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Topic:
Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Suzuki_Akira
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/3 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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GrandAdmiralJello posted:
that thing with the picture of him in a native Kenyan (?) outfit, people probably wouldn't care about the distinction.
Wat?
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Emperor_Billy_Bob
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/3 1:11pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Jedi Merkurian posted:
Still...you never know at this point. They may uncover a YouTube video of Obama raping a white boy while shouting "salaam alaykum," or something.
The Obama campaign has had all that film destroyed.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/3 1:22pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Still need to find that picture of Ackbar.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 1:26pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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News sites are now reporting that Hillary Clinton is open to the VP position and may indicate this in her speech tonight. Personally I hate the idea of her being in the white house at all after this campaign and her ridiculous shenanigans, but, and I hate to say it, maybe it's the only way to make sure the dems win this thing against McCain. A necessary evil, perhaps.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/3 1:31pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Andalite-Bandit posted:
News sites are now reporting that Hillary Clinton is open to the VP position and may indicate this in her speech tonight. Personally I hate the idea of her being in the white house at all after this campaign and her ridiculous shenanigans, but, and I hate to say it, maybe it's the only way to make sure the dems win this thing against McCain. A necessary evil, perhaps.
It's not a necessary evil. Clinton brings incredible baggage with her, some of it only recently added to her collection. Bill Clinton is part of that baggage, and he sure wouldn't meet the maximum weight limit for check-in bags.
If Obama wants to turn the page, he needs to make sure the only new words she's writing in the book of this country are from the Senate.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 1:39pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
6/3 1:43pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Andalite-Bandit
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Not enough baggage to stop half of the Democrats in this country from voting for her throughout this primary season. There are Obama supporters who would never vote for Clinton if she won the nomination, and there are Clinton supporters who will not vote for Obama when he wins the nomination. If Obama takes Clinton has his VP he's going to take a hit on his change message, but it's not going to stop his supporters from voting for him. I am just afraid at this point that the only way to guarantee a victory against McCain is the unity ticket. Besides, if Clinton comes out basically asking for the VP slot and Obama turns her down, who knows what she'll do. She has a lot of angry voters on her side. I don't like it, but it might happen, and if it does I think the Dems have the win in the fall. It's pretty bleck, but practically, it might be a necessity at this point. Maybe he can shoo her away in 2012 after all this bitterness has cooled down, nothing says a Pres has to keep his VP around forever.
Just to be clear again, I hate the idea of Clinton as VP, but politically it seems like the smart move for the good of the party.
It could be worse, look at Laura Roslyn's vice presidents!
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Victory is never assured, no matter what (which I'm sure you would agree with). Clinton adds little that isn't cancelled out by her massive baggage and general negatives.
My concern is with rank and file Democrats, most of whom don't pay much attention to the day to day news and just follow things on a weekly or even monthly level, and not with much depth. To them, a "unity" ticket is so obvious that it seems like the natural thing to do, if not something that Obama should be required to do. The more knowledgeable you are about the two of them and the race in general, the more you're inclined to dislike the idea (even if you might be willing to be pragmatic and see it as a necessary evil).
Once again, something may come down to public education and ignorance, and as usual, my confidence is about as low as can be. Obama should pick Webb, Kaine or someone else who brings plenty of positives without so much of the baggage. Go with what you can count on, and in the case of Hillary Clinton, you can count on as much being subtracted as being added.
I also don't think that someone (the two of them, really) should be in any way rewarded for running such a personally destructive and divisive campaign. I don't think Clinton thinks Obama has a chance, especially without her. Her arrogance should be sent away, and if she wants to support him, that's good. If not, she'll once again show herself for who she really is.
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Suzuki_Akira
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:18pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Obama/Edwards would make loads more sense to me. Edwards' character is pretty inassailable, which I think would be an asset to Obama given the Trinity controversy, and serve to remind voters that they're cut from the cloth of integrity.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:23pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
6/3 2:24pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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Never ever on Edwards. I'd almost rather have Clinton than Edwards. I see him as too much of a lightweight, lacking Obama's political skills and he doesn't have much more of a resume than does Obama. He had his shot in 2004.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:34pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
6/3 2:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Andalite-Bandit
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KnightWriter posted:
Once again, something may come down to public education and ignorance, and as usual, my confidence is about as low as can be. Obama should pick Webb, Kaine or someone else who brings plenty of positives without so much of the baggage. Go with what you can count on, and in the case of Hillary Clinton, you can count on as much being subtracted as being added.
I also don't think that someone (the two of them, really) should be in any way rewarded for running such a personally destructive and divisive campaign. I don't think Clinton thinks Obama has a chance, especially without her. Her arrogance should be sent away, and if she wants to support him, that's good. If not, she'll once again show herself for who she really is.
Ethically and on principle I agree with you that Clinton doesn't deserve the VP slot and that she shouldn't be rewarded for antics. Realistically though I think it would get the democrats as close to a guaranteed victory as they can get. You get all of Obama's supporters, you most likely get nearly all of Clinton's supporters, you get the demographics Obama was having trouble with, you get the demographics Clinton was having trouble with, and Obama can still bring in the independents and disgruntled free-spirited Republicans. You say Clinton has massive amounts of baggage, and maybe that's true, but somehow she still has like half of the Democratic voters behind her. I don't get why, but it's there. I just think a unified Democratic party will easily take out McCain when there a lot of Republicans who aren't thrilled with him, and I don't think he can bring in the independents as much. I guess it depends on who is VP pick is.
Ideally Obama could pick somebody else as a VP and still win, but as personally distasteful as it is to me, I still really believe that accepting Clinton as VP is the smart political move.
As for Edwards, I dig the guy. I think he'd be a great VP or even President, but he's not going to help Obama get more votes and he didn't seem to help Kerry much in 04. I read some speculation the other day Obama might get him as Attorney General or some kind of cabinet position though.
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:49pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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You all fall victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." But only slightly less well known is this: "Never let Hilary onto your ticket when all it will do is energize the Republican base!"
HAHAHAHAHAHH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! HAHAHAHAH--aggh..
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forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:50pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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One time on Risk I lost like 20 armies to a barely defended Madagascar. It was like The 300 spartans or something.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:50pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Souderwan posted:
You all fall victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." But only slightly less well known is this: "Never let Hilary onto your ticket when all it will do is energize the Republican base!"
HAHAHAHAHAHH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! HAHAHAHAH--aggh..
Did letting Hillary Clinton into your submarine cause it to shrink?
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 2:53pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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I once thought my submarine was unstoppable. But having seen Hilary in action, I'm beginning to think that there are some forces that should never be reckoned with.
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"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/3 3:31pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
6/3 3:32pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthLassic007
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Suzuki_Akira posted:
Obama/Edwards would make loads more sense to me. Edwards' character is pretty inassailable, which I think would be an asset to Obama given the Trinity controversy, and serve to remind voters that they're cut from the cloth of integrity.
Edwards? If Kerry with all of his experiece couldn't carry one single southern state with Edwards in 2004, I don't think Obama who is a lightweight on experience like Edwards, would pick Edwards. Obama will have to balance the ticket with someone who has been around longer than one term. Edwards couldn't even give Kerry his home state of South Carolina or his Senate state of North Carolina.
EDIT:
I think it's going to be another split decision tonight. It's going to be close.
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