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Lit TCW Continuity Cabaret: Now Showing Season 5! (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Expanded Universe' started by Barriss_Coffee, May 30, 2012.

  1. instantdeath Jedi Grand Master

    Seems like Kyle is on Cronal's bad side. Not only does he kill his daughter, he also kills his favorite freaky experiments

    Now that I think about it, if Stover were to write Kyle Katarn, the Star Wars universe may just implode.
    Zeta1127 and ESg like this.
  2. blackmyron Jedi Master

    Timothy Zahn made the point at the Del Rey panel that the stories shouldn't be treated as an omniscient viewpoint, but rather like RL history books - which can, and often do, contradict each other. (Hence the quote in my signature).
    ceiranharmony likes this.
  3. ceiranharmony Jedi Master

    Yeah Prophetess Sariss is a cool character indeed but we had cronal survive Shadows of Mindor long before Mindor was written already, so it never was a question that his death would be final or not. He from the start was to survive this and Stover knew that.
  4. MercenaryAce Jedi Master

    That was a joke really. I was going for the silliest solution I could think of.

    Anywho, some interesting tidbits in the trailer:

    I found a site that pointed out that the two people Ashoka kicked on the train are dressed like Coursicant Police from Bounty Hunter and have "PD" written on their backs. Very interesting I think.

    The Republic Gunships are in the same red and white diplomatic colors as the cruiser.

    Above the ships Anakin is jumping out of is what looks like the kind of Skipray Blastboat you see in Star Wars Galaxies. Or saw anyway.

    It's Cato Nemodia. With both kinds of bridge cities as well, interesting.
  5. ceiranharmony Jedi Master

    That is actually how I started to see Star Wars and the EU ever since the first conflict arose between two sources. And it is a brilliant approach I wrote an essay on once. I like that Zahn and other authors approach it like that.It also explains how TCW, or young reader books can have kids defeat major enemies where in adult novels all would be/is much harder and more bloody. not only is it history books and some conflicting accounts of history, it also is different levels of history books for kids or adults written so that powers, events, danger, etc. is scaled up or down depending on what readership there is. I so love whenever an official author acknowledges this :)
    Ulicus likes this.
  6. ceiranharmony Jedi Master

    Anybody here seen Expendables 2 already? Well.. the introduction of Chuck Norris in it is what I imagine Kyle Katarn to be if he ever were to appear on tv/cinema for Star Wars. Just brilliant!
  7. Gorefiend Jedi Grand Master

    ESg, RC-1991 and ceiranharmony like this.
  8. instantdeath Jedi Grand Master

    Fett's actually fought Katarn before, and that was before he learned how to use the laser sword :)

    And yeah, while Expendables 2 isn't really my kind of movie, it was hard not to laugh at the Chuck Norris scene.

    To be fair, I also feel that Dash Rendar should have suffered a fiery end in Shadows of the Empire.

    The main thing that annoys me with Star Wars as a whole is that often, characters individual stories are left unfinished just to have them available in future stories, even though a vast majority of them are never used. Take, for example, Dash Rendar, Cronal, pretty much all of the bounty hunters in ESB minus Boba Fett and IG-88, and so on. In Cronal's case, if he had a definite end, it wouldn't annoy me so much. As it is now, we get a spectacularly written death scene, later find out it's a "just kidding" scenario, have him do some stuff, then drop off the face of the Earth and never be heard from again. I can't be the only one who finds that unsatisfying narrative.

    That's, ultimately, why I feel we get a much more satisfying character arc if Cronal dies in the Battle of Mindor, and another enemy, perhaps impersonating him, is the antagonist of The Dark Forces Saga. But honestly, it's an issue so small that it barely matters in the long run.
  9. ceiranharmony Jedi Master

    I agree of course, if they survive, use them and make them great and have an even greater death.. or story. see Jacen Solo... had he never returned from his sojourn his story would have been cooler and preserve TUF's notion of mystery jacen.. have a later generation find out he found Mortis and took up a Father role there.. but no he had to go darkside.. d'oh. still at least that gave us his at long last finally happy lovelive with Tenel Ka however short it might have been later then.
  10. Gorefiend Jedi Grand Master

    Irek kills him, as he is the Jedi who trains him on behalf of Ireks mother and during that duell gives Irek the wound that would lead to him becoming Lord Nyax.

    The Secret Ending of the Game always had him surviving so I really did not mind that one too much.
  11. instantdeath Jedi Grand Master

    Did he? Wookieepedia lied to me :(

    And that's precisely why I hate Rendar surviving. He was meant to die, but survived because of the perception that the main character of a video game dying is too much of a downer ending. Now he survived... to play absolutely no part in any future stories.

