Clone Wars The Even Piell Centre for Canon and Continuity Catastrophes - Please use spoiler tags!

Until I see a T-canon work that doesn't disregard previous canon the same way TCW does, I am going to assume that is the case.

I was fairly certain Darth Plagueis didn't based on what I have heard, End Game was the question mark. I guess I can just disregard the very end of End Game then, if I ever end up reading it, since I already have a copy of the six film novelizations of the saga.

Half the annoyances of TCW is its referencing and effects on the rest of the EU. Maul and Mortis are the two worst offenders.

I think they both acknowledge Maul's new backstory as a "Dathomir Nightbrother" or whatever, but Darth Plagueis ends before anyone knew Maul was still alive, so his survival isn't mentioned in it, and "End Game" ends as he's falling into the pit, thinking that he will survive this and return to get his revenge, but neither story shows him alive afterward. Besides TCW tie-in material, I think so far the only EU source to feature Maul after his bisection is the YA biography The Wrath of Darth Maul.

You mean the fact that EU compensates for changes made by TCW?

Those are space ducks.

"I understand you're quite the pilot yourself. Piloting and navigation aren't hereditary, but a number of the things that can combine to make a good small-ship pilot are. Those you may have inherited. Still, even a duck has to be taught to swim."
"What's a duck?" Luke asked curiously.
"Never mind. In many ways, you know, you are much like your father."

(Page 77 of my Ep. IV paperback from 1977.)

No water on Tatooine for Ducks...

SPIDER DUCK

That rules.

Classic Star Wars FTW

Excellent, I don't have to completely disregard them, and, therefore, look forward to reading them both.

That is one freaky duck.

I don't have a problem with the rest of the EU referencing TCW. For instance, Abeloth was always going to be some sort of advanced or ascended being with what many assumed to be connections to the Celestials. For the authors of FotJ to tie Abeloth into the Ones, and bring all of them together with a competent if potentially not entirely accurate in-universe explanation of the Celestials, was most certainly a good thing. And Darth Plagueis managed to integrate Sidious' new acquisition of Maul from Dathomir seamlessly.

The problem is that EU references don't seem to be as reverse-compatible. Whereas EU authors work in elements from TCW in wonderful ways that truly contribute and build upon the universe, TCW takes EU elements and strips, molds, or twists them to fit their story whether they were needed or not. Often adding insult to injury by letting you know that it was added "for the fans".

I'm quite frankly surprised at the amount of vitriol towards Filoni that's being allowed in both this and the "Cabaret" thread considering past history. TCW is being produced by George Lucas personally and he has been involved in the production. Is it really so difficult to understand that of course it's going to clash with what's been "established" by the EU? It's not the first time either. Remember how we for almost eighteen years believed that the Mon Calamarians first contact with the outside galaxy was when the Empire invaded as per the WEG SW RPG Sourcebook? ROTS (and CW) showed that it wasn't the case. The backstory for Boba Fett which had been "established" by the EU was forced to be revised as AOTC hit the screen. Timothy Zahn's description of the Clone Wars in the Thrawn-trilogy was entirely inaccurate as were the dates and those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

While I could give you a long, detailed, and thoughtful response, what it ultimately boils down to is this: Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because contradictions have arisen in the past, doesn't mean new works have a free pass to make sweeping contradictions of their own. When people love, and perhaps more importantly pay money for a story, common sense should tell you to respect that story. Lucas and the writing team do not. Thus they are, rightly, criticized.

Yes, of course GL has a free pass to do anything he wants to do with his own creation and put anyone in charge of a production which he oversees. GL's productions sets the framework for the EU, that's how it's been from the start.

As far as "pay money" is concerned, I really don't see what that has to do with anything. I've been an EU reader for more than twenty years. I personally don't take everything in the EU as gospel and I also think that some elements of the EU have strayed from the movies (such as the later RC/and IC novels) that I consider those as "as ifs". I buy the novels etc. that I think I'll like and skip the rest. Heck, people are buying Star Trek novels which have no canon status whatsoever.

Lucas thinks he has a free pass. That doesn't excuse his disrespect toward the fan base that supports him, both intellectually and financially. And yes, it does matter that people pay money for these stories. Your own disregard for the EU is meaningless when you try to wager that against the untold millions fans have shelled out for new stories that they expect will have a meaningful impact on the Star Wars universe. Lucas happily takes in every penny, but could care less about maintaining the product you purchased in the larger, unified narrative. And the Republic Commando novels? They work perfectly alongside the events of the movies, giving a wonderfully gritty look at the Clone Wars through the eyes of the common soldiers fighting it, and offer a previously untold side of the story when the Republic falls. If you're referring to their darker tone and pragmatic deconstruction of the era being a divergence from the films, good! It's a great thing when novels tread new ground; new ground is good ground, as many fans will agree. Simply regurgitating what the films have already covered is a perfect recipe for staleness. And do you know why your comparison to Star Trek fails? Because Star Wars fans were originally told, and to this day greatly enjoy, that Star Wars is a single encompassing universe where every story, no matter how large or small, matters in the grand scheme of things and is as canon as the rest.

Of course he has a free pass. The EU authors are playing in his sandbox and he wants to change the rules of the game then he of course has every right to do so.

I don't have a disregard for the EU. As I mentioned, I've been an avid EU reader for more than twenty years (more like thirty if comics, RPG etc. are included) and I used to debate the canon issue until I was blue in my face.

That some elements of the EU are invalidated or must be reinterpreted isn't new and I think the Sansweet/Cerasi analogy of the EU being a "window" is very apt.

I can't see into the head of GL, but does he really consider the movies plus the EU as being a "unified narrative"? Judging from what he's said on the matter that's clearly not the case. And why would he care about it personally? Don't forget that Licensing, despite GL's position, at least has one person hired to maintain continuity and my guess is that it's their job to make such considerations.

No, gritty or not, I don't believe that particular author had a very good grasp of Star Wars.

Yes, the EU is indeed official canon, but it's canon insofar as it doesn't interfere with what GL wants or takes SW and it has never been declared canon on the same level as the movies.

Those are good examples to know, thanks for bringing that up. I knew there was some EU that the PT killed, but you just doubled the examples I know.

Personally speaking, to me the issue is whether the criticism is equal across SW or whether TCW gets picked on.

I've read they didn't even try to keep SW comics and the like all in one continuity when the films were actually coming out (check out Jabba in the 1977 comics), and that the official EU continuity thing started in the 90's and rubbed out some previous EU.

Right there, you could make all the same arguments. There had been millions of SW fans spending millions on SW merchandise over a period of years, and some of what they had invested in just got wiped out.

Then the PT and CW micro series come out, and that tramples a lot of the new EU continuity that was supposed to be official this time.

A second time in SW history, you can make the same argument: millions of SW fans spending millions on SW merchandise over a period of years, and some of what they had invested in just got wiped out.

Now TCW comes along part-way into the third round of "our EU continuity is official for realz this time" and tramples some stuff, creating a fourth round, but the fourth time around it must mean the creation of an AU? You could be a 90's EU die-hard who still thinks Timothy Zahn's vision of the Clone Wars is "real" and the PT is an AU by the same logic.

I think that if Timothy Zahn had been privy to George Lucas's plans for the PT, TT would have been perfect.