna let some kid sit in my car and screw around they will break something". Yet here are these people that have spent several hundred dollars (later meeting people that have spent thousands!) and visit these kids and play with them and even bring them a toy at their own expense (I consider a toy drive alot of work hence including at ones own expense)!!! So here I am trying to benefit from this and suddenly I am intrigued........very intrigued.....

So a couple weeks go by and my good friend wants me to come over and when I get there he wants me to try on his costume!!! I was so excited!!! After about 30 minutes I was able to look at myself in a mirror and there I was Jango Fett!!! A week later I traded him almsot my entire toy collection just for some fabric, vinyl and plastic armor. Then comes the March of Dimes walk and I will tell you the whole time I was grinning ear to ear I was even able to meet a woman who was 102!!!

So here I was a grown man wearing a bunch of plastic and extremely excited about it!! Trying to tell my friends and co-workers about it and then telling them how much money and time I have spent working on it and to date yes is in the thousands range! Done get me wrong I am a huge fan and enjoy all aspects of the fandom. I love collecting and displaying but my greatest joy is putting on that costume!

(I am going to steal a few words and some of my own)


I put on some plastic, fibergalss and sheetmetal armor and then get my toy pistols and slip them into my holsters and go out and fight some of the greatest threats to mankind which are diseases, hunger and to give children the right to be happy. Even if it only brings one child a smile and for a split second they forget what they are going through I have done my job and done it well!



 

-----signature-----
Chris Jackson TFF President
Jango Fett BH-2244
"Do or do not there is no try" ~ Master Yoda
http://www.tucsonfanforce.com/
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hal9k1 
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison

Registered: Dec '03
6254_Scout Trooper
Date Posted: 9/15/07 10:04pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here - Date Edited: 9/15/07 10:33pm (1 edits total) Edited By: hal9k1
I think something needs to be made clear. Since I only have my own experiences and reasons I’m going to use myself as the example. Nobody asked that we do this it's just how we choose to serve the community.

As far as costuming goes…. do any non costumers have any idea how much time, effort, research, money, thought, concern, communication, travel, and pride goes into making each and every costume used to benefit and improve the TFF?

Simple answer, no. probably not.

It’s not something that has been experienced by everyone. Just as anything else unless you go through the processes or have that experience you don’t just don’t understand it fully.

That being said any hostile or seemly hostile opinion from pro-costumers are from feeling like we’ve put our heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears into something just to have in belittled and told it’s not what were supposed to be doing. I’m not pointing fingers or placing blame, it’s just my observation and opinion.

This stuff is built by hand with great care to detail over countless hours to show the community that we are not just a bunch of geeks in bathrobes or pajamas running around with toy Lightsabers or COM badges. We take great pride in what we make and what we do.

We have to look and act like the professionals we are to garner the respect in the community so we can continue to do more in the future. Reputation is everything in this endeavor. Everyone in the TFF benefits from what everyone else does, regardless as to what it is; it’s a symbiotic relationship steaming from a common love of a single story and wanting to interact in the community and gain it's respect and understanding.

I have 1 day off and I choose to spend it going to a children’s ward tomorrow at 10:00 am and do what I can to make those kids forget for a short time why they are in the hospital.
Would I rather be sleeping in late on my day off, not getting up at 6:30 Am or not staying up late after working all day to make changes on my armor? Yes, I really would. But this is a completely selfless thing we all do. We have the time, energy, and money to help others that may not have all that we have available to us.

Just to break it down. 1 scout trooper armor (I have a spread sheet with this stuff accounted for, not including S/H)

Body armor $350
Glue strapping and assorted stuff to shape and make it fit (tools)+ $250
Helmet + $275
Boots + $75 (hand made from parts)
Blaster +$125
Cummerbund, pouches, and vest + $125
Voice amp, padding, under suite, extra strapping, Velcro and glue, etc + $150

Total monetary cost: @ $1,400

Time taken to make it wearable and research put into it well over 50 hours.

Total amount of time worn during the year… under 10 hours.

This does not take into the equation the travel time and gas to “troop” an event once the costume is finished

This take a lot or time and effort, but the payoff is seeing a child’s face light up when they see you.

Why would I put this much time, money and energy into this?
Because I can. Basically all it takes is one child to smile at me and however hot, tired, long the trip to the event was, amount of money spent its all makes it worth it. Even if they don’t know why you are their or who you are dressed up as they know someone cares enough to take the time to go see them. That’s enough for me. Right now in my life I have the money and (almost enough) time to do this, something to help others and the community. This is probably the one thing in my life I'm most proud of.

