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Amph A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoiler Thread) - mask spoilers for TWOW

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. Grand Admiral Jello Community and Expanded Universe mod-type person

    Worthy double post: I cobbled together by hand this image from the HBO's viewer's guide showing all of Essos. Here's the biggest quality version I could get uploaded online; the full version is 26mb. http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4300/essosandwesteroslowqual.jpg . I am definitely NOT making this image an inline link, lol.
    trimaj likes this.
  2. MarcusP2 Manager-in-Exile

    Yes, that's the dodgy admiral who made off with Cersei's ships. Good on him. :p
  3. Darth Guy Force Ghost

    It's one pixel off!!!11
  4. Grand Admiral Jello Community and Expanded Universe mod-type person

    You wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't told you. :p

    edit: I had 1-3px errors in how I translated each of the 16 grids that made up the large image, so I had to tweak it slightly to avoid things overlapping or being inaccurate by a few pixels. Because apparently I have nothing better to do. Here is the fixed version: http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1509/essosandwesteroslowfixe.jpg
    trimaj likes this.
  5. Jabba-wocky Jedi Grand Master

    I thought the guy who stole the ships was Jacelyn Moore? Or is that someone else? Speaking of whom, because of the name I always imagined him as being Andrew from the boards.

    Anyway, in regards to the Stannis/Melisandre thing. It's never said directly for a long time. However, as I recall it comes out in Dance. I thought Melisandre may reference it in her POV chapter, but even if not I do distinctly recall someone from Stannis's camp (Davos?) saying/thinking it outright.
  6. The Loyal Imperial Census & Games General Manager

    Interesting. Ibben is further away than I expected.
  7. trimaj Jedi Master

    davos wonders about stannis/melisandre alllll the way back in ACOK, but doesn't actually say anything outright. there were hints about it, specifically the shadow that came from her womb and stannis dreams being tied in with those.

    nice map jello.
  8. Darth Guy Force Ghost

    I couldn't decide if the shadow babies were literally Stannis's children or if she just modeled them after him.
  9. Jabba-wocky Jedi Grand Master


    Not that. I distinctly remember the subject coming up again in Dance. Maybe it was something from a Jon chapter?

    EDIT: Aha! It is Melisandre after all. In her POV chapter, she says something about her bed "not seeing much use" since Stannis left to attack the Boltons. While not an outright statement that the two have sex, it is a virtual guarantee that Stannis has betrayed his marital vows.
  10. Havac Moderator of Your Temporary Lit Substitute

    It was Aurane Waters.
  11. MarcusP2 Manager-in-Exile

    I think she also asks Davos to come into her tent at one point because his life force would be even more useful than Stannis's, which has dampened somewhat since she used him to create the babies, or something.
  12. Jabba-wocky Jedi Grand Master

    Was anyone else completely thrown for a loop by this week's episode?

    The portrayal of Margaery Tyrell seemed almost diametrically opposed to what we are presented in the books. Even as narrated by her very worst enemy--and one prone to paranoid flights of fantasy--she comes off nothing like what we just saw. If ambitious, she also by all accounts directs her energies into different things than this episode would suggest. Even the Kettleblacks mentioned, much to their frustration, that she genuinely seemed to prefer spending time among her female cousins, or hawking, or horseback riding. So where does really any of the character they put on HBO come from?
  13. MarcusP2 Manager-in-Exile

    Is she more like the Queen of Thorns in the show? Probably easier to make a main character like that and appear to be the main driver of the plots.

    She was fine with having Joffrey killed (no way she didn't know about that.)
  14. trimaj Jedi Master

    i dunno... there were some things about her that kind of struck me as being kind of like that in AFFC and SOS. i mean, it wasn't quite what i was expecting, but it did kinda feel like her to a degree. there were things about her that seriously suggested that she knows what she likes and she wasn't stupid.
  15. Havac Moderator of Your Temporary Lit Substitute

    In the books, it's more of a lingering question of whether she's the innocent young girl she presents herself as, or if she's actually a schemer and political player alongside her grandmother, with it seeming more and more apparent over time that she's actually a sharp maneuverer. But the books are not for-sure portraying her as a sweet innocent.
  16. MarcusP2 Manager-in-Exile

    She saw through Cersei's plots straight away when they talked in the jail in AFFC, for example.
  17. Raven Jedi Master

    I never thought of her as a sweet innocent in the books, but I thought that it suited her to come across as one. She gives the impression of being a genuinely nice person, but then, Littlefinger can be charming until you get to know him.
  18. Darth Guy Force Ghost

    As I've told wocky numerous times, I think it's impossible to get an accurate impression of Margaery Tyrell in the books because 1) most of what we know comes from Cersei, probably the craziest viewpoint character outside of the Greyjoy uncles and 2) Margaery is simply a minor character.
  19. Grand Admiral Jello Community and Expanded Universe mod-type person

    I do think, though, there are only two ways to read her given the way the Tyrells have been manuevering: she's either an innocent pawn of Olenna or she's a player in league with Olenna. I got the impression that she was the latter, and I got that mostly through the Sansa chapters rather than the paranoid Cersei ones. Sansa innocently reads the Tyrell girls as being her saviors, but you can see through that pretty clearly and realize that Margaery and co. are only befriending Sansa because they want her claim to Winterfell. Once she's given to Tyrion, they completely abandon all pretence at friendship. It's plainly transparent that Margaery is no ingénue.
  20. Jabba-wocky Jedi Grand Master

    Okay, but even those things don't make the HBO portrayal coherent. Even to those who viewed her as cynical and calculating, everyone agrees that her public strategy has been to play to the image of the ideal spouse/Queen. This is the single most commented fact about the character, and one we have plenty of direct evidence for. She's a Jackie Kennedy of her era.

    Even the costuming last night clashed violently with this idea. The V-neck in her dress, besides being wide enough to fit Bran's entire shoulder span comfortably inside it, also plunged probably halfway to her belly button. On multiple occasions, we've seen literal prostitutes from the show dressed more conservatively. Just facially, we can recognize that something is wrong from the fact that the nightgown she chooses in a deliberate attempt to entice her husband isn't really any more revealing. In what society has anything like that ever been the case? Let alone a feudal society that displays many of the classic anxieties about gender roles and female sexuality. It calls into question not only the plausibility of her political strategy, but also just the basic idea that she was supposed to be groomed as a highborn lady at all. They got this wrong.

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