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Lit 138 ABY and Beyond: The Essential Post-Legacy Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Expanded Universe' started by AdmiralNick22, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Grand Admiral Jello Community and Expanded Universe mod-type person

    If we're reviving dead series, my first preference would be X-wing (esp. since it died just as it was moving into some interesting stuff), but Legacy would be good too.
  2. Skaddix Jedi Knight

    I would go Legacy. Not that X-wing was not good but Legacy contributes more to the overall Star Wars Universe.
    WIERDGREENMAN likes this.
  3. Crimson Zephyr Jedi Master

    I vehemently disagree with the monarchy part for a few reasons.

    1.) It's anachronistic in a space-faring civilization to have governments resembling feudal or absolute monarchies from the Middle Ages or Early Modern Period, with the corresponding social patterns and mores that made such social organizations possible or necessary. With that said, the structure of the military in any vaguely modern sci-fi is too bureaucratized and too complex for it to be run by a small cadre of individuals at every level. This problem is why we have Luke Skywalker, physical god extraordinaire, in every single story. The focus is solely on a few.

    2.) Being a noble doesn't prevent a character from being a government official, a politician, or a general sleaze. Better that stories include people from humble origins as well, instead of showcasing the elite and promoting a system where they and only they have any say in how their society is run.

    3.) Star Wars already has too much of this. The adoration of chosen ones and the elite, of princes and knights, people who are born into such power. Politicians who roll up their sleeves and work in government are portrayed as corrupt or immoral, whereas characters born into wealth and prestige are pure and noble at heart, and only those with superpowers are worthy of helping the Galaxy. The message it sends is that good and competent people are born and not made.

    4.) Corellia itself runs contrary to this. It got rid of its old monarchy by force and hung a pretender afterwards. They're not going back to a monarchy.

    5.) Star Wars demonizes democracies far too often. Let's have a functional, if realistically flawed democracy for a change.
    WIERDGREENMAN likes this.
  4. Havac Moderator of Your Temporary Lit Substitute

    Eh, to be honest, I'd rather have the timeline work itself up to Legacy first. The more Legacy goes on, the more awkward it gets not to establish various stuff or to skirt around backstory, so either you're left awkwardly avoiding saying too much, or going ahead and laying out facts that would increasingly restrict the previous timeline. Which I'm not necessarily against, as long as John and Jan are establishing stuff that's interesting and cool and full of potential, as they tend to, but they seem to be opposed to that. And if we're going to get more set in the Legacy era, I'd rather it be stuff that feels free to use Lowbacca and Horn Jedi and not obscure everything before the Sith-Imperial War than have a whole setting be artificially limited.
  5. Sinrebirth SWC, ToR and EUC Mod-Imperator

    Well, I'm not going to disagree there. But although FotJ pushed some really interesting ground for me, the timeline feels stuck.

    Either we need to settle Luke's era once and for all, and have a polite time-jump, which to me works because Luke gets to have his 'Victory', or Legacy goes off on its own direction with non-Big Three descendants. Have X-wing: Legacy, and ensure it doesn't deliberately push the plot forward at an incredible pace.

    Issue being that Luke has to have a Victory over Krayt now he knows about it, though, FotJ seems to be suggesting that Krayt was/is due to make a big push for galactic domination in Allana's lifetime, which Jacen and Luke have royally messed with. Now that is interesting to me, but the longer that thread goes on, the longer Legacy cannot push too far forward, strictly speaking.
  6. darthscott3457 Jedi Knight

    I respectfully disagree, I think rule by a group of nobles or the military is more fitting of a space faring civilization due to the scale involved. Plus I think it makes for a much more interesting story for me at least. I don't have a problem with people coming from humble origins and doing well either. Just because a planet is ruled by nobles doesn't mean someone can't rise to the top or that those nobles have to be evil. For me cable news has more than enough politicians and politics to go around in the real world, so I would like to skip it when it comes to sci-fi stories. Plus from reading my fair share of history/politics, I am just not a fan of democracy. I just don't think it is automatically the most fair, individualistic, freest, and most benevolent system out there, but to each his own. Its a big Galaxy out there and everyone can do their own thing:)

    Either way more Corellia in the Legacy Era would be great, maybe they can improve on those Corellian dreadnoughts from the Legacy of the Force novels.
  7. Crimson Zephyr Jedi Master