Back in “77 my mother took me and my sister to Macys (in NYC) and we stood around by the escalator in the fine china department for over half an hour just standing. I wanted to leave not knowing why we were just hanging around. After the waiting we found out why we were just standing their.
Darth Vader showed up! Walked right though the china and crystal displays. I was awe struck! I never forgot how that made me feel. Forward to when I was about 30. I went to the local “Toys R us” to look for Star Wars toys. When I walked in I saw a Tie pilot, Sand Trooper, and Stormtrooper. Again, over 25 years later I was awe struck! I felt exactly like I did when I was 6 seeing Darth Vader. I had no clue about the Fan Force or the 501st till about 5 years later.

I still get all giddy seeing a sea of troopers, regardless if I know who is under the armor, or if I’m in armor myself. I still get that feeling I get that feeling I had back in ’77. My childhood was not very happy, but Star Wars made me happy... I want to share the joy it gave me with other people.
This also gives you a sense of accomplishment, selfless, and comradely that I've not felt doing anything else.









 

-----signature-----
Damian
http://www.danzelmo.com
501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709
http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster)
Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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dialswiftjustice 
Registered: Jul '05
41196_Hamm Jedi
Date Posted: 9/15/07 10:56pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
hal9k1 posted:
I think something needs to be made clear. Since I only have my own experiences and reasons I’m going to use myself as the example. Nobody asked that we do this it's just how we choose to serve the community.

As far as costuming goes…. do any non costumers have any idea how much time, effort, research, money, thought, concern, communication, travel, and pride goes into making each and every costume used to benefit and improve the TFF?

Simple answer, no. probably not.

It’s not something that has been experienced by everyone. Just as anything else unless you go through the processes or have that experience you don’t just don’t understand it fully.

That being said any hostile or seemly hostile opinion from pro-costumers are from feeling like we’ve put our heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears into something just to have in belittled and told it’s not what were supposed to be doing. I’m not pointing fingers or placing blame, it’s just my observation and opinion.

This stuff is built by hand with great care to detail over countless hours to show the community that we are not just a bunch of geeks in bathrobes or pajamas running around with toy Lightsabers or COM badges. We take great pride in what we make and what we do.

We have to look and act like the professionals we are to garner the respect in the community so we can continue to do more in the future. Reputation is everything in this endeavor. Everyone in the TFF benefits from what everyone else does, regardless as to what it is; it’s a symbiotic relationship steaming from a common love of a single story and wanting to interact in the community and gain it's respect and understanding.

I have 1 day off and I choose to spend it going to a children’s ward tomorrow at 10:00 am and do what I can to make those kids forget for a short time why they are in the hospital.
Would I rather be sleeping in late on my day off, not getting up at 6:30 Am or not staying up late after working all day to make changes on my armor? Yes, I really would. But this is a completely selfless thing we all do. We have the time, energy, and money to help others that may not have all that we have available to us.

Just to break it down. 1 scout trooper armor (I have a spread sheet with this stuff accounted for, not including S/H)

Body armor $350
Glue strapping and assorted stuff to shape and make it fit (tools)+ $250
Helmet + $275
Boots + $75 (hand made from parts)
Blaster +$125
Cummerbund, pouches, and vest + $125
Voice amp, padding, under suite, extra strapping, Velcro and glue, etc + $150

Total monetary cost: @ $1,400

Time taken to make it wearable and research put into it well over 50 hours.

Total amount of time worn during the year… under 10 hours.

This does not take into the equation the travel time and gas to “troop” an event once the costume is finished

This take a lot or time and effort, but the payoff is seeing a child’s face light up when they see you.

Why would I put this much time, money and energy into this?
Because I can. Basically all it takes is one child to smile at me and however hot, tired, long the trip to the event was, amount of money spent its all makes it worth it. Even if they don’t know why you are their or who you are dressed up as they know someone cares enough to take the time to go see them. That’s enough for me. Right now in my life I have the money and (almost enough) time to do this, something to help others and the community. This is probably the one thing in my life I'm most proud of.

Back in “77 my mother took me and my sister to Macys (in NYC) and we stood around by the escalator in the fine china department for over half an hour just standing. I wanted to leave not knowing why we were just hanging around. After the waiting we found out why we were just standing their.
Darth Vader showed up! Walked right though the china and crystal displays. I was awe struck! I never forgot how that made me feel. Forward to when I was about 30. I went to the local “Toys R us” to look for Star Wars toys. When I walked in I saw a Tie pilot, Sand Trooper, and Stormtrooper. Again, over 25 years later I was awe struck! I felt exactly like I did when I was 6 seeing Darth Vader. I had no clue about the Fan Force or the 501st till about 5 years later.

