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Lit Battle of Endor - Rebel and Imperial assets

Discussion in 'Expanded Universe' started by Noash_Retrac, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Noash_Retrac Jedi Knight

    The novelisation's description of the Rebel Fleet has always puzzled me and I haven't been able to locate the Thrawn Trilogy sourcebooks for Alderaanian gunships or the Truce at Bakura sourcebook for the Kessellian blockade runners.

    I always figured that Alderaanians crewed ships across the fleet and lets not forget that the Ishi Tib and Elom natives were also there, and the Bothans.

    (I vote in favour of a detailed sourcebook on the Battle of Endor at some point in the future).
  2. jasonfry Star Wars Author

    Good call on the Peremptory. She was missing from my list. (This is why there were 33 slots!)

    To be clear, the Glorious, Warden, Paladin and Tisophone never got as far from LFL, so they're fanon -- by the time I'd put my roster aside, they'd been removed in favor of the Justifier, Nemesis, Stormhawk and Recondite. So they likely never would have seen the light of day.

    Others I had on my initial Endor roster, but also never reviewed with LFL: Bellicose, Conquest, Avarice, and Death's Head.
  3. Pfluegermeister Jedi Master

    Well, then here's good news: pg. 201 of Warfare confirms that the Death's Head was indeed part of the original fleet defeated at Endor, so no need to review that one with LFL. The Nemesis and Stormhawk also made it through.
    Tzizvvt78 likes this.
  4. jasonfry Star Wars Author

    Ha. Like I said, been a while!
  5. Noash_Retrac Jedi Knight

    I didn't think that Captain Sair Yonka was a veteran of Endor (he commanded the Avarice) - makes his deflection in The Bacta War more ironic and his service to the New Republic in Isard's Revenge even more entertaining.
  6. blackmyron Jedi Master

    Looks like all the 12 ISDs that survived the Battle of Endor (and stayed with Prittick) were the ones used by Thrawn - we have 7 of the 12 named in the EGTW. Considering that (a) the ISD Avenger was part of Death Squadron and (b) fought at the Battle of Endor and (c) survived in the Dark Empire era, I would guess that it's number eight. The Bellicose was mentioned in TLC as part of Thrawn's operations, so we can postulate as the ninth ship and also one of the Endor survivors. The Peremptory, apparently under Thrawn's control in the Thrawn Trilogy, is likely the tenth. The Conquest was also a member of Death Squadron pre-Endor, although its fate unknown. The Redoubtable was badly damaged and routed to the Black Sword repair yards and lost to the Yevethans; not sure where that would fit into the Endor survivors. Stalker was part of Death Squadron, but one of the two ships that returned to Elrood Sector, presumably. Tyrant is another possibility for the 12, as it survived Endor and was back under Imperial control around the time Thrawn returned. Vengeance II was a member of Death Squadron, but may have been under Jerec's control by Endor - in any case, he sent it to the Emperor Reborn's forces in the Deep Core, so it couldn't be one of Thrawn's 12. The Virulence "fled the battle", so probably not (and definitely not one of Thrawn's 12 as it became the Errant Venture!)
  7. DarthKiryan Jedi Master

    Nice list.
    If i remember correctly, the scene where the Millennium Falcoln is about to engage the Star Destroyers that shot has about 40-60 SDs in there. That is if i counted correctly. Just thought you should know.

    Let me edit that. I counted 33 after watching the scene again. Dunno where i got 60 from. Maybe the wiki
  8. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    Saxton's estimate:
    http://www.theforce.net/swtc/misc.html

    Partial images of a Imperial fleet pincer at the start of the Battle of Endor. Twenty-two warships are visible, including the Executor. Rebel craft are in the foreground. There are 13 warships to the left (starboard) of Executor. Since Executor is probably the centre of the formation, symmetry suggests that there would be 13 more warships on its port side, which would give a total of 27 Imperial ships.

    However- going by The Essential Guide to Warfare, it wasn't a "fleet pincer"- the big group seen is the only group the Rebels are facing, rather than one of two equal-sized groups.
  9. blackmyron Jedi Master

    Thinking about the phrase "Alderaanian gunships", I just realized it would be awesome if the Another Chance was part of the Alliance fleet at Endor..
    GrandAdmiral Paxis likes this.
  10. DarthKiryan Jedi Master



    Pause at 2.15 or 2.16. Count the more in focus dots. there are about 30-35 of them

    The numbers change consistently but even if you consider some of the blurry parts that may be star destroyers as stars - well, they are all moving. It depends on perception in this scene.
  11. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    I can't get any more than about 26 or 27 (not counting the Executor). Not sure how Saxton managed to get only 22 though.

    This was the pic he used to demonstrate the numbers:
    [IMG]
  12. AdmiralNick22 Jedi Grand Master

    @Noash_Retrac

    Since you added the various unnamed ISD's, Tector-class SD's, and battlecruisers to your list, I would reccommend adding a list of unnamed but visible Rebel ships from ROTJ. This wouldinclude the 6-8 unnamed MC80A wingless cruisers seen in the last shot of the fleet. In addition, the hi-res version of this shot (which I cannot find online) shows upwards of 10-12 Neb-B's, IIRC, in the background:

    [IMG]

    I will fire up my Blu-ray edition this weekend and try to get some more exact numbers.

    --Adm. Nick
  13. Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master

    I count 37 at most from that horrible transfer on YT.
  14. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    Guide to Warfare's 33 Imperial class & 3 Tectors (plus 2 battlecruisers, plus unknown numbers of Victory class ships and Interdictor ships) does comfortably ensure that the ships we see are covered, I'd say.
  15. Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master

    The green one is a ship that's later obscured by the fighters in the foreground.[IMG]

    33 ISDs at most (some could be unseen in this shot), plus 4 ships (all 3 Tectors at most) plus one more (Victory or one or both of the battlecruisers).
  16. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    The smallest and least clear ones could conceivably be Victorys, or Interdictors, from an EU perspective.
  17. Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master

    A later shot of the fleet holding position, shows more ships like far away blips, compared to the ones we see as far away blips in this shot.

    EDIT: Got a clearer image, from TC's DVD transfer. Saxton seems to have forgotten to update the site back when he changed out some of these images. I still count 37, but in different places now. I also think Saxton got the pincer reference from the novel, which might imply a similar formation (minus the Executor) coming from a different direction.
  18. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    Based on The Essential Guide to Warfare, it may be that the pincer reference can be assumed to be "book-only". Certainly there are scenes in the book that don't match the movie-

    the Executor isn't covered in flames before the A-wing crashes into it,
    it doesn't crash into lots of ships on its way down to the DS2,
    Han and Leia aren't surprised by someone saying "That is correct- just as you are" behind them (when Han says of the Rebel fleet "They're backed against the wall")

    and so forth.
  19. Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master

    It's not contradicted by the movie, either. And would make a whole lot of sense if the point is to trap an enemy fleet.
  20. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    That's what the Interdictors are for. Though a case could be made that the two waves have joined up just before we see the Falcon flying toward the Executor.

    The Rebel fleet has the Death Star shield at its back- and one visible Imperial fleet, with Interdictors, in front of them.
    blackmyron likes this.

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