J-Rod posted:

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Quix said...First, the only thing needed for the next generation is the fusion of gametes, which does not need to occur within a marriage.

You are right. But statisticly it the resulting adult of this fusion is most successful when it happens within the boundries of marriage. That's why the state has an interest in recognizing this relationship above all others.

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J-Rod posted:

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Second, the available research data shows *zero* difference between children raised in same-sex vs. opposite-sex households. We covered this ad nauseum in the Senate homosexuality thread (and yes, I did provide the relevant study abstracts in the process).

There is nothing that we could find outside of individual case studies. Unless you have found new information. Even so, that type of union cannot produce offspring making it inferior.

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PubMed posted:

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Psychosocial adjustment, school outcomes, and romantic relationships of adolescents with same-sex parents.
Wainright JL, Russell ST, Patterson CJ.

Department of Psychology, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, USA.

This study examined associations among family type (same-sex vs. opposite-sex parents); family and relationship variables; and the psychosocial adjustment, school outcomes, and romantic attractions and behaviors of adolescents. Participants included 44 12- to 18-year-old adolescents parented by same-sex couples and 44 same-aged adolescents parented by opposite-sex couples, matched on demographic characteristics and drawn from a national sample. Normative analyses indicated that, on measures of psychosocial adjustment and school outcomes, adolescents were functioning well, and their adjustment was not generally associated with family type. Assessments of romantic relationships and sexual behavior were not associated with family type. Regardless of family type, adolescents whose parents described closer relationships with them reported better school adjustment.

Child Development, 2004, Volume 75, Number 6, pages 1886-1898.

Peer relations among adolescents with female same-sex parents.

Wainright JL, Patterson CJ.

Department of Psychology, P.O. Box 400400, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22904, USA.

This study examined associations among family type (same-sex vs. opposite-sex parents), adolescent gender, family and relationship variables, and the peer relations of adolescents. Participants included 44 adolescents parented by same-sex female couples and 44 adolescents parented by opposite-sex couples, matched on demographic characteristics and drawn from a national sample. On both self-reported and peer-reported measures of relations with peers, adolescents were functioning well, and the quality of their peer relations was not associated with family type. Regardless of family type, adolescents whose parents described closer relationships with them reported higher quality peer relations and more friends in school and were rated as more central in their friendship networks.

Developmental Psychology, 2008, Volume 44, Issue 1, pages 117-126

Victimization, social support, and psychosocial functioning among children of same-sex and opposite-sex couples in the United Kingdom.
Rivers I, Poteat VP, Noret N.

Queen Margaret University, School of Social Sciences, Media and Communication, Edingburgh, United Kingdom. irivers@qmu.ac.uk

To further develop an understanding of psychological and social functioning of children raised by lesbian couples, the authors compared 18 students ages 12-16 raised in families led by female same-sex couples, who were identified from a large school-based survey, with 18 matched students raised by opposite-sex couples and the general student sample. Comparisons were made on factors including victimization, social support, and psychological functioning. Results indicate that those students raised by female same-sex couples did not differ significantly from those raised by opposite-sex couples or the general student sample in terms of reports of victimization, psychological functioning, experience of common adolescent concerns, or prospective use of support outlets provided by family and peers. However, children of same-sex couples reported significantly less likelihood of using school-based support than did children of opposite-sex couples or the general student sample. Findings indicate the need for school administrators, teachers, and psychologists to be knowledgeable of and provide appropriate support and resources for these children. Additional implications for research and application are discussed.

Developmental Psychology, 2008, Volume 44, Issue 1, pages 127-134.

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J-Rod posted:

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Third, all that is required for the next generation to be tenable is socialization, which does not require a 1 man + 1 woman relationship. All that *is* required to produce the next generation is a loving and supportive family environment.

Maybe to nurture the next generation...maybe. But it takes a man and a woman to produce it.

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J-Rod posted:

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But statisticly it the resulting adult of this fusion is most successful when it happens within the boundries of marriage. That's why the state has an interest in recognizing this relationship above all others.

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J-Rod posted:

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Even so, that type of union cannot produce offspring making it inferior.

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J-Rod posted:

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dp4m posted:

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J-Rod posted:

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Doesn't it? Having an ability to create life isn't a big deal? And a big responsibility?

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Rapists have a lot of responsibility then?

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Yup. That's why it's illegal.

Just because pregnacy happens through rape doesn't make the ability to create life any less amaizing or valuable.

Though I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

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J-Rod posted:

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Strilo posted:

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That doesn't make straights superior to gays.... nor straight relationships superior to gays.

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Doesn't it? Having an ability to create life isn't a big deal? And a big responsibility?

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More Fun, Free, and Easily Accessed Research at PubMed posted:

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Outcomes for children with lesbian or gay parents. A review of studies from 1978 to 2000.

Scand J Psychol. 2002 Sep;43(4):335-51.
Anderssen N, Amlie C, Ytterøy EA.
Department of Psychosocial Science, University of Bergen, Norway. norman.anderssen@psych.uib.no

Twenty-three empirical studies published between 1978 and 2000 on nonclinical children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers were reviewed (one Belgian/Dutch, one Danish, three British, and 18 North American). Twenty reported on offspring of lesbian mothers, and three on offspring of gay fathers. The studies encompassed a total of 615 offspring (age range 1.5-44 years) of lesbian mothers or gay fathers and 387 controls, who were assessed by psychological tests, questionnaires or interviews. Seven types of outcomes were found to be typical: emotional functioning, sexual preference, stigmatization, gender role behavior, behavioral adjustment, gender identity, and cognitive functioning. Children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers did not systematically differ from other children on any of the outcomes. The studies indicate that children raised by