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EUC S.O.S. Save Our Skywalker (Temp Edition)

Discussion in 'Expanded Universe' started by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    yeah I know....it would be nice if LFL decide what eras need attention from books and comics and what doesn't properly. Clone Wars already has a show going on for 5 seasons and we had plenty of material from 2002 on we don't need another Maul story. Invasion is only 3 volumes of material which in the context of comics can be rather short depending on the run. Luke only latest appearance in the NR era was what Crimson Empire 3 ?

    sigh...
  2. ChildofWinds Jedi Master

    MasterSkywalker86 : To have her died in LoTF basically killed off any more stories of them as a couple in the future which I could perhaps dealt with if we had more books on Luke and Mara. Their marriage was almost 20 years when in reality it felt like they just met.

    Exactly! And I really loved their relationship and the way in which they worked together to solve the mystery in SQ. I really would like to see more books like that.

    JB might be estatic about it but I don't feel the same way for the era, we are already getting more Rebellion material from Del-Rey too, why not add some variety and have him during his early years as a Knight or master or husband ?

    I don't understand it either, MS, especially since the Rebellion era is the most crowded. Yes, I'm happy to read about Luke, but I want to read more about Jedi Luke. Allegiance was very disappointing. I didn't like Luke's characterization at all, and so far, I'm not enjoying his characterization in CoO either. I think Luke is too often written as far too inept, useless, and naive in the Rebellion era.


    you know perhaps in the next essential chronology book they can probably explained why he even decide to learn about the Vergere/Potentium philosophy at all. I can buy him experimenting other philosophies himself but to a degree,

    I can see Luke experimenting with Force skills from Force sects. I don't "buy" him trying philosophies that he knows all too well from Yoda, experience, and lessons learned, are just plain wrong. And the Potentium theory above all, I don't see Luke "dabbling" in. Luke had already told Jacen, Zonama Sekot and the whole Jedi Order (in that end speech) that the Potentium theory was wrong; that there is, indeed, a dark side.

    Yes, I completely agree. It actually seems like a rather cool ability, and it does seem a lot like a fallanassi illusion.
    he did it to Jacen in Inferno as well when Luke and his fleet left him. Jacen talk to Luke and it turned out he was just talking to himself.

    Good point, MS!







    kataja: Hey - we can never have too much Luke!?!!! And, ok, therre are other eras I'd like to see more of, but as long as it's Luke, I'm happy. As for limits, as long as he's in character, I don't care. I think farmboy and Rogues Luke is at least as great and interesting as Jedi Luke!

    For me, the problem is that I like the Luke that is the combination of Farmboy and Jedi Knight/Master best. When I just get one or the other, I feel something is missing. While I don't mind a story now and then that takes place in the Rebellion era when Luke isn't a Jedi, I don't want ALL of the Luke stories to be in that era... and except for Crucible, that's all we're getting: Just Rebellion era Luke, from Zahn, from Dark Horse, and now from another Del Rey author too. :(

    And I very much fear that Crucible Luke may seem a lot like Rebellion Luke, because I am very concerned that Luke won't be able to do much with the Force anymore now that he has been given this "handicap" by Denning. :mad:







    Jedi Ben : I think DHC has lost JJM as a SW writer! If so, it'll be a big loss to the SW EU!

    That would be a very great loss indeed! :(
  3. JediMatteus Jedi Master

    yeah this was in Dark nest not Dark Empire. It makes it clera that when luke was doing the doppleganger technique to duplicate the jade shadow in The Joiner King luke called on Anger and fear to boost his power. if need be i will look it up tonight
  4. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    JM

    yeah this was in Dark nest not Dark Empire. It makes it clera that when luke was doing the doppleganger technique to duplicate the jade shadow in The Joiner King luke called on Anger and fear to boost his power. if need be i will look it up tonight


    I just reread the text, all he was doing were illusions and Force cloak, the illusion of the Jade Shadow and the cloak for the real ship there is no actual term of doppleganger in the scene. Doppleganger I think is precisely used for making illusions of people but in reality it's all part of the same family of Force illusion/cloak powers. The only reason why the power burnt Luke out was due to him using those negative feelings to fuel the power and this is where Luke decides oh wait maybe using anger and fear is not the best way to use his abilities.:rolleyes:

    as we see in Inferno and Invincible Luke has used illusions and doppleganger the proper jedi way wiith no issues.


