Discussion in 'The Movies' started by TaradosGon, May 20, 2012.
I can't express how fond I am of you right now, Tarados.
I don't think Sidious knew Padme would actually issue a Vote of No Confidence in Chancellor Valorum's leadership (he's been our strongest supporter?). It's possible he thought of it on the spot once she got to Coruscant.
If Padme goes back to Coruscant and manages to actually convince the Senate that the Trade Federation has illegally invaded Naboo (even if it takes a while), Valorum now has the ability to act and smack down the Trade Federation, dealing a blow to his enemies and making him look strong. Palpatine wants Maul to find her, take her back to Naboo and force her to sign the treaty to make it legal so Valorum can do nothing and look ineffectual.
When Padme shows up and gets rid of Valorum herself, the game changes.
Thats a great pount about kamino and totally makes sense.
just the sort of thing that lucas et al should have caught before it was released
The erased archives was meant to highlight some sort of conspiracy within the Jedi Order, so not having it in does not highlight the fact that there was a traitor who has access to the archives and tampered with them.
The fact that Sifo-Dyas ordered the army without permission of the council shows that.
How do we know that he did that? The movie never says.
Uh, yes it does. Mace says so: "Whoever made that order did not have the permission of the council."
I think he means the movie never says it was actually him as opposed to an impostor.
Well that's true, but also immaterial in considering whether the whole erasure of Kamino from the archives added anything to the movie but play time.
Well then, what purpose does it serve? The whole Jedi conspiracy thing goes nowhere, and all the conversation with Yoda and the younglings did was make Obi-Wan look silly. If he had just reported to Yoda that someone had tampered with the archives, and then if they had followed up on the whole Sifo-Dyas conspiracy plot, then it might have had meaning, but as-is you could have cut the whole sequence from the film with no ill effects.
For those of you who have read the relevant EU material, did any of it say how Obi-Wan and the Jedi knew Sifo-Dyas was killed?
I thought Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas in secret and kept his body hidden away, using his blood for a transfusion and giving his lightsaber to Grievous.
I'm not aware of anything that explains it. But it may have just been inferred if he disappeared and never returned. Or they maybe just sensed it.
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, I believe, mentions that Dooku and Sifo-Dyas were close friends and worked on the clone project together in secret, and Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas because he knew too much/as his Dark Side initiation. It doesn't mention how the Jedi found out; I just assumed that Dooku, who was still considered a Jedi at the time, made up some story about Sifo-Dyas being murdered by someone else, and pretended to be broken up about it.
FiveThreeOhNine: That's Visionairies, which may or may not even be canonical now as TCW has pretty well junked it's story about Grievous' transformation.
Which is a shame.
His body may or may not have been present, I suppose; we know from ROTS that Yoda knows when Jedi die.
I forgot about Grievous' supposed origin story in TCW. Too bad, because I loved his original story so much I wanted it to be Anakin's story.
What in ROTS makes you think Yoda knows when Jedi die?
Order 66 is too extreme to be used as an example of that, don't you think?
Which is weird, because you'd think that if the Jedi never found a body they wouldn't be so quick to assume he was even dead, much less murdered. I guess that's another way of saying I don't think the comic matches the intent of the AOTC script. ( On the other hand, if we were to go by the comic, it would give us reason to assume the Jedi didn't know a precise time of death for Sifo-Dyas and were just going by the last time he was seen before his disappearance. )
I don't see why it'd be 'too extreme'. He seems to be pretty good about keeping tabs on Jedi when they're on the far side of the galaxy; Anakin in AOTC, for one. There's also an EU example; both Yoda and Darth Sidious know when one of the Jedi sent to Yinchorr dies in Jedi Council: Acts Of War.
I'm kind of undecided which version of Grievous' backstory I like; the TCW one is much more in keeping with the cowardly Grievous from ROTS, but the Grievous story from Visionairies is pretty clearly a proto-Vader.
Well, during Order 66 many Jedi die at the same time. In AOTC, Anakin was obviously in great pain and kills many Tuskens. I think those are extreme examples and more likely to be sensed as a heavy "disturbance in the Force" rather than just another death.
If Sifo-Dyas was killed by Dooku, it was probably quick and surrounded by the dark side.
But I suppose Yoda probably would sense the death of a Council member.