SWC Fanboys vs Fangirls

Let me just start by saying how I love movies like Star Wars have gone mainstream. One thing I disagree with in the video is that not all of us are as obsessed with minor changes in the OT.





@anakinfansince1983 and @MichellePeterson1970
Yeah, now I understand what you two were saying earlier about how it sucks that the only thing people remember about Leia is her slave costume.

yet you get women playing her in her slave outfit at cosplay

hmmm

You get women who think they are ordered by some divinity to obey their husbands too.

I'm not sure how women dressing up as Leia in that outfit, overrides our objections to that outfit or especially the prominence of it.

so you're saying women who dress up as Leia are being forced?

or am I misunderstanding you

No, they aren't being forced. Women who believe the Bible orders them to obey their husbands aren't necessarily being forced to do so either--they have chosen to do so based on their religious beliefs.

Maybe not the best comparison and I'll look for a better one, but my point is the fact that women dress up in that costume, does not take away from my or Michelle's earlier point: that it is sad that that particular costume, the one that reduces Leia to a sex slave, the one that Carrie Fisher had to starve herself for, is by far the most memorable. Leia was so much more than her body, whether women dress up in that costume or not.

well I agree it does nothing for the saga in general as far as plot points go

on the other hand I'm just saying it looks like some women don't have a problem with it

But my point is that some women not having a problem with it, does not mean that my concerns are less valid. That's why I brought up the Biblical injunction of obedience: it's not a good direct comparison, but some women obviously don't have a problem with that either. But when I got married, I made a point of telling the minister that I absolutely was not vowing to obey.

An issue of this sort does not cease to become an issue unless every single woman on the planet has a problem with it.

not saying it does,

but not every single woman does obviously, a few might be wondering what the fuss is about

it would be interesting to see a females perspective who doesn't have a problem with it.

Obviously I can't speak for them, but it could be as simple as their liking the costume, thinking (often correctly) that they look good in it, and not knowing or thinking much about what Carrie went through to be "thin enough" for it or how predominant that costume has become in comparison with Leia's other outfits.

I'm 40 years old and grew up with Leia as a role model in an era when most leading female movie characters were sex symbols, damsels in distress or both. Leia was unique in that she was intelligent, a leader, had a no bull**** attitude, and was pretty while being so much more than that. That outfit took away that uniqueness and reduced her to the level of other female characters if her time. Women who did not grow up in a time when Leia's character was unique, might not view the outfit through the same lens.

There weren't many women in the Star Wars saga...especially the OT, so for Cosplay you are a bit limited. Let me tell you...if I had the body of that actress in the video I would be wearing a slave girl Leia costume to Celebration or ComicCon. Hell, I would go grocery shopping in it.

There are differences in Fanboys and Fangirls but we are all fans. I know in fanfiction there are maybe a bit more women but there are also a lot of men writing. The women have a tendency to write more romance, whereas the men seem to favor more action stories.

It is not just middle aged men who don't like the changes in the OT. Middle aged women don't like the "Han shot second change". But I guess it is not as bad as Spielberg swapping out the cops shotguns for handheld radios in the movie rerelease of ET.

As a woman I have no problem with Leia in the outfit. I don't think it was needed in the movie, but Lucas was catering to young teen boys with her, the Ewoks were for the little kids, the older women had Han and the teen girls had Luke. I have more of a problem with the stupid rescue plan. A lot of bad things could have happened to Leia while enslaved in Jabba's palace....really, really bad things. I guess Yoda didn't get to the lesson on hostage rescue tactics before Luke took off.

AnakinFan: Although I understand your objections to the sex-slave outfit--although remember, this stuff has roots in Flash Gordon pulp--isn't it more damning that Lucas couldn't bring himself to grant Leia a more substantial role in the trilogy capper? Personally, I find it more objectionable that her new designation as the daughter of Darth Vader stemmed not from a desire to enrich the character but rather to provide a storytelling crutch ("Hmmm, how's Vader gonna make Luke snap?").

In the end, she's reduced to a prize, fought for by her former prospective-lover/brother and her pseudo-rapist father. Now THAT'S misogyny!

I might be reading into too much what you're saying here, so forgive me if i'm wrong but I noticed "not knowing or thinking about what Carrie went through" does this mean they should feel guilty wearing such a costume? I'm sure if Fisher wanted to object she could have done, I don't like this notion or vibe the Leia outfit (and again i must stress i'm no fan of it) came with so much force.

I agree the outfuit took away the uniquness out of the character

It's not just women but even as a male fan I hate it when all they remember is that costume. Yes, she looks hot in it but that's not the reason we watch Star Wars. For god's sake, it's becoming more popular than the lightsaber.

On topic,
I don't like how she(in the video) generalizes that ALL Star Wars fans obsess over minor changes to the Saga.

It's not about them feeling guilty(they shouldn't) but the fact that that's what most people are taking away from it. When I'm grown up and I say I'm a Star Wars fan, I don't want people to ask me 'isn't that the movie with the girl in the gold bikini'?

@drg4: "Pseudo-rapist"? Not sure where that's coming from.

I have blocked the implied love triangle from the first two movies from my mind--I never liked it anyway, and AFAIC it's null and void with the revelation that Luke and Leia are twins. And I saw Luke going bats over Vader threatening to turn Leia as a further example of the familial bonds that turned Anakin in the first place: Vader, who had lost everything due to his own actions, wanted to salvage what he could by recruiting one of his children to his side. Luke, having seen his vision of his father the hero diminished by the reality of what Anakin became, does not want the same fate to befall his newly-found twin. IOW in my mind Leia could have been a man and the scene would have played out the same way, so I don't find the premise misogynistic at all.

AnakinFan: Vader very much coheres to the mythological, despotic patriarch of mythology; through Leia, his personage is all the more insidious, as his crimes could easily operate on a psychosexual level.

Everything he does to her revolves around assault and submission and diminishment. He tortures her (by way of needle penetration, no less). He physically restrains her, while his cohorts destroy her true family and homeworld. Later on, just when Leia's on the verge of becoming a demonstrative, sensual, complete human being, he reemerges to stalk and brutalize her while entombing Han, the would-be lover and husband (essentially freezing her, as well). Finally, in the Throne Room, he reveals his aim to completely consume her (the delight in his voice provides the one horrific passage in the film).

This rotter is the ultimate manifestation of an abusive, incestuous father. About one dramatic-payoff away from being Noah Cross in Chinatown.

No, this thread isn't about slave leia or any of the characters in the Saga really. Watching that video made me realize that there wasn't a thread discussing Star Wars fanboys and fangirls, how crazy they can get sometimes and how the media usually generalizes them as 'nerds',etc.

I thought the video provided some discussion points, it's simply a co-incidence she's in the gold bikini








I don't think you can separate different attributes of a fan based on gender though. What do you guys think?

@drg4,
I feel awkward saying this but you're really really going off-topic.

Wow, I totally missed the Vader/sexual predator angle when I watched the OT. Maybe all of his sexual angst comes from the fact that his wedding tackle was probably comletely burnt off on Mustafar.

But I agree, it seems a bit off topic.