    Then again, I guess characters to have lives outside the stories. Still, it doesn't help that the explanation for Rendar surviving is a bit hokey.
  12. ESg Jedi Grand Master

    The game came out the same time as the novel

    Hell Perry even shows him in the End of Shadows of the Empire Evolution
  13. instantdeath Jedi Grand Master

    From what I understand, Perry's original intent was to kill Rendar, but the writers of the video game ultimately decided that killing the player character would be anti-climactic. They then ran that by Perry, and he was okay with it, and subsequently included it in Evolution. It was a collaborative process, definitely, but I personally prefer the original intent.

    Of course, I also am really annoyed by Dash Rendar, so that may play into my desire to see him dead ;)
  14. Barriss_Coffee Retired Sith Lord

    Completely off-topic, but I believe Cronal's fate is still ambiguous. The Nyax business in the NJO was a rather half-baked tale at best... although one I'd like to see elaborated on in future novels, and not left to the sourcebook fix-it men (Fry, Wallace, Peña) to clean up.

    (Not that I don't think the fix-it men would do an outstanding job, but glaring ambiguities in the novels should be the responsibility of the novelists to address...)
  15. Ghost83 Jedi Knight

    Increasingly you have to question even major events and descriptions of places and organizations within the EU. When it comes to stuff like the CIS government bodies, Mandalorian culture, and Ryloth, that would be some pretty shoddy historical research.

    The appeal of a cohesive universe is that the stories intertwine and add to the the development of the history of the universe and the characters. Character A does certain things because it was established in a story a while back that character B was a total jerk to him. The best example is that of Fett's stint as a Journeyman Protector on Concord Dawn. That was established in a short story years ago.It's a piece of Fett's character and adds to who he is as a person. As does the fact that his father is the last of the True Mandalorians and was from Concord Dawn. As does the fact that his father's mentor was Jaster Mereel. It establishes motive in Boba's character. It's a man who grew up without a father and who is trying to establish himself as a man by exploring his father's past home and culture. If we did as the Clone Wars implies and just have Boba be the son of a bounty hunter that wears Mandalorian armor then most of that characterization disappears as does some motivation for reading many of the Fett stories revolving around his time as a Journeyman Protector. The recent comic that delves into the fallout of those events is pretty cool, but the impetus to buy it might disappear for some fans if they suddenly learn that it really has no bearing on Fett's character development in the films or cartoon. What stories do you include in the timeline that helps you understand the motivation and growth of characters? How does one know if they're all standalones or not?

    The early Trek books were standalone stories that had no bearing on the TV show or movies. Some stories were really good and some were not. Fans knew where Paramount stood on those books. There was no corporate shenanigans to try to appeal tp all the fans and get more money. Many fans who had no desire to read "what ifs" stayed away from those books and Paramount and that was that. If I had to peg what irks me with LFL is that even after they finally admit that the EU is a "what if" (after so many years of vagueness on the issue) they still try to maintain the illusion of some sort of coherent universe where each story has an impact on the other. That's simply untrue. Fans who end up buying their comics and books and don't pay attention to every LFL announcement as those on this board are prone to do, do so under the illusion that they are buying stories within a coherent universe and not standalone stories that have no relevance beyond their own boundaries. prop up the myth of a unified I think that's pretty dishonest marketing and it's one reason that I've lost a lot of respect for LFL. Sell standalone "what if" stories if you want, but stop trying to prop up the myth of a unified continuity to your customers.
    instantdeath and ESg like this.
  16. blackmyron Jedi Master

    That's exactly why I don't buy Trek books. And no, I don't see LFL admitting the EU is a "what if".

    If you're taking an absolutist approach, I don't know what to tell you. Even worlds with a single author are inconsistent - and yes, even on major details. Take Tolkien. Or Doyle. Or any number of different authors. And shared universes are always going to have inconsistencies. Because they're written by different people who have different ideas about the universe and characters. And the ideas will evolve with time - that's a given for any setting. If you have some example of a setting that Star Wars should emulate, by all means suggest it.
  17. RC-1991 Jedi Master

    Don't even get me started on inconsistency in Elder Scrolls. And that's a universe that takes pride in its lore, too.
    ESg and blackmyron like this.
  18. Grand Admiral Jello Community and Expanded Universe mod-type person

    Yeah, but they do stupid things like the Warp in the West, the chim stuff, and that business with the enantiomorph. They basically say it's all mythopoesis and handwave it away--and in that world, it can work. The EU doesn't have that luxury.
  19. ESg Jedi Grand Master

    Highlander Continuity nuff said
    Gorefiend likes this.
  20. Ulicus Jedi Grand Master

    There should have been only one.

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