    Child

    Exactly! And I really loved their relationship and the way in which they worked together to solve the mystery in SQ. I really would like to see more books like that.

    as we said before, more stories should be made with Luke and Mara doing some detective work and exploring their relationship.


    I don't understand it either, MS, especially since the Rebellion era is the most crowded. Yes, I'm happy to read about Luke, but I want to read more about Jedi Luke. Allegiance was very disappointing. I didn't like Luke's characterization at all, and so far, I'm not enjoying his characterization in CoO either. I think Luke is too often written as far too inept, useless, and naive in the Rebellion era.

    I think there are moments he shined in CoO but they don't demonstrate the independence he shows from ANH and ESB on. Perhaps Zahn is trying to show him being green but it should be balance with some of his resourcefulness he displayed in ANH, using the harpoon cable to cross the bridge, rescuing the princess, shooting down the laser cannons base on his Force instinct, and of course destroying the Death Star.


    I can see Luke experimenting with Force skills from Force sects. I don't "buy" him trying philosophies that he knows all too well from Yoda, experience, and lessons learned, are just plain wrong. And the Potentium theory above all, I don't see Luke "dabbling" in. Luke had already told Jacen, Zonama Sekot and the whole Jedi Order (in that end speech) that the Potentium theory was wrong; that there is, indeed, a dark side.

    maybe that's what I'm trying to say I could see him utilize unique skills from various Force sects and maybe at the most try to understand the goal of each Force philosophy but at the end of the day he'll stay true the teachings of the Jedi no matter what.
  5. marmkid Jedi Master

    It's been a while since i read CoO, but i remember thinking it was Zahn's way of showing that while Luke was completely at ease on the battlefield, he was completely the opposite in other situations, such as diplomatic functions

    While i dont think that is necessarily out of charactor, I do remember it feeling a little too extreme at times. Luke feeling less confident dealing with dignitaries and government officials than he does on the battlefield makes sense but only to a certain point i think, especially given how we see him at the beginning of ESB.
  6. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    I think you're on to something. The book is what 6 months after ANH, so it's his first year with the Rebellion. I felt Luke was more comfortable in the cockpit of an X-Wing fighter than actual infantry engagements this early in his military career. The same applies as a diplomat but I felt Zahn overlook some things such as Luke not bringing his blaster along which felt off. I also felt he relied a bit much on his Force powers than he would at this point.

    the diginatary thing wasn't odd, but the focus on his Force abilities than his skills with a blaster was out of place. But I prefer his CoO interpretation than Allegiance.
  7. ChildofWinds Jedi Master

    JediMatteus: yeah this was in Dark nest not Dark Empire. It makes it clera that when luke was doing the doppleganger technique to duplicate the jade shadow in The Joiner King luke called on Anger and fear to boost his power. if need be i will look it up tonight

    Luke was using an illusion, not a doppleganger in DN., I think. He was trying to cloak the Jade Shadow. I think that dopplegangers involve people , not ships. But what makes the illusion that Luke used in DN wrong, I think, is that Luke used dark emotions like anger, to fuel his Force powers. If Luke hadn't used the dark emotions, there wouldn't have been anything wrong with the illusion in DN.




    MasterSkywalker86: Doppleganger I think is precisely used for making illusions of people but in reality it's all part of the same family of Force illusion/cloak powers.

    Yes, I agree. And, as you said, the only reason that the power burned Luke out and made him start to look older, was because he was using negative emotions to increase his powers.


    as we see in Inferno and Invincible Luke has used illusions and doppleganger the proper jedi way wiith no issues.

    Right! They're not darkside techniques really.



    as we said before, more stories should be made with Luke and Mara doing some detective work and exploring their relationship.

    Yep!

