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Topic:
ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Coruscant
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 6:58am
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
- Date Edited:
11/14/06 6:59am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Coruscant
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What I always thought is that a Nimitz (and carriers, in general) is about two things, 1.) utility (moving airfields) and 2.) strength projection.
And, I think, a lot of people are fooled by the strength projection element combined with the whole sci-fi like feel of moving airfields.
Souderwan: Do you think submarines are around to stay (w/ legitimate, high utility-factor) even after we colonize other planets of a habitable nature? This in mind that we've already used submarine technology to plumb the secrets and mysteries of the ocean depths (by the time we go to other planets)?
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s65horsey
Title: EUC Manager
SWC Lil' Sis
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 8:29am
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Siths posted:
Is it true women like men in uniform?
Yes. 
Souderwan Is there really such a thing as a Los Angeles-class submarine? I'm currently reading the new Clancy splinter cell book and it has a submarine scene in it. (But its not written by Clancy and you said anything not written by two authors is crap so I was curious). Thanks sweets!!
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 8:51am
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Is there really such a thing as a Los Angeles-class submarine?
Yes.
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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PrincessChattyCathy
Title: JCC Mod of Pinkness
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 9:30am
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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When out to sea say for 6 months. How do you get your mail? Do you have to wait until you land somewhere and if your mission is secret how do they know where you will land?
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Tiger's mom, Lemminglord's BSU Broncos 2007 Fiesta Bowl Champions in one of the most amazing games ever A piece of my heart is in Richmond, VA Souderwan is my hero Ban No Ban Game 10 VIP
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 3:27pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Do you also lol @ "SSN" by Tom Clancy?
Have you met any charismatic Russian captians who ask their XO "Vashishly, give me one ping, and one ping only"?
E_S
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In this truth he knew himself to be.
From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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Exeter
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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What's your opinion on the recent news that a Chinese submarine surfaced near a US Navy battle group (the Kitty Hawk, specifically) in the vacinity of Okinawa? How common is something like that, and what sort of procedure would you follow on a submarine if faced with a similar situation? Obviously you can't give out standard operating procedures, but I was just wondering if such an occurence would be approached as a benign misunderstanding first, or if it would be assumed that there was a potential threat and react accordingly?
The CINCPAC (or whatever they're calling Admiral Fallon these days) said that the reports of the sub stalking the battle group were alarmist and sensational - go figure - but he admitted that the possiblity for escalation was certainly there.
I know that China's been developing their nuclear submarine program lately with sea-trials of second-strike Ballistic missile capable vessels. It seems like such an encounter would be pretty tense for any sub or topside ship crew, misunderstanding or otherwise.
BBC: US warns on China sub encounter for those who hadn't seen the story.
Wait, this is JCC.
What sort of guidelines and protocols are in place for a zombie attack while the sub is underway?
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 3:51pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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rocketscientist posted:
 When I was five I had a crush on the Submariner - what are you trying to say? 
Umm…that The Submariner > Aquaman
Ceethreepio posted:
Have you ever wanted to play Battleship while on duty?
Doesn’t everybody?
farraday posted:
As a military man you kill babies, since you're in a submarine do you find it easier to drown them or shoot a torpedo at them?
I prefer to launch TLAMs. It’s less personal and I don’t have to hear the screams. It’s upsetting. 
faraday posted:
Also, what non fiction books are a must for anyone interested in submarines and the baby killing mad men who crew them?
Great question!
Blind Man’s Bluff
The Silent War by John Craven (better than Blind Man’s Bluff but he really irked me throughout the book).
Jane’s Submarines (Jane’s is always pretty good)
Siths_Revenge posted:
Is it true women like men in uniform?
Seems like it. Especially when I’m in my whites. 
leia_naberrie posted:
Yes it does help although I would like a little more clarification.
Are the new modern telescopes visible? I remember from the old movies that you could always know where a submarine was if you looked in the right place and noticed it protuding from the ocean surface.
Yes, our periscopes still stick out of the water and are still visible. If you know precisely where to look at the right time, you’d see us. Of course, if you’re flying overhead, you’ll see our big black hull in clear water as well. There are techniques to minimize the chances of your scope being spotted that every good submariner employs, but the vulnerability is still there.
The Bigger Fish posted:
Apparently you can now track subs at a certain depth with satellites via their heat signature.
Or shouldn't I mention that?
With satellites? That’d be quite a feat. The variation in infrared signatures between the water and a submarine is not that great (a few degrees at most). With a high enough resolution infrared camera, you could theoretically be able to detect that variation. To do that with a satellite with all the atmospheric distortions you would have borders on an astounding possibility. Now don’t bring this up again.
Jabba-wocky posted:
When you guys loose a battle, do you broadcast a message to the enemy commander that says "You Sunk My Battle Boat!"
 Actually, that’s not that far off…
GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Question I. Have you ever read the book Nimitz-class by Patrick Robinson? It's about a stolen Russian Kilo-class submarine that snuck close to a CVBG and took down the CVN. If so, what'd you think of it?