I still get all giddy seeing a sea of troopers, regardless if I know who is under the armor, or if I’m in armor myself. I still get that feeling I get that feeling I had back in ’77. My childhood was not very happy, but Star Wars made me happy... I want to share the joy it gave me with other people.
This also gives you a sense of accomplishment, selfless, and comradely that I've not felt doing anything else.





After reading the above, I hope it is realized that if the costumers elave the TFF, or the FF as a whole, the heart, and the compassion goes with them. Does the FF really want to lose meembers of this moral character? I would guess not, and I am honored, to know and troop with every one of you. In my job we become close because we never know if the next call is the last we may see of one another. But in the end police come togther because of a job. The TFF came together out of nothing more than their compassion for SW, the fans, and the children. My fellow officers I woul dsay I have jb experiences with. Wih the TFF and you guys, I have life experiences whic wll remain with me forever. I look forward to tomorrow to have another one.

Now speaking my heart, and hearing everyone elses, I hope we can leave this behind and move forward and grow as a community fan club. Lets erase the lines that were seemlingly drawn inthe sand between the costumed and non costumed, and just be the Tucson Fan Force again.

 

-----signature-----
Funniest things heard while trooping:
"Your not Darth Vader!" Kid looking at the Tie Pilot
"There's no robot bug in Star Wars!" Kid to Tie Pilot
"Oh! You're hard!" Woman after hugging a Stormtrooper
myspace.com/tucsontrooper
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14of3amberofborg 
Registered: May '06
14380_Aurra Loves Jango
Date Posted: 9/17/07 7:21am Subject: RE: I'm outta here
I have stayed mostly out of this because quite frankly it irritates me and I have better things to do that get deeply involved in a fight that is sufficed to say, kind of non-sensical.
Let me make this clear...
THIS IS A VOLUNTARY GROUP

All aspects.. Do what you want to do. Don't try and cut anyone off at the knees.
The best thing (even though I am not a huge SW fan) is that the people involved are fantastic. Such a crazy, funny and diverse you would find no where else.
Be friends, get along.
That is all.

 

-----signature-----
Amber (FSOS wife)
Your imagining my presence here...
I cant be here...
Here is fictional!
None the less... a tank top would be nice!
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Mugen 
Title: Tucson FanForce
Props Expert

Registered: May '05
41233_Darth Nihilus
Date Posted: 9/17/07 11:37am Subject: RE: I'm outta here
Damn Trekkie....





tongue

 

-----signature-----
"SITH" (thats all you need to know)
TC/CC 8991 Az501st.com
SITH > JEDI
Evil will always win because Good is DUMB!
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hal9k1 
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison

Registered: Dec '03
6254_Scout Trooper
Date Posted: 9/17/07 12:42pm Subject: RE: I'm outta here
14of3amberofborg posted:
I have stayed mostly out of this because quite frankly it irritates me and I have better things to do that get deeply involved in a fight that is sufficed to say, kind of non-sensical.
Let me make this clear...
THIS IS A VOLUNTARY GROUP

All aspects.. Do what you want to do. Don't try and cut anyone off at the knees.
The best thing (even though I am not a huge SW fan) is that the people involved are fantastic. Such a crazy, funny and diverse you would find no where else.
Be friends, get along.
That is all.


Yes, U are correct.


The "other" reason we got all "bent out of shape" over this is because we care.
You fight for what you believe in and care for. This group, it's mission, and it's members are worth fighting for.

 

-----signature-----
Damian
http://www.danzelmo.com
501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709
http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster)
Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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14of3amberofborg 
Registered: May '06
14380_Aurra Loves Jango
Date Posted: 9/18/07 7:39am Subject: RE: I'm outta here
I agree...
but I think there should not be anything to fight over...
No one should have to defend what they do in this group, as far as wthers its RPG, books, costuming, or minis or whatever..
Participate in whatever you want!
Thats a great part about this group..

 

-----signature-----
Amber (FSOS wife)
Your imagining my presence here...
I cant be here...
Here is fictional!
None the less... a tank top would be nice!
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hal9k1 
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison

Registered: Dec '03
6254_Scout Trooper
Date Posted: 9/18/07 9:48am Subject: RE: I'm outta here - Date Edited: 9/18/07 9:51am (1 edits total) Edited By: hal9k1
14of3amberofborg posted:
I agree...
but I think there should not be anything to fight over...
No one should have to defend what they do in this group, as far as wthers its RPG, books, costuming, or minis or whatever..
Participate in whatever you want!
Thats a great part about this group..


IMHO

On top of everyting else, we're family... and family bicker.

We are all just falling into the typical Family Dynamics role and pattern.

Maybe I'm just trying to find another excuse and being overly diplomatic, because you are correct and I'm trying to defend my actions and oppinion.

 

-----signature-----
Damian
http://www.danzelmo.com
501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709
http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster)
Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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