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Topic:
[GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:51pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
Basically, I am apprehensive about gay marriage because I don't want any churches getting in trouble for refusing to perform or recognize homosexual marriages. I mean, if marriage between a man and a man is a right, then if two men go to their local parish and ask their priest to perform a marriage for them, and he says, "Sure! It'll be swell." Then the diocese finds out about it and excommunicates the priest, does he not now have legal grounds to sue the Catholic church?
Er, as far as I know religious institutions are not forced to perform weddings for any heterosexual couple who requests it, so why would it be any different for homosexuals?
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:51pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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OZK: Well, it shouldn't necessarily infringe on the churches involved and force them to perform those marriages, but yeah, I can see the concern.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Stay on topic. Stay on topic.
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:54pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Darth_Guy posted:
Er, as far as I know religious institutions are not forced to perform weddings for any heterosexual couple who requests it, so why would it be any different for homosexuals?
Well, are religious institutions forced to perform interracial, heterosexual marriages else they lose their tax-exempt status or are open to lawsuit? I don't know the answer.
If not, there's nothing to worry about. But the fact is, almost any refusal to marry any homosexual couple will be on the basis that it's homosexual, and there will be a clear case for discrimination in pretty much every instance of refusal to perform the marriage (don't see how there wouldn't be, actually).
I mean, there's a difference. I can't discriminate against someone with my secular establishment (like a resturant or something) because of race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation. Why should religious institutions be allowed to do the same?
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lexu
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:56pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
Basically, I am apprehensive about gay marriage because I don't want any churches getting in trouble for refusing to perform or recognize homosexual marriages. I mean, if marriage between a man and a man is a right, then if two men go to their local parish and ask their priest to perform a marriage for them, and he says, "Sure! It'll be swell." Then the diocese finds out about it and excommunicates the priest, does he not now have legal grounds to sue the Catholic church?
Obviously, right now the precedent of the Boy Scouts holds. But I mean, what if it was a black man and a white woman, and a theoretically racist Catholic church excommunicated the priest for performing that marriage?
I don't want the government forcing religions to recognize gay marriage. If the government wants to recognize it, leave it up to the people.
They can refuse to perform services for a variety of reasons, including not being the right religion. If a Jewish person can't sue a Catholic Priest for refusing, why would a gay person be able to sue?
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:56pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Well, I assume that at least some KKK members and neo-Nazis belong to churches that cater to their views... 
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jp-30
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:57pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Lord_Vivec posted:
I've found it funny why you guys care about my anger at marriage being used by the government? I support the right for same-sex couples to get the same rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. Isn't that enough for you?
The weird thing is that the sticking point seems to be the use of a single "sacred" word. I assume if we were to call civil unions, say, 'Murriages' (which afforded all a couple the same rights and benefits as a Marriage) then you would be totally OK with that?
Isn't that a bit... silly?
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:58pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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jp-30 posted:
Lord_Vivec posted:
I've found it funny why you guys care about my anger at marriage being used by the government? I support the right for same-sex couples to get the same rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. Isn't that enough for you?
The weird thing is that the sticking point seems to be the use of a single "sacred" word. I assume if we were to call civil unions, say, 'Murriages' (which afforded all a couple the same rights and benefits as a Marriage) then you would be totally OK with that?
Isn't that a bit... silly?
I suppose it's silly to you, but not to me.
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ellybeanjay
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:58pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Lord_Vivec posted:
harpuah posted:
Good job turning it around... but I meant... what religion are YOU referring to.
I was referring to the Catholic Church, which coined the term "matrimony." I am unfamiliar what other religions call it, if they even have one.
So if you're not catholic, and do not get the sacrament of marriage as the church provides, then you're not really married in any sense, including legally?
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:58pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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lexu posted:
They can refuse to perform services for a variety of reasons, including not being the right religion. If a Jewish person can't sue a Catholic Priest for refusing, why would a gay person be able to sue?
Because the gay person is being discriminated against solely on the basis of his homosexuality.
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:59pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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You can't refuse a Jewish person service in a restaurant without being sued, so there's still that...
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lexu
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 11:00pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Lord_Vivec posted:
jp-30 posted:
Lord_Vivec posted:
I've found it funny why you guys care about my anger at marriage being used by the government? I support the right for same-sex couples to get the same rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. Isn't that enough for you?
The weird thing is that the sticking point seems to be the use of a single "sacred" word. I assume if we were to call civil unions, say, 'Murriages' (which afforded all a couple the same rights and benefits as a Marriage) then you would be totally OK with that?
Isn't that a bit... silly?
I suppose it's silly to you, but not to me.
On pain of irrationality...
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 11:00pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Darth_Guy posted:
You can't refuse a Jewish person service in a restaurant without being sued, so there's still that...
What services could a Jewish person get in a church?
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ellybeanjay
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 11:01pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
lexu posted:
They can refuse to perform services for a variety of reasons, including not being the right religion. If a Jewish person can't sue a Catholic Priest for refusing, why would a gay person be able to sue?
Because the gay person is being discriminated against solely on the basis of his homosexuality.
But homosexuality would be just as protected a class as religion is, so why would one be held over the other?
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 11:01pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Darth_Guy posted:
You can't refuse a Jewish person service in a restaurant without being sued, so there's still that...
Hey! I--- no, well, I guess that's true...
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