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Topic:
Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/14 3:38pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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MASTERPRENN posted:
And is it bad for politicians to be elitist?
Yes. Look at what Andalite said was the definition of elitism and then tell me it isn't wrong for politicians to be elitist.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
5/14 3:40pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandAdmiralJello
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Andalite-Bandit posted:
How are they elitist? If you're calling everyone who is rich an elitist, name me a politician who isn't one.
Elitism has connotations of arrogance, of looking down on others, of being snobbish. It isn't just being wealthy.
To be fair, John Kerry was all of that.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. His problem was more than he was a doofus and a stiff. 
Vivec: He did not say it was the definition of élitism. He said that élitism has those particular connotations.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 3:40pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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I never noticed John Kerry being elitist, but he was one of the most boring and uninspiring politicians to ever live. I still can't comprehend how he won the nomination that year.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:07pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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My bad, Jello.
Elitism:
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
3. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
From the American Heritage Dictionary.
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heathdaniel
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:12pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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DarthLassic007 posted:
Captain_Typho posted:
I disagree that he won't have an impact in Kentucky. Some blue collar Edwards voters who are now supporting Hillary or who are undecided may take their candidate endorsing Obama as a sign that if Edwards has faith in him, I can have faith in him too.
Why? Edwards is anything but blue-collared. He lives in a $3 million mansion and he gets $400 hair cuts.
An endorsement doesn't really sway voters, only the most undecided of the undecided. Do you think Hillary would be winning against Obama right now if Gore and Edwards had endorsed Hillary from day one? Probably not.
And Hillary, who with her ex-president husband has earned $110 million this decade, is blue-collared? Using your logic, no blue-collar workers would ever vote because the people running for office aren't blue-collared. John Edwards' message does resonate very loudly with blue-collar workers and I think Captain_Typho's argument that it will have some affect - however big - in Kentucky is correct.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:15pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
5/14 4:16pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandAdmiralJello
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Vivec: I see the AHD is a descriptive dictionary. The notion of 'special treatment' or that some people are 'more equal than others' is one that is present in everyday parlance, but is not strictly part of the word's definition as it was conceived.
The single and only definition the OED offers is:
OED posted:
Advocacy of or reliance on the leadership and dominance of an élite (in a society, or in any body or class of persons). Hence élitist n. and a.
1950 D. RIESMAN in Psychiatry XIII. 303/1 He [sc. Freud] shared with..Nietzsche and Carlyle elements of an elitist position. 1951 Individualism Reconsidered (1954) 30 In Elton Mayo and in other recent writers, one can find a similar elitism and..concern with the formation of group consensus through strong leadership. 1957 C. HUNT Guide to Communist Jargon xlix. 161 His [sc. Lenin's] conception of the ‘narrow’ party consisting of an élite, whose more highly developed class consciousness enables it to see further than those among whom it works... But this élitism is anti-democratic. 1960 New Left Rev. Nov.-Dec. 30/1 The élitist manipulation..of the Communist Party. 1961 Ibid. Jan.-Feb. 59/2 Thompson doesn't know what to do with..us..condemn us as quotation mongers? class us with elitists? 1968 New Scientist 30 May 446/2 The theme of his speech was ‘Elitism and Excellence’, the excellence being that of the mathematically gifted, and the elitism being the varying degrees of regard paid to this talent.
As always, when making arguments based on definitions and ideologies, it is always best to clarify what one is arguing for or against. It is not sufficient to simply say "elitism is good/bad" but rather, that advocating special treatment is.
The pejorative usage often employed by radio commentators, and just now by you and Lassic, would be definition #1 according to your dictionary. The usage in the technical sense is the one provided above, which is what Prenn advocated earlier. To make it more clear, it's élitism in its proper meritocratic sense.
So, really, the two of you are discussing different things. I suspect that Prenn would agree with you were you both using your sense of the word, for example.
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ObiWan506
Title: JC Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:57pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
5/14 4:58pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ObiWan506
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Lord_Vivec posted:
ObiWan506 posted:
Can you guys believe videos like this?
I had to stop in the middle of it. It was just that painful to watch.
You know what the funny part is? That he's apparently Muslim but they forget that fact when they start attacking his Christian preacher of 20 years.
Also, the Edwards endorsement is more of a defeat against Hillary then a win for Obama. Think about this. This endorsement comes right before the evening news cycle where everyone was ready to talk about Hillary's big win and how they were going to talk about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary. Well now the evening news will be Obama, Obama, Obama.
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DarthTunick
Title: Host: The JCC Weekly Poll
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 5:27pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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ellybeanjay posted:
My ideal ticket is still Edwards/Obama, and I'm very sad that it won't happen.
You should be glad that it won't happen.
2008: The 50th season of L.A. Dodger baseball!
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/14 5:29pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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My ideal ticket was Edwards/Richardson, apparently that made me a racist and a sexist. 
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ellybeanjay
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 6:11pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Lord_Vivec posted:
My ideal ticket was Edwards/Richardson, apparently that made me a racist and a sexist.
Richardson's Hispanic, so you're not that racist.
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DarthTunick
Title: Host: The JCC Weekly Poll
Registered:
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Date Posted:
5/14 6:16pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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My McCain/Giuliani ticket is the stuff of dreams, sadly.
2008: The 50th season of L.A. Dodger baseball!
2007-2008 L.A. Lakers: 57-25, #1 seed in the West
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Registered:
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Date Posted:
5/14 6:18pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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So is my H.W./Chafee ticket.
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Boba-Phat
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:31pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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FOXNews banner noticed by me while flipping through the channels: "Hillary wins big in West Virginia, but is it enough to secure nomination?"
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SLR
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:33pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Sorry jello, there should be a rule that no Bush should ever be allowed to be president ever again.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:52pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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 pfft
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