    I think there are moments he shined in CoO but they don't demonstrate the independence he shows from ANH and ESB on.

    I haven't finished CoO yet, but so far, I feel he is showing Luke as TOO "green" and naive, and he hasn't balanced it enough with Luke' s resourcefulness, so it makes Luke look sort of inept and useless.


    maybe that's what I'm trying to say I could see him utilize unique skills from various Force sects and maybe at the most try to understand the goal of each Force philosophy but at the end of the day he'll stay true the teachings of the Jedi no matter what.

    That's exactly the way I feel, MS.






    marmkid

    Welcome back, marm! You've been missed!


    Luke feeling less confident dealing with dignitaries and government officials than he does on the battlefield makes sense but only to a certain point i think, especially given how we see him at the beginning of ESB.

    Again, I haven't finished this book yet, but what bothers me most of all is that Luke doesn't seem to be accomplishing much of anything. As we've said many times, Luke has other gifts besides the Force, so I would like to see him successfully accomplish something.

    While he might not be quite in his element with dignitaries and government officials, Luke is also a character who seems to be able to adapt to situations and to get along with people. He didn't seem all that uncomfortable even in that meeting with the pilots on Yavin IV when he was fresh off of the farm.





    MasterSkywalker86 : I felt Zahn overlook some things such as Luke not bringing his blaster along which felt off.

    Luke didn't bring his blaster? He brought his blaster with him even in TESB when he went to Dagobah and Bespin. If he was still using it then, why wouldn't he use it even earlier in the timeline?


    I also felt he relied a bit much on his Force powers than he would at this point.

    Luke hasn't used Force powers so far in what I've read. BUT, I don't think Luke SHOULD be using the Force at this time. He knew VERY LITTLE about the Force at this time. Ben Kenobi had died before teaching him much of anything, and he was still a while away from meeting Yoda. Luke couldn't do much of anything with the Force at the beginning of TESB, so he definitely shouldn't be able to do much in CoO.
  8. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    Child wait til you finish CoO to properly judged Luke's role, though I feel Zahn takes the issues from Allegiance and corrects them but then adds some new ones to CoO when it comes to Luke. To my knowledge he doesn't do a whole lot in the first couple of chapters. It's not til later where he has a few good moments. where are you in the book ?
  9. marmkid Jedi Master



    I didn’t read Allegiance, so I don’t know how they compared. I did feel Luke was pretty in character in CoO, just maybe slightly off in some spots.

    Relying on his Force powers, I agree completely. In ESB, we are introduced to him basically just carrying his lightsaber as a tool, and just starting to learn to use TK. That doesn’t seem to be someone who would rely on his Force powers yet, as he isn’t comfortable or confident in them




    Thanks! It’s just been a busy summer overall, and work has me swamped for several months now

    Plus we have had a lull with no new books so I have fallen a bit behind

    I agree how Luke seemed to adapt quickly in ANH. I think the difference with CoO is that it is during a relative down time. Luke, at this stage in his life/career, seemed to thrive best under pressure and when he just had to react and not had time to overthink things. In CoO, he seems to basically have a mission with nothing pressing, so he has too much time to overthink the details in an area that he is not yet comfortable, diplomacy, compared to combat, where he has a more natural feel for it at that time

    But I do think, even with all that, he shouldn’t have been quite as clueless as he was made out to be at times.
    colojedi7 likes this.
  10. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    Marmkid

    I didn’t read Allegiance, so I don’t know how they compared. I did feel Luke was pretty in character in CoO, just maybe slightly off in some spots.

    they really kind of downplay Luke's resourcefulness from ANH to the point Obi-Wan got fed up with Luke not figuring out what to do and decided to do it his ownself. It wouldn't have been bad if Luke actually did something useful in the book to counter this but he ends up looking like a bumpkin than the "rebel hero".