I haven’t read Nimitz class but I’ve read his other books and he does a pretty good job. His later novels haven’t been particularly good, though. He and Clancy are the only novelists I know that manage to find a decent mix of submarine tactics and entertainment without going completely off the deep end (though they both do it from time to time).
PrincessChattyCathy posted:
I have a delicate question. So the submarine is full of men, men sometimes get horny. If you only get a two minute shower how do you get uh...unhorny? Is there any privacy? (I have a weird mind)
  You don’t pull punches on the “delicate” questions, do you?
Out of respect for my fellow submariners, I won’t directly address your question. However, we do have some privacy—our racks. Each rack has an individual curtain and affords a guy a place to sleep without too much interruption. What people do behind their rack curtains is entirely a private issue. 
It should also be noted that we love pulling into ports and meeting local girls. (not that I do that sort of thing…. )
Coruscant posted:
Souderwan: Do you think submarines are around to stay (w/ legitimate, high utility-factor) even after we colonize other planets of a habitable nature? This in mind that we've already used submarine technology to plumb the secrets and mysteries of the ocean depths (by the time we go to other planets)?
In two hundred years or so, assuming that we become a planet under a single government, we won’t necessarily need submarines and they’ll go away. Submarines are primarily a military vessel and will usually be employed for military purposes. If the military need goes away (i.e. world peace), then I can envision submarines staying around much longer after that. I think that’s what you’re asking.
s65horsey posted:
Souderwan Is there really such a thing as a Los Angeles-class submarine? I'm currently reading the new Clancy splinter cell book and it has a submarine scene in it. (But its not written by Clancy and you said anything not written by two authors is crap so I was curious). Thanks sweets!!
Yes, there is a Los Angeles-class submarine.
In active service in the U.S. now are several classes of submarines:
Fast Attacks (SSN):
Los Angeles Class (688)
Improved Los Angeles Class (688I)
Seawolf Class
Virginia Class
And then there is the Ohio Class (SSBN) submarines and the modified Ohio Class (SSGN) submarines which will take on traditional roles of SSNs.
PrincessChattyCathy posted:
When out to sea say for 6 months. How do you get your mail? Do you have to wait until you land somewhere and if your mission is secret how do they know where you will land?
We get our mail when we pull into port. Our port calls are not usually classified (though they sometimes are). In any case, our mail goes to our ISIC (Immediate Supervisor In Command) and they hold our mail for us. They always know where we will pull in and they get our mail to us that way. Our mail can also come to us via what’s called a BSP (brief stop for personnel) in which we surface and meet with a small boat or tug to either pick up or drop off personnel.
Ender_Sai posted:
Do you also lol @ "SSN" by Tom Clancy?
Every time!! That book absolutely cracked me up!
Ender_Sai posted:
Have you met any charismatic Russian captians who ask their XO "Vashishly, give me one ping, and one ping only"?
E_S
*chuckle* None of them sound quite as cool as Sean Connery. I did meet a couple Russian officers, though. They were pretty impressive (these guys live and breathe submarining).
-----signature-----
"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 4:03pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Glad to hear it. I met some RAN submariners, from the aforementioned Collins-class boats, who had read it. They lol'd too.
It's like bad fanfic. Really bad fanfic.
E_S
-----signature-----
In this truth he knew himself to be.
From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 5:30pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Exeter posted:
What's your opinion on the recent news that a Chinese submarine surfaced near a US Navy battle group (the Kitty Hawk, specifically) in the vacinity of Okinawa? How common is something like that, and what sort of procedure would you follow on a submarine if faced with a similar situation? Obviously you can't give out standard operating procedures, but I was just wondering if such an occurence would be approached as a benign misunderstanding first, or if it would be assumed that there was a potential threat and react accordingly?
Hmm...answering as carefully as I can here. I can honestly say that I've never witnessed something like that happening. I can also tell you that things could have gotten very ugly very quickly had they surfaced much closer than they did (5 miles is still close but it's not pull-out-the-guns-and-blast-them-out-of-the-water close). As for what we would do? Hard to say, honestly. If a US submarine was in the area in the middle of an exercise, who knows what could have happened? Worst case would have been a collision. It's unlikely anybody would have fired on anyone else (act of war and all) in international waters.
Note: I am NOT speaking for the US Navy here nor is what I'm about to say a reflection of any knowledge beyond what I read in the article itself.
Ok. From my perspective, I find it unlikely that the Chinese just happened to surface near a group of US warships by accident. Given that it wasn't likely accidental, one can only wonder why the Chinese would do such a thing. My only suppostition was that it was an attempt at a silent (and profound) message that our warships are vulnerable to the Chinese Navy (kind of a "coming out party").
Exeter posted:
I know that China's been developing their nuclear submarine program lately with sea-trials of second-strike Ballistic missile capable vessels. It seems like such an encounter would be pretty tense for any sub or topside ship crew, misunderstanding or otherwise.
Yes, it would be very intense. Submarines in the vicinity of other warships (submarines or otherwise) is always a cause for concern. In situations like that, you really have to rely on the cooler heads of COs to keep things from escalating out of control.
