Discussion in 'The Movies' started by Slowpokeking, Jul 11, 2012.
How about one of us starts a thread on this? (before the thread gods hear of our off topicness)
Then why is it when strong female characters reveal personality weaknesses, people get into a snit about how "badly written" the character is?
You understand death by a broken heart and the idea of courtly love as literary devices, yet you demand that the medical droids have medical evidence from her heart? You sound as if you're contradicting yourself. What do you want? The literary device or reality . . . in a STAR WARS film? Something that rarely, if ever occurs.
Why is it that to do this day, fans cannot explain Luke's growing skills with the Force between ESB and ROTJ with any real logic, yet hardly ever complain about it? Yet, fans are nitpicking over Padme's death from a broken heart. As I had asked on another thread, is this what STAR WARS fandom has come to?
I loved her character. She had weaknesses, and one of those was for Anakin. I know people think Padmé is a terrible character, but I beg to differ.
I still understand the idea of courtly love, etc. I also think that her death is still an emotional event.
However, in a film where Padmé just dies and they don't even say why, it then goes to Anakin, who's had his three remaining limbs hacked off, and has severe burns to almost if not 100% of his body. Her death to me was very incomplete. It could have just been said that she died of heart failure or the Force asking her to
I feel like Padme has to die in ROTS. The story wouldn't make much sense otherwise...
Personally, I would've liked it if Anakin DID really kill her. Like he attacked her and the wounds were so bad she died immediately after giving birth.
As long as she doesn't..."lose the will to live!"
I must agree with you there. As far as PT goes, she was much more developed than Anakin, who often struck me as whiny.
(I can understand brooding, but he seemed to cross the line too much for me.)
A lot can be said if Anakin killed her
even better if Luke knew about it and still forgave him
but, eh, killing kids is alright, his wife nah apparently
such is star wars fandom
Who in the hell ever said that killing kids was OK? I'm personally as disgusted with that scene as I am the Padme choking scene. I left the fandom for several years due to Lucas' choice to include those scenes. I still haven't quite forgiven him for it, but I've spent enough money on Star Wars stuff prior to 2005 and since 2009 that it doesn't really matter. Only between 2005 and 2009 did I vote with my wallet (didn't even pay full price to see ROTS in the theater, waited until it was at the dollar theater).
The only way ROTS could have gotten worse would have been for us to see in full screen exactly what Obi-Wan saw on the security hologram, and for Padme to go exactly the way Antilles, Ozzel and Needa did.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Agree with this! I still cry and feel sick at that scene every time. I hated Vader as a character for a good few years, because he seemed to have no remorse. I am actually a larger fan of Anakin/Vader now, because I realized he was not himself. He still was good in his heart, but he was twisted by the evil views of the Emperor.
And if Padmé went as the Imperial officers (and Antilles) who were in 1 film went, that to me would be a disgrace to her. She was strong, and had much more backing to her character.
I still feel bad for the choking victims, however they did not have the standing that Padmé did.
from a redemption standpoint for Luke, it works for me
If he killed Padmé, I think Anakin would either try to kill Obi-Wan or kill himself. And I feel that Obi-Wan would not be as forgiving.
Still, with Anakin believing Padmé died because of his actions, then it gives the chance for Luke to see his father back on the light side.
Obi-wan was forgiving? Where was this?
He would probably have actually killed Anakin. Forgiving is a bad word. Apologies
I didn't really see Obi-Wan as forgiving until the end of ROTJ. Maybe "unforgiving" is not the best way to put it, but he assumed Anakin could not redeem himself.
I'm not trying to "start" anything, only understand - would you expand on Vader's "still good in his heart" even while he was slaughtering Jedi babies? Are you saying he always had this good in his heart, or that he suppressed it for some time until it started to stir, or what?
Anakin, like all of the major characters in the saga, had both good and evil within themselves. And like Anakin, they sometimes allowed the more negative aspects of their personalities and their hearts to overwhelm them . . . at different levels.
But my question remains . . . did any of them ever learned to balance both the negative and positive within them, or simply allowed one aspect to overwhelm the other?
This is the difficult part. He always had good in him. It was just hidden under layers of emotional scarring, and anger, and fear.
Yes I get sad during those scenes, I really wish he wouldn't have done it. Or GL had the clones do it instead.
But when you watch the films, I realize though you could see him as selfish for not wanting to lose Padmé, he also tells her that they could do everything the way "we" wanted. He was being selfless, by trying to save Padmé and the twins.
(You could argue that he was being selfish, but why would he want Padmé to have everything she wanted? For her to have the option of creating a new society?)
So I believe he always had good in his heart, but it was "shrouded" by the evil that had taken him. Very deeply shrouded. And I believe that only someone who cared for him (e.g Padmé, Luke, Leia. Maybe Obi-Wan, but that's iffy.) would be able to help him show the good.
Again . . . the contradiction. A broken heart is an aspect of the courtly love literary device. You claim that you understand courtly love, yet you're demanding "realism" on the level of CSI. Why?
Because GL is a realist.
He may be, but Star Wars is not and was never intended to be a realistic story set in "our world". And he has said that Anakin and Padme's story is intended to be reminiscent of courtly love stories.
I still don't understand why he said she lost the will to live then. Why not just say broken heart?
I still don't agree with it, (never will) she to me was too strong of a character to die that way.