    Relying on his Force powers, I agree completely. In ESB, we are introduced to him basically just carrying his lightsaber as a tool, and just starting to learn to use TK. That doesn’t seem to be someone who would rely on his Force powers yet, as he isn’t comfortable or confident in them

    I think if it was balanced with him using his blaster first and then use his developing Force powers minimally it would have made much more sense. Cause his use of the Force is consisent during this era and the book.....but the fact he relies on the Force solely doesn't make sense.
  11. Jedi Ben Jedi Grand Master

    A brief tangent: I finished X-Wing: Mercy Kill and do recommend that people get it.

    Sure, it's hardback and it's not without a couple of flaws, but it is, for the most part, exactly the kind of book a lot of us have been saying we've wanted for years:

    Character piece? Check
    No apocalyptic crisis? Check.
    Clearly defined division between heroes and villains? Check
    Effective use of continuity? Check
    Fun to read? Check

    Also, don't buy it now and it might be the last X-Wing book we get!

    Too bad, it can't extend to a Luke guest appearance!

    My review is in the book thread.
  12. ChildofWinds Jedi Master

    MasterSkywalker86 : Child wait til you finish CoO to properly judged Luke's role, though I feel Zahn takes the issues from Allegiance and corrects them but then adds some new ones to CoO when it comes to Luke.

    Yes, you're right: It's not fair to judge a book or a characterization until I finish the whole book. But I've read more than a third of the book, and Luke hasn't been 'onscreen' very much.








    marmkid: I didn’t read Allegiance, so I don’t know how they compared. I did feel Luke was pretty in character in CoO, just maybe slightly off in some spots.

    I felt that Luke was REALLY poorly characterized in Allegiance. He did absolutely nothing. Ben Kenobi actually did things FOR Luke instead of instructing him and then allowing Luke to accomplish something himself. I didn't expect Luke to do anything with the Force, actually, but neither did I expect Luke to be portrayed as rather inept and clueless. The guy had no ideas and couldn't seem to do anything. Luke is supposed to be a multi-talented individual even without the Force, but you certainly wouldn't know it to read his parts in Allegiance. If you didn't know this character from the films, you would have thought he was a simpleton and a country bumpkin.



    Plus we have had a lull with no new books so I have fallen a bit behind

    This is true. There hasn't been anything new with Luke for a very long time now, so there hasn't been much to talk about.

    Did you hear that there will be a book about Luke and a book about Leia coming out in the future? Unfortunately, it will be yet another Rebellion era book, which means that Luke won't be able to use the Force in a story again. There will also be a new comic book, called Star Wars, but it too will be Rebellion-era. While I' m always happy to hear about new Luke stories, I think the Rebellion era is the wrong timeframe to place new Luke stories. That era is already saturated, and since I prefer the combination of the Jedi Knight/Master and the "Farmboy", I'm not all that thrilled about the stories being set in an era when we can only get the "Farmboy" without the Jedi. :(







    MasterSkywalker86: they really kind of downplay Luke's resourcefulness from ANH to the point Obi-Wan got fed up with Luke not figuring out what to do and decided to do it his ownself.

    Yes, and I really HATED this! And it happened multiple times too. It was especially annoying when Obi-wan ended up actually punching in those numbers himself. It made Luke look like a total idiot!

    It wouldn't have been bad if Luke actually did something useful in the book to counter this but he ends up looking like a bumpkin than the "rebel hero".

    EXACTLY!!!!
    And I definitely agree that Luke shouldn't be relying on Force powers at this point. He doesn't really have any Force skill to speak of!

    Cause his use of the Force is consisent during this era and the book.....but the fact he relies on the Force solely doesn't make sense.

    I agree!








    Jedi Ben: Character piece? Check
    No apocalyptic crisis? Check.
    Clearly defined division between heroes and villains? Check
    Effective use of continuity? Check
    Fun to read? Check

    This *does* sound pretty good! Too bad we can't also put a check by "Luke makes a Guest Appearance". :(



    And sadly, in the thread about which Big Three character should die, Luke is winning. :mad:

    Poor Luke! I would say that of the Big Three characters he is the most relevant, interesting, and necessary, but in the poll, most of the people participating have chosen Luke as the Big Three character that should die first. :( That is SO sad!!!!!!