Ender_Sai posted:
Glad to hear it. I met some RAN submariners, from the aforementioned Collins-class boats, who had read it. They lol'd too.
It's like bad fanfic. Really bad fanfic.
E_S
*chuckle* Like the worst fanfic ever written!
-----signature-----
"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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PrincessChattyCathy
Title: JCC Mod of Pinkness
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 7:06pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Would you be sad if I couldn't think of any more submarine or submarine personnel questions to ask you?
Did you have to go to the nuclear power training school?
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Tiger's mom, Lemminglord's BSU Broncos 2007 Fiesta Bowl Champions in one of the most amazing games ever A piece of my heart is in Richmond, VA Souderwan is my hero Ban No Ban Game 10 VIP
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 7:55pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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I think I would be sad.
Alas, every thread has a half-life (and in the JCC they all seem to have a very short half-life).
As for power school, yes I did. All submarine line officers have to go through power school. In my case, I went twice--once as enlisted and then again after I got commissioned.
-----signature-----
"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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farraday
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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I have no clue on the statistics of this at all so I'm just wondering, is going from enlisted to commissioned more common with subs?
Oh here's one, whats the best port for leave? Other then your home port obviously.
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PrincessChattyCathy
Title: JCC Mod of Pinkness
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
11/15/06 9:20am
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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Where can you get the best Chinese food?
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Tiger's mom, Lemminglord's BSU Broncos 2007 Fiesta Bowl Champions in one of the most amazing games ever A piece of my heart is in Richmond, VA Souderwan is my hero Ban No Ban Game 10 VIP
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
11/15/06 2:39pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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I can answer that - Hong Kong Island.
Souderwan, Clancy's skippers always talk about "not cavitating". Can you explain what he means, for the landlubbers amongst us?
E_S
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In this truth he knew himself to be.
From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/15/06 3:35pm
Subject:
RE: ITT Souderwan Answers Questions About Submarines
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farraday posted:
I have no clue on the statistics of this at all so I'm just wondering, is going from enlisted to commissioned more common with subs?
Honestly, I don't know. I can tell you that in the submarine community, about 1/3 of the officers are prior enlisted, 1/3 from the Naval Academy, and about 1/3 are from traditional ROTC units. I don't think that the breakdown is like that in any other community but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily more common in the submarine community. There are tons more officers in the other communities than in the submarine community. If you're just looking at rates of selection, then it's probably safe to say it's more common in the submarine community but by every other measure, it's either the same or less. Hope that made a smidgen of sense.
farraday posted:
Oh here's one, whats the best port for leave? Other then your home port obviously.
The best ports are all ports I've never been to.
I'm told Perth, Australia is the absolute best followed by ports like Thailand, Singapore, etc.
The best port I've been to was Stavanger, Norway but it's not a common submariner port. Another great port is La Maddalena, Italy. I also enjoyed Souda Bay, Greece and Akzaz, Turkey (though I think Akzaz is no longer on the menu. ).
PrincessChattyCathy posted:
Where can you get the best Chinese food?
I haven't sampled many, sadly. I'll go with E_S's choice. Barring access to Hong Kong, I usually go to any one of the 100 or so No. 1 Chinese restaurants around here. (Why are there so many No. 1 Chinese restaurants?)
Ender_Sai posted:
Souderwan, Clancy's skippers always talk about "not cavitating". Can you explain what he means, for the landlubbers amongst us?
E_S
Oooh! Good question!
Cavitation: The formation and subsequent collapse of vapor bubbles due to pressure falling below, and then rising above the saturation pressure for a particular medium (in this case, water).
If you go to Wiki, you'll find an interesting discussion on it. To summarize, there are two types of cavitation--inertial (or transient) and non-inertial cavitation. The cavitation we refer to in submarining is inertial cavitation--the kind common to pumps and impellers. Basically, as a propeller moves through the water, it causes tiny pressure variations along the tips of the propeller. These pressure variations cause bubbles to form and collapse. The collapse of these bubbles puts sound energy in the water and sounds kinda like marbles in a paint can being shaken and is detectable by enemy sonar from very far away. The churn that you see behind a ship or a jet-ski is cavitation.
Submarines all have specially designed propellers to minimize the formation of these bubbles. At steady state--when the screw is turning at a constant rate--there's little to no cavitation from a submarine's screw. To prevent cavitation during speed changes, submarines slowly increase speed while listening for signs of cavitation. As a result, it's a slow build-up in speed (sometimes minutes or so). If you rapidly change speed, you'll cavitate. Normally, you wouldn't want to cavitate, of course. But if someone were to launch a torpedo at us, for example, it's more important that we get fast as quickly as possible (assuming that's the tactic we decide to use) so we'll cavitate--hense the phrase "All ahead flank caviate", which means "put the pedal to the metal right now!!"
The fact that Clancy's skippers keep stressing about cavitation is indication that those skipper's crews are poorly trained. If your men are trained well, they'd need a specific order to cavitate before they'd even think to do it.
-----signature-----
"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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