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Topic:
Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Spaceman_Spiff
Title: JCC 100,000 Color Pyramid Host
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/3 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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No country club prisons for these scumbags. Kenneth Lay got off easy. I hope someone took a turn going in the back door at least once before he died. No knocking. Just go right in. knowwhatimean? And yes, its very interesting that these oil companies are making more money than they ever have before despite all other businesses losing money, and despite oil going up in price, because, they have to gouge the consumer for every dollar and cent even in the middle of Bush's manufactured war. Sorry, I'm wound up since I've been reading Bugliosi's new book.
*Watch Corner Gas on Superstation WGN.*
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Bullcrap.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/3 10:47pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Price gouging is a serious charge, and congressional inquiries seem to constantly fail to find evidence for them.
It's far more sensible to suggest that commodities speculators know that an unstable geopolitical situation (combined with environmental issues and a severely weakened dollar) leads to uncertainty in the energy markets, making it easy for them to bid up the price.
Putting restrictions on commodities traders would make a bit more sense than war profiteering charges. They aren't doing anything wrong by bidding up on oil--it's just that congress was stupid for allowing them to do so in the first place.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/3 11:00pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Price gouging is a serious charge, and congressional inquiries seem to constantly fail to find evidence for them.
Could that be in part because a lot of congressmen and women have incentive not to find evidence for it? I don't know that they do, but I question whether such investigations are ever really all out, because of what they can turn up if they are. Following the money can lead to all sorts of unsavory connections.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/3 11:12pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Sure, but if there were that much concerted conclusion then there's not much any president would be able to do to stop it, yes?
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/4 12:01am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Spaceman_Spiff posted:
And yes, its very interesting that these oil companies are making more money than they ever have before despite all other businesses losing money, and despite oil going up in price, because, they have to gouge the consumer for every dollar and cent even in the middle of Bush's manufactured war.
Futures contracts.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/4 12:37am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Vates Ιυλιαδις
Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius
Tu regere imperio populos,Romanæ,memento;hæ tibi erunt artes;
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:15am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Spaceman_Spiff posted:
Oil companies are war profiteers and should be treated as such.
Wait. Is it your opinion that anyone who makes money as a byproduct of war is a war profiteer? Or do you mean to suggest that the oil companies were in some smoke-filled room back in 2000 and one of them said "You know what'd be a great way to finally make some profits? Let's get the country to go to war in the Middle East! Oh. And let's also make sure that the government devalues the dollar while simultaneously driving up demand in China and India! We'll make billions! Muahahahahahah!!!'
Oil companies have a fixed profit for each gallon of gas sold--about $0.08 or so. It's not a percentage of the cost (which is what would incentivize them to capriciously raise the price), but an absolute value. So for oil companies to make more money, they simply need to sell more oil. And that's precisely what they've been doing. Global oil demand has been going up every year in the face of a near-constant supply. It's economics 101.
Admittedly, speculation is also driving up the price in the commodities markets as Jello rightly points out. But that's a byproduct of the war, not the precipitating event. You can hate the Oil companies because they're making money as a result of the war, but then you'd have to hate a whole lot of other people, too.
Spaceman_Spiff posted:
White-collar criminals should go to the same prisons and should get the same punishments as the guy who robs a liquor store. Kenneth Lay should have gotten life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, and if a guy gets the death penalty for killing 7 people, what should the guy who destroys a million lives by raiding pensions get? That is all.
Now I 100% agree with this bit. How we treat white-collar crimes in this country definitely needs an overhaul.
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:42am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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I'm sorry, this made me LOL (out loud) at work so I figured I needed to share:
Crow T Robot at Hollywood Elsewhere talkbacks posted:
She's not gone. She'll never be gone. Just watch. At the convention she'll crawl out the landing gear of Obama's jet and tear Lance Henrickson(sic) in half.
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KnightWriter
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:44am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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dp4m posted:
I'm sorry, this made me LOL (out loud) at work so I figured I needed to share:
Crow T Robot at Hollywood Elsewhere talkbacks posted:
She's not gone. She'll never be gone. Just watch. At the convention she'll crawl out the landing gear of Obama's jet and tear Lance Henrickson(sic) in half.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:36am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Nice.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:59am
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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GrandAdmiralJello posted:
There are no superdelegates voting for Obama. Once again, there are none!
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ellybeanjay
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/4 2:11pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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Not only are superdelegates endorsing Obama right and left, over 10 have switched to him from Clinton. So why hasn't she officially conceded yet?
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/4 2:17pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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ellybeanjay posted:
Not only are superdelegates endorsing Obama right and left, over 10 have switched to him from Clinton. So why hasn't she officially conceded yet?
Several reasons:
1) Primaries are non-binding. The popular vote and the delegates only give INDICATIONS of what should occur at the convention but do not require that to be what occurs there. The bad choice of words of RFK would have been better served by saying "Look what happened to Jack Kemp ONE DAY before he was nominated for President."
2) By forcing Obama's hand on actively rejecting her as the Veep (and he should), she's possibly gambiting that enough of her woman (and other) supporters either vote for McCain because he is more "woman-friendly" or don't vote at all, thus causing her to be the "VOTE FOR ME OR ELSE!!!!" candidate in 2012.
3) Who knows what is going on the back-end at the moment in terms of political dealings with the likes of the Clinton teams, let alone Bubba, and the DNC.
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KnightWriter
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/4 2:18pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
- Date Edited:
6/4 2:19pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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ellybeanjay posted:
Not only are superdelegates endorsing Obama right and left, over 10 have switched to him from Clinton. So why hasn't she officially conceded yet?
Well, for reasons outlined by a few people here, I think. Before anything else, she truly believes she's the best person to be president and wants to do as much as she can to force Obama to meet her terms (whatever those may be). She doesn't seem to realize that if she'd been graceful throughout that she'd have far more power. But then, she wouldn't be Hillary Clinton if she were like that.
I'm sure she knows that she look bad to a lot of people, but to a lot of the people who voted for her, she's standing up to Obama and I think she's latched onto that. Put it another way, she's basically using her own product and believing her own press.
She's in it for herself before anyone else, but it's partly or even mostly out of a sense of righteousness and a feeling that she knows best.
Edit: And, as David mentioned, 2012 is likely factoring heavily into her thinking. I don't think she believes Obama can win, especially if she's not on the ticket.
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ellybeanjay
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/4 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: Winter-Spring 2008: The Republican and Democratic Primaries and Caucuses thread.
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dp4m posted:
ellybeanjay posted:
Not only are superdelegates endorsing Obama right and left, over 10 have switched to him from Clinton. So why hasn't she officially conceded yet?
Several reasons:
1) Primaries are non-binding. The popular vote and the delegates only give INDICATIONS of what should occur at the convention but do not require that to be what occurs there. The bad choice of words of RFK would have been better served by saying "Look what happened to Jack Kemp ONE DAY before he was nominated for President."
2) By forcing Obama's hand on actively rejecting her as the Veep (and he should), she's possibly gambiting that enough of her woman (and other) supporters either vote for McCain because he is more "woman-friendly" or don't vote at all, thus causing her to be the "VOTE FOR ME OR ELSE!!!!" candidate in 2012.
3) Who knows what is going on the back-end at the moment in terms of political dealings with the likes of the Clinton teams, let alone Bubba, and the DNC.
1) While I understand the idea behind that, I think that it's pretty clear that, were something to happen to Obama, she would be the next choice.
2) I don't understand how McCain is more 'women-friendly' though I can't tell if you're saying that tongue-in-cheek or with the realization that he's not, but that Clinton's supporters may spin it that way
3) Point
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