    I don't want any of them to be killed off, but I think that Luke should definitely NOT be the one to be killed.
  13. Jedi Ben Jedi Grand Master

    I'm pretty much distinct from the rest of you on this point, but amping Luke's power level up didn't really do him any favours in character terms. He seems to be used more in a Luke Smash mode due to it and, while Luke's many things, he ain't the Hulk! This singular element has come to eclipse the rest of the character, with the result he's less interesting and so a prime candidate in people's perception to be axed.

    Then there's the moral purity angle that comes up, I'm half convinced if ROTJ was done now Luke would be crucified for coming up with a plan to infiltrate Jabba's palace that used guile and deceit. Hiding a lightsaber in R2? That's not heroic enough, he needs to be completely overt and.... get shot by numerous lasers due to being such an overt idiot. There does seem to be this expectation that Luke must be able to come up with a morally perfect plan to resolve situations like Jacen or Abeloth or whoever. Yet the story is Star Wars, wars involve killing, wars require the breakdown of morality to the point where war is no longer the least worst option! While there's a desire for more wars, there seems far greater restriction placed on the heroes' ability to fight them. The result seems to be either a paralysed Luke or one active but deemed too aggressive and so 'dark'. And now, in SW, if you're a force-user, it seems just having a bad day and getting really hacked off is enough to send you to the dark side! I mean, Luke kills the entire Noghri hit squad sent after him in HTTE, he does it with much reluctance, he tries other options, but once he's out of cards and decides it, those Noghri had no chance in hell. It's the kind of response he'd be crucified over now.
  14. Iron_Lord Jedi Grand Master

    That's exactly what Zahn thought- which was why he provided a reason why Luke using that level of power was a Bad Thing, in the Hand of Thrawn trilogy- and tried to bring Luke "back down to normal".

    Wouldn't necessarily say that. Luke's reluctance- Luke's recognition that he's down to his last option- was probably why he wasn't criticised at the time.

    Luke getting dangerously angry and full of hate- like when Vader provokes him "If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will" - that's when he's in greatest moral danger. Just him being sneaky isn't a problem.
  15. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    Child

    But I've read more than a third of the book, and Luke hasn't been 'onscreen' very much.


    I believe things start to pick up for Luke after he plays diplomat a little while in the Imperial controlled planet.


    Yes, and I really HATED this! And it happened multiple times too. It was especially annoying when Obi-wan ended up actually punching in those numbers himself. It made Luke look like a total idiot!

    and I could have tolerate it with Luke doing something else on his own to counter it, as you'll see in CoO. Obi-wan IMO wasn't really teaching Luke much in Allegiance to begin with, he play more like guardian angel than jedi Force spirit.

    Jedi Ben

    I'm pretty much distinct from the rest of you on this point, but amping Luke's power level up didn't really do him any favours in character terms. He seems to be used more in a Luke Smash mode due to it and, while Luke's many things, he ain't the Hulk! This singular element has come to eclipse the rest of the character, with the result he's less interesting and so a prime candidate in people's perception to be axed.

    I don't think so Ben, for starters we don't usually get to see Luke do powerful things on a regular basis. heck FOTJ had hardly any wow moments aside of him punching a hole in ABeloth's face and freeing Callista's Force spirit, more Superman than Hulk. as we have seen in Bantam Luke was handicapped by injuries more so than displaying his abilities. That's the misconception from Bantam that Luke was all powerful when clearly he wasn't. Still during those moments of power we do get to see him utizlize it creative ways using the Black hole and pushing onto the Vong tank he couldn't detect in Force was a good stragety, building Vader's Fortress brick by brick is something we have never seen a jedi do before. Even in DN when Luke fights uber Raynar, sure Skywalker is the most powerful of the two but he didn't rely solely on his power in the fight, he rely on his wits and experience and took down Raynar in a few pages rather than have a power struggle with his old student. One of best things about Luke is yes he inherited his father's abilities but he has channeled that with Obi-wan's wisdom.


