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Topic:
[GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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lexu
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:25pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:27pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
lexu
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Lord_Vivec posted:
harpuah posted:
Why does everything have to be about religion?
Not everybody believes in god... deal with it.
Well, religion invented the sacrament of marriage, and now the government uses "marriage" to mean something other than the sacrament. So, yes, you guys have made it about religion by using the term marriage.
Um... you have proof?
Edit: Also, you do realize the term is actually been translated through at least three languages since the birth of Christianity, right? So your petty argument of terminology is pretty weak, as well. Not even to mention that most Christian traditions were borrowed from other pagan religions...
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Eleventh_Guard
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:26pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:27pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Eleventh_Guard
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Religion invented marriage? Uh... okay.
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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No, it didn't.
As OZK said, it was more for land and kids in the beginning.
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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harpuah posted:
dp4m posted:
However, I want the US legal system and tax code to abolish the term and to use a more neutral "recognized status" term to apply to any state-sanctioned / federally-sanctioned family unit, which I want to include same-sex unions.
Domestic Partner FTW.
Actually, interesting side-note to my own personal disenfranchisement there: my company *had* allowed opposite sex domestic partnerships in addition to married, single and same-sex domestic partnerships for insurance purposes (GLBT are a protected class at my workplace by choice) and then they stopped offering me opposite-sex domestic partnership as a choice which would have denied my gf healthcare because we were neither married, nor gay.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Okay, we're done with the "learn this" and "you don't know this" flame baits and all that.
To refocus: whether marriage is a religious institution is nigh immaterial. It may have started as one or it may not have, but if it had, then whatever religious context marriage was conceived in was pre-Christian and not terribly useful for us today.
And as others point out, religious ceremonies are not necessary for marriage. They're certainly not pertinent to this discussion, so let's not get bogged down in a religion discussion now.
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Roma Æterna|SPQR  Imperium Sine Fine "Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque" -Ennius, Annales "Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento;hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos" -Virgil, Aeneid
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Vivec
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Lexu, harpuah, perhaps you need to read what I said earlier.
Here's how it should be (according to me)
Everyone (man-woman, man-man, woman-woman) should be able to get a civil union under the law with all its benefits.
If said couple wants to get a marriage, a religious term, said people can go and have a religious ceremony.
Andalite, this post should best explain my position on the subject.
I believe that same-sex couple should have the same rights and heterosexual couples. However, I just think it should all be called civil unions. So instead of trying to call me a prejudiced person, please read what I said above.
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Lord Sithis, Dark Lord of Entropy  Senator of the Disciples of Lady Lumiya and Lord Shadowspawn Avatar: Of Fire and Lightning: http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_fan_fiction/b10808/28930140/p1/?5 Obama/Biden '08 
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Darth Mischievous
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth Mischievous
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lexu posted:
Polygamy has nothing to do with equality under the law. Think it through, people.
Fallacious argumentation.
The argument is that homosexuals are born into their preference and are entitled to legal recognition of their relationship by society and the benefits of the legal arrangement. The same argumentation can be made for a man that feels he was born naturally to love more than one woman; that it is his nature; and that he should not be denied the 'right' to marry the women he loves. It is a 'nature' and 'love' argument of entitlement to legal recognition by the government, decided not by the people to determine societal parameters but by jurists.
If the people of a given State decide that the recognition of legal marriage will be expanded to alternative lifestyles, then they have that right to decide social parameters. The difference here is that jurists are deciding these issues and overstepping their authority.
Perhaps the people of California will, like many other States, rightly remove the ability for judiciary overreach and reinforce the right of the people to determine social parameters through a State Constitutional Amendment.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:29pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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lexu posted:
The slippery slope argument is ridiculous in the case of gay marriage. Gay people are not farm animals. Polygamy has nothing to do with equality under the law.
I guarantee in the future that if we allow straight traditional polygamists the right to get married, gay polygamists would demand the same right. 
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:30pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Darth_Guy posted:
No, it didn't.
As OZK said, it was more for land and kids in the beginning.
I didn't say it was for land. It's more like buying a house. It's a long-term commitment and a huge investment, as buying a house is today. I'm saying that women used to be viewed more as property and less as persons. Two men didn't get married. Marriage was when a man took possession of a woman, basically. Generally, he could take possession of as many women as he could handle.
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harpuah
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:31pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Vivec, what if the people who wish to marry are athiest or agnostic?
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DarthButt
Title: Manager
• Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:34pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthButt
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KnightWriter posted:
It's "Mormon", Butt. Also, who are you to dictate what marriage is and isn't?
If that is the case, and we're redefining marriage, I'm going ot take my sheep, declare my love for my sheep, and stand in front of the State Capitol and demand that my sheep and I are married!!! !!! !!11
I find it fascinating that anti-gay marriage folks love to trot empty and cliched arguments like this out, as if they're worth anything.
I refer back to what I said at C4, for those few who know what that means.
1) Excuse my typo. I'm sorry I can't type so well as you.
2) I'm basing it on what the definition of marriage is in the Bible - which I explained earlier, which is what is the basis of what the government recognizes, regardless if you choose to believe it or not.
3) It is worth something, as to explain how redefining marriage would be an endless escapade, not to mention it was really a joke.
Of course you didn't read anything about my support of civil unions. Oh no. 
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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harpuah posted:
Vivec, what if the people who wish to marry are athiest or agnostic?
Then they can go to a court and fill out the necessary papers and get a judge to perform the ceremony. But why do they need to have a religious term for their ceremony when, in fact, they don't want anything to do with religion?
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Lord Sithis, Dark Lord of Entropy Senator of the Disciples of Lady Lumiya and Lord Shadowspawn Avatar: Of Fire and Lightning: http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_fan_fiction/b10808/28930140/p1/?5 Obama/Biden '08
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:34pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Vivec: You're continually begging the question.
Marriage is not a religious term, just as the laws against killing and stealing are not inherently religious.
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Roma Æterna|SPQR Imperium Sine Fine "Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque" -Ennius, Annales "Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento;hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos" -Virgil, Aeneid
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:35pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:42pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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Perhaps the people of California will, like many other States, rightly remove the ability for judiciary overreach and reinforce the right of the people to determine social parameters through a State Constitutional Amendment.
Actually, all the justices were confirmed by the voters, and six were appointed by Republicans (if that matters to anyone).
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:36pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/15 10:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Vivec
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GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Vivec: You're continually begging the question.
Marriage is not a religious term, just as the laws against killing and stealing are not inherently religious.
Marriage was derived form matrimony, as in the sacrament of matrimony, which is religious. Therefore, marriage is a religious term, as it was invented from matrimony.
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