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Topic:
Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 11:49am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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DarthLassic007 posted:
Emperor_Billy_Bob posted:
DarthLassic007 posted:
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I guess bombing government buildings is less serious than bombing abortion clinics.
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Bombing abortion clinics in which people get killed is more serious than bombing government buildings in which people do not get killed, yes.
What if no one died in either the government building or the abortion clinic? What if an equal number of people died in each one? Is it still all right to do either one?
It is not "all right" to do either. But Ayers killed no one, where abortion clinic bombers have killed many. Some have even sniped off doctors doing their jobs.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 11:49am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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ellybeanjay posted:
Souderwan posted:
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You'd never know it reading this thread, but by a more than 2-1 margin, Democrats think Senator Clinton should stay in the race.
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I'm wondering who these people are. I totally understand and accept that my group of friends does not a random sample make, but all the dems I know are Obama people and the ONE person that I know who is a Clinton fan thinks the time has come to drop out. So whenever I hear these things I'm wondering who the hell these people are.
I think it may have more to do with the backlash from Clinton supporters in the general election on Obama, if the Dem leaders force Clinton to drop out now.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 11:53am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob posted:
DarthLassic007 posted:
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Emperor_Billy_Bob posted:
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DarthLassic007 posted:
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I guess bombing government buildings is less serious than bombing abortion clinics.
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Bombing abortion clinics in which people get killed is more serious than bombing government buildings in which people do not get killed, yes.
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What if no one died in either the government building or the abortion clinic? What if an equal number of people died in each one? Is it still all right to do either one?
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It is not "all right" to do either. But Ayers killed no one, where abortion clinic bombers have killed many. Some have even sniped off doctors doing their jobs.
Let's say that McCain had a relationship with a guy who did bomb abortion clinics where no one was killed. This same relationship that McCain had, matched the relationship that Obama has with Ayers. Which relationship do you think is worse? Or are they equally bad?
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Emperor_Billy_Bob
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 11:56am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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DarthLassic007 posted:
Let's say that McCain had a relationship with a guy who did bomb abortion clinics where no one was killed. This same relationship that McCain had, matched the relationship that Obama has with Ayers. Which relationship do you think is worse? Or are they equally bad?
If this was still the Vietnam Era, they would be equally bad. However, it is still very possible I could pick up the newspaper and hear of a abortion clinic bombing.
Ayers is tied to an era that has passed. If I felt like there was honestly a danger of a return to such practices as the Weather Underground enacted, then Obama and McCain would be equal in this hypothetical scenario.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:12pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob posted:
DarthLassic007 posted:
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Let's say that McCain had a relationship with a guy who did bomb abortion clinics where no one was killed. This same relationship that McCain had, matched the relationship that Obama has with Ayers. Which relationship do you think is worse? Or are they equally bad?
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If this was still the Vietnam Era, they would be equally bad. However, it is still very possible I could pick up the newspaper and hear of a abortion clinic bombing.
Ayers is tied to an era that has passed. If I felt like there was honestly a danger of a return to such practices as the Weather Underground enacted, then Obama and McCain would be equal in this hypothetical scenario.
There's still many left-winged terrorist groups around. You make it sound like there should be some sort of clemency for people who bombed government buildings in the 1960's. As if to say that since it was done a long time ago, people still on the run from the FBI should not be charged with any crime today.
That's on par with saying that if a 95 year old high ranking Nazi war criminal was caught today in South America, he should not be charged with War Crimes and not be held responsible because his actions happened in the 1940's. If that were the case, it would be like saying that his horrible actions were not evil and he should be forgiven and nothing bad happened at all to anyone during the Nazi regime.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:19pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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If there are active left wing terror groups operating in the US right now I am not aware of them.
As to the rest of your response - you misunderstood. My response was not a comment on which was right or wrong or okay or not. You asked how it would reflect on the candidates.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:29pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Out of all the failed revolutions in history, you have to admit that one that involved damaging government property and actively taking steps to ensure that no human life was taken is on the tame side. Yeah, they used bombs, but not on people. They destroyed some property to send a political message. They never tried to actually kill or even harm people.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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If there are active left wing terror groups operating in the US right now I am not aware of them.
The Clinton Campaign? 
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:53pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob posted:
As to the rest of your response - you misunderstood. My response was not a comment on which was right or wrong or okay or not. You asked how it would reflect on the candidates.
What if the last abortion clinic this guy in my hypo had bombed occured in the 1970's? He hasn't bombed anymore since then and is a professor at a college.
30 years from now I will not call someone like Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed abortion clinics in the 1990's, as some naive kid, as you described the members of the Weather Underground as naive kids.
Andalite-Bandit posted:
Out of all the failed revolutions in history, you have to admit that one that involved damaging government property and actively taking steps to ensure that no human life was taken is on the tame side. Yeah, they used bombs, but not on people. They destroyed some property to send a political message. They never tried to actually kill or even harm people.
That's like saying a husband who shoots his wife six times, but she survives, saying that he didn't mean to kill her. There's still an attempt.
Ayers was a member of a group that did kill people. People like the police officers who died in the Brinks Robbery that you talked about earlier. That's like saying some guy in a criminal organization who is in charge of prostitution is not a bad guy even though his fellow members are the ones who do the killings.
It doesn't matter that no one died in his bombings. He might have not cared if someone did die. Even if he didn't want to kill anyone, anything could have happened. A janitor could have been working that night. Or a mother and child could have been walking by at the time. Ayers probably didn't care if anyone did die by mistake even though it might not have been his ultimate goal. It was depraved indifference to him at the very least.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:58pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Andalite-Bandit posted:
Out of all the failed revolutions in history, you have to admit that one that involved damaging government property and actively taking steps to ensure that no human life was taken is on the tame side. Yeah, they used bombs, but not on people. They destroyed some property to send a political message. They never tried to actually kill or even harm people.
They're still terrible people for doing that. Just because they could have done worse doesn't excuse them.
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Eeth-my-Koth
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:03pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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gabe
Title: Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:05pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Fantastic.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:06pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
5/13 1:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Andalite-Bandit
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I don't know if it's so awful as people are saying. In a country that was founded by a revolution, I am always a little surprised that other revolutions or attempts are not sympathized with as much. This country wouldn't have existed without a violent revolution taking place, but those guys are seen as heroes. I guess this is getting kind of off topic, but to me Obama's tenuous association with Bill Ayers is not a big deal.
I would say they were misguided, but to me destruction of government property is not necessarily some sort of evil act.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:15pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Andalite-Bandit posted:
I don't know if it's so awful as people are saying. In a country that was founded by a revolution, I am always a little surprised that other revolutions or attempts are not sympathized with as much. This country wouldn't have existed without a violent revolution taking place, but those guys are seen as heroes.
The revolutions occured against our enemy. It might have been a protest against England's taxes. But Ayers was trying to start one against his own country. The South tried against the North. And today, the South is not seen as the hero.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:16pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
5/13 1:20pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Andalite-Bandit
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To the people in revolutionary times, England was their country.
The South isn't heroic because they wanted to maintain slavery, which is pretty evil by definition. However, you still see people like Robert E Lee getting a lot of respect, even though he was on the wrong side.
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