    Then there's the moral purity angle that comes up, I'm half convinced if ROTJ was done now Luke would be crucified for coming up with a plan to infiltrate Jabba's palace that used guile and deceit. Hiding a lightsaber in R2? That's not heroic enough, he needs to be completely overt


    I don't think the scene in ROTJ had any contradictions with Luke being a moral character, playing it smart and being a moral compass aren't mutually exculsive traits. How many times did he warn Jabba ? I wanna say four times including the hologram. For instance lets say Luke comes in and with Leia and Lando kill all of Jabba's thugs the overt way, one they might not know where Han was(Jabba could have taken him away in the sail barge or hidden him), two they don't know Jabba's traps, and three they were there just to free Han and only kill those that got in their way. Regardless they ended up killing most of Jabba's gang empire in the sail Barge along with the Hutt himself but Luke did warn him. ;)

    also Apocalyspe has a great scene where Luke and the Jedi effective take out 1000 sith with no casualties, using stealth and mercy. He gives a warning to every sith sabotuer

    The moral purity issue wouldn't come up with Luke as much if say Yoda and Obi-wan were shown to have dealt with the same or similar struggles that Luke endured. Dark Empire was a great story but how many have misinterpreted that Luke's intent was to fall to the DS and serve the Emperor when in reality he went uncover to learn Palpatine's weaknesses and to exploit it. Did he get lost in the DS and was he in over his head ? sure, he didn't account that Sidious can subtley mind control you over time but Luke made the best of a bad situation. Him commiting sucide would have not serve any purpose and probably damned the galaxy. I'm convinced the Force had Luke's destiny in bringing back the Order, while Leia's was defintly only in spearheading the NR leadership.

    then there is the issue of some feeling his portrayal in FOTJ was more bitter where I would argued he was more realistic about people due to his experiences. This doesn't mean he still didn't retain his idealism about everybody being good hence him allowing Vestara to become a jedi. But admittedly after 40 years of dealing with Sith, one could never be too cautious.

    Also killing Lumiya usually comes up as an issue. Yet as seen with Mace a sith or jedi are never truly unarmed and it wasn't like Luke didn't offer Lumiya a shot at redemption before. The problem is the way Traviss depicts it as a controversal scene where heroes do bad things and villians do good things.....flawless logic :oops: Luke beheads a "unarmed" Lumiya but in the context I can't see Luke wait idly by when he knows his wife killer is out there. Usually killing a hero's loved one is usually their breaking point but as we see in the rest of LotF Luke doesn't fall in fact he makes certain he avoids Jacen just in case. As you pointed out it is war and sometimes the most moral of characters have to make the hardest choices or ones they regret. To be fair to Luke we know much more about his life than Obi-wan and Yoda's and he ended being the better jedi and saving the galaxy more times than I can recall.
  16. kataja Jedi Master

    I definitely agree we need Luke from all time eras. Still, as Rebellion era is the basis on what the later Luke is built on, I like the idea of if being rewrittem now we know what will happen. There is so many gaps left by the films and the Marvels. And IMO the Empire and Rebellion comics offered very good and relevant stories that put the later Lukeinto perspective.

    Interesting. So this was one of the events that actually makes Luke turn away from the Unfied Force?

    You nail it, MS. IMO he's lacking initiative so much it hurts! And yes, I can see this side of Luke too, straight from him accepting his Uncle's pleas and demands to stay and help on the farm - but again it should be balanced !

    Except that in taht dratted book he doesn't feel at ease on the battlefield either... o_O

    Tim!!! Arggh!!! You can do so much better!!!

    Exactly!!! Of coirse it's based on Lucas probably not quite knowing what to generally do with the Force either, but for a starters, all Luke has learned is to reach out with his feelings. He'd probably train with his lightsaber a lot, though, as it would basically be his only link to his old Master.

    That's a point... [face_thinking] Very good, actually. It still annoyes me this wasn't balanced by his otehr abilities, but it could work as an "excuse."

    It's interesting that Allegiance didn't bother me taht much. I think it might, after reading CoO, though...

    I'll boy it next time I get to town.