    You missed my point entirely. Nobility, a la the Middle Ages, is completely anachronistic in a space age setting simply because of the inherent complexity of the setting. Its not a place where one can advance in civilization simply by force of arms. The setting requires scientists to research technology, they need civil servants for record keeping and to act as bureaucrats. They need bankers and financiers to keep money flowing. They need educated military officers to lead their military. They need engineers to build their ships, their space stations, and their technology. They need politicians and statesmen to actually run the government, and so on. In this setting, singling out a person whose only claim to fame is that they have an old and noble name as the sole reason for them being fit for leadership is anachronistic. Nobles had true power when most people either lived on castles or in farms, were farmers, were illiterate, and bending the knee meant surviving another winter. Essentially, they were leaders because no one else had anywhere near the knowledge or ability. You might think people today are stupid, but most people in America can at least read with a basic level of proficiency. The people ruled by noblemen and kings couldn't even do that. In a space age setting where none of these things apply, they are effectively rich idiots with no day job. They are, therefore, leeches, unless they are also qualified for leadership. Not evil, but not a positive force for constructive governance.

    The fact of the matter is that looking to heroic kings and military strongmen is backward. It's an escapist notion, of course. Sure, the guy with absolute power would get so much done with no one to oppose him, or the military leader could force change through by the barrel of a gun. But its essentially nonsense. Individuals are only as effective as their own intelligence permits. By placing choices in the hands of so few, you're allowing their flaws to be reflected and magnified in the policies they support. As for military leaders, you can pretty much say goodbye to dissent. With unfettered military power, such things are disposed of violently. And that's on top of the problem of relying on a single person or a cadre to govern effectively for billions. For this kind of dynamic to work, the assumption must be made that a leader of this sort is competent always, and thus the prospect of their removal -- which, face it, is always violent -- is unnecessary. Elections, for all their faults, at least provides a method for choosing leaders that doesn't rely on choosing idiots arbitrarily from some family, or on fighting wars. And politics can be boring, messy, and unsavory, but it is part and parcel with a complex civilization. And if Star Wars wants to portray government fairly, instead of an obstacle that "ubermenschen who are always right" must overcome, it's going to have to acknowledge that.
  8. Ausstig Jedi Knight

    If there is one thing i learned from "Yes Prime Minister" it's that politicians don't run countries unelected civil servants do. Also 99% of all politicians are scum, either corrupt, lazy or just incompetent and most voters are even worse. That said in reality we don't have any better systems

    Also Star Wars is science Fantasy, so having Kings and Emperors and Knights is not something that bothers me, that said I would like to see democracy actually be good. As a counter point to the good Empire that will be rising soon. Right now it seems both systems are bad and the jedi are the only people who can do anything.
    GenAntilles likes this.
  9. Crimson Zephyr Jedi Master

    That, in itself, is a troubling and unfortunate development. Having Jedi be the only competent figures in government implies that such competence is in-born and not learned, that simply having the Force makes one inherently more deserving of holding political power. Its that nagging fascistic element in Star Wars that few want to acknowledge.
  10. Bud Charles Jedi Youngling

    I think the Star Wars series has repeated itself just the right amount of times now, I agree about having minor parties become larger now. The Sith and Republic continually self-destruct or destroy each other and I think that's happened enough times. Perhaps there should also be conflicts between the minor groups in galaxy rather than just Mandalorians vs GA, Hutts vs GA, etc. We should have two or more of those minor groups clashing with each other.
  11. Gorefiend Jedi Grand Master

    Off course they all have a formal bureaucracy in place that will keep the state running, the other stuff seems to be more for pomp and show, Bail is also just a de facto prime minister, they just call him something more “noble”, other than that, those that aren’t outright dictatorships or oligarchies, seem to be constitutional monarchies (Tapani/ apparently Alderaan) or democracies with royal dress get up (Naboo).
  12. Grand Admiral Jello Community and Expanded Universe mod-type person

    Zephy of the Crimson variety: Nobility existed before and after feudalism, and isn't necessarily tied with it. Consider, for example, the primeval aristocracy of the United States--never truly titled, but essentially hereditary for the first century of its existence, and transferring its grip on power from a colonial deferential society to an industralized market economy through early mastery of the new levers of power.

    It's the easiest thing in the world to transmit power once someone already has one.
  13. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Maybe have a Corellian create Outbound Flight 2 and OF 2 ends up in another galaxy with new threats or in an alternate galaxy. Or maybe have an emissary from a Universal government come and invite the SW galaxy into the new government or something
  14. Ghost Jedi Grand Master

    I wonder if people are more interested in the fate of the characters, or the new state of the galaxy?

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