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Topic:
[GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:40am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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ellybeanjay posted:
Vivec, you're back! You never answered me - since marriage is a religious term coming from the sacrament of marriage as instituted by the Catholic church, are the only people who should be considered married by the government those that have had the sacrament of marriage? And the rest of them (as I would in this case still be considered married) are just civil unions?
I thought we were forced to drop the topic of religion.
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:43am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
scrollin' scrollin' scrollin'
Keep those pages scrollin'
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ellybeanjay
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:44am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Oh, I missed that. Burn 
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:48am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/16 12:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandAdmiralJello
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Gah.
Okay, so one guy makes a claim that they're not a protected class anymore because they have political clout. I think this is kind of shaky though and don't know where he's going with that. He says that we shouldn't unprotect classes since they're now safe, but just that we don't need to adopt a status to "safe guard its rights"--he doesn't make much sense there.
He then says that it's reasonable for the Legislature to give gay couples all the rights they possibly can that married couples have, aside from the name, on the basis of the existing law which is immune from legislative repeal.
He says that giving them the name marriage will also create problems for federal purposes, 'cause the feds want to distinguish between THEIR view of marriage and ours, and it'd be unclear.
Then he says that the definition of marriage has been passed down through tradition via common law, and that this decision overturns a huge legal precedent even though the majority claimed that it wouldn't.
He concludes that if we are to change the legal precedent, the People should do it at its own pace.
The other guy made more sense.
He says the majority has no case for unconstitutional discrimination because the existing California Domestic Partner Rights and Responsibilities Act of 2003 (DPA) gives them every right married couples have, except the name. He asks what's in a name, and suggests that this DPA is weakened in its significance by the majority's assertion that it provides them second-class status when it really provides them all the rights.
He says drawing the analogy to segregation and "separate but equal" is faulty because those laws clearly violated specific laws addressing those issues and that the situation was clear cut because people just refused to enforce the laws.
He then says "What is unique about this case is that plaintiffs seek both to join the
institution of marriage and at the same time to alter its definition." The majority claims it is not changing the definition of marriage while at the same time acknowledging that marriage has always been understood as between a man and a woman. He argues that it's unacceptable to treat them differently under the law, but that the name (which is all that is under dispute) doesn't factor into that.
Then: "The distinction between substance and nomenclature makes this case
different from other civil rights cases. The definition of the rights to education, to
vote, to pursue an office or occupation, and the other celebrated civil rights
vindicated by the courts, were not altered by extending them to all races and both
genders. The institution of marriage was not fundamentally changed by removing
the racial restrictions that formerly encumbered it"
He argues that the judiciary is not exercising it's proper role because it posits that civil unions are a mark of second class citizenship without offering any legal basis on doing so, and that "The principle of judicial restraint is a covenant between judges and the
people from whom their power derives. It protects the people against judicial
overreaching. It is no answer to say that judges can break the covenant so long as
they are enlightened or well-meaning."
Is that better? 
EDIT: I just noticed my summary is long too. Did I just do all that for nothing? 
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jp-30
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:51am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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20 words or less, pls.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:52am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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He said that the majority was poopy.
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Vates Ιυλιαδις
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jp-30
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:54am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/16 12:55am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
jp-30
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lol anal sex.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 12:56am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Precisely.
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AaylaSecurOWNED
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/16 1:06am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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If indeed the only question here was one of nomenclature, then the dissent does make some strong points. However, having not read the first 121 pages I can't really comment.
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zacparis
Title: Ex Manager
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
5/16 2:00am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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For a land that's apparently free, it takes its time getting there.
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Jaden-Skywalker
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/16 2:05am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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TheGuardianofArlon posted:
This is just more bullcrap. It was made to be Man + Woman.
man/man, woman/woman = abomination that you'd be put to death for
I hope you go to university and realise just how much you've been brainwashed.
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Sinrebirth
Title: SWC Galactic Senate Host
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
5/16 2:30am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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GrandAdmiralJello posted:
He argues that the judiciary is not exercising it's proper role because it posits that civil unions are a mark of second class citizenship without offering any legal basis on doing so, and that "The principle of judicial restraint is a covenant between judges and the people from whom their power derives. It protects the people against judicial
overreaching. It is no answer to say that judges can break the covenant so long as they are enlightened or well-meaning."
I've just picked out this bit. That's a kinda strange comment when he notes that extends a statement like marriage wasn't fundamentally changed by extending it to race, when some religions were used as a basis of racism. If marriage is treated as a religious word, then interracial, um, unions, shouldn't be called marriage?
Just a thought...?
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 8:10am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Jaden-Skywalker posted:
TheGuardianofArlon posted:
This is just more bullcrap. It was made to be Man + Woman.
man/man, woman/woman = abomination that you'd be put to death for
I hope you go to university and realise just how much you've been brainwashed.
Nu-uh! Ben Stein says university is where the brainwashing happens!
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/16 8:17am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
5/16 8:17am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Strilo
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I'll be honest. I am fed up with people giving a **** about this. It's not something that should generate 13 pages of reaction in one day. If I want to get married it's no one's ****ing business but mine. It doesn't affect Arlon or Vivec or anyone else if I get married. Period. It's just not anyone's concern. I am sick of this being such a hot button issue for a bunch of people who really don't have a clue. It's not some interesting socio-politcal debate topic, it's people lives... their rights as human beings.
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Jedi_Reject_Jesse
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
5/16 8:20am
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Darth_Guy posted:
AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
scrollin' scrollin' scrollin'
Keep those pages scrollin'
They see me scrollin'
They hatin'...
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