    Luke cheated first! ;)

    Nice points, MS. I wonder how much of the concept that Luke was oh-so powerfull actually came up after Zahn plainright says this in SOTP? And shows is a s a very bad thing indeed. At leasts much of Mara's scolding issues have been accepted as canon, even if the books we have, don't support it much.

    Which was so cool!!!!

    Exactly. Which is where it becomes interesting. But of course, SW is more about fun than about interesting... :p
  17. Jedi Ben Jedi Grand Master

    Sounds like reading LOTF-FOTJ is an exercise in frustration with some cool moments and you know what reminds me of? NJO. It's pretty much the same template, same structure. I guess the difference is I'm far less tolerant of that in the stories, I don't want to have a book that's 50% bad, 25% middling and 25% good, I want the final element to be 100% and nothing else. And there are SW books that do achieve that but they're now quite rare and they're certainly not in this era!

    I'm convinced the DR line of Luke being too powerful in Bantam is fiction, as I don't understand how anyone could draw that conclusion from the evidence material!
  18. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    JediBen

    Sounds like reading LOTF-FOTJ is an exercise in frustration with some cool moments and you know what reminds me of? NJO. It's pretty much the same template, same structure.

    you have no idea :p To generalize which admittedly will be arguable, LotF had Luke demonstrating a nice range of "wow" moments but they counter this with a more inconsistent portrayal of the character. Luke is literally speechless when his son said you killed millions of civies of the Death Star(really ?!??!? he has contemplated the thought for 20 years), despite knowing how to detect force cloak individuals(see DN) like Alema Rar he doesn't sense her in the attack of Tempest not even a twinge of something odd when facing Lumiya, despite Lumiya trying to sucide bomb him Luke decides to shakes hands with his would be murderer and is shock that he is betrayed, Luke is in action mode in Inferno but then contemplates sucide in Fury(could be true of some mourners but i dunno), Luke in Revelations can't explain what the Sith are despite fighting them for the most of his life.

    FotJ is somewhat the opposite, they have a more in line portrayal of Luke with some good character moments like in Conviction but a lack of good "wow" action moments for the character.

    I guess the difference is I'm far less tolerant of that in the stories, I don't want to have a book that's 50% bad, 25% middling and 25% good, I want the final element to be 100% and nothing else. And there are SW books that do achieve that but they're now quite rare and they're certainly not in this era!

    I agree, hence why I don't trust any series in EU at this point. I rather have a stand alone book that is100% good, and a bunch more like them. it'll be a while before they can win me over with a duology or even a trilogy.

    I'm convinced the DR line of Luke being too powerful in Bantam is fiction, as I don't understand how anyone could draw that conclusion from the evidence material!


    maybe on the off chance they could demonstrate this in future NR era books. As a few things don't add up with both Han's and Mara's worry of Luke using his powers with what is provided currently. also it doesn't look good for the creative team when their complaint is Luke was too powerful. As seen in Invasion, TUF, or DN, you just up the ante for what the hero has to face in terms of numbers.

    Kataja

    Interesting. So this was one of the events that actually makes Luke turn away from the Unfied Force?


    you mean the Potentium view, then yes. it's a plot hole though in how Luke decides to follow that from TUF on.



    Nice points, MS. I wonder how much of the concept that Luke was oh-so powerfull actually came up after Zahn plainright says this in SOTP? And shows is a s a very bad thing indeed. At leasts much of Mara's scolding issues have been accepted as canon, even if the books we have, don't support it much.


    hey if they want to go with that Luke was oh so powerful I wouldn't mind them making new books demonstrating this in the NR era :p


    Exactly. Which is where it becomes interesting. But of course, SW is more about fun than about interesting... :p

    we had too much interesting and not enough fun IMO
  19. Jedi Ben Jedi Grand Master

    I'd disagree what Luceno laid out in TUF = Potentium view, Luke was very critical of that.
  20. MasterSkywalker86 Jedi Master

    agreed, it's a plothole in DN. it just doesn't add up when basically he still belives in a dark side in TUF and not in TJK for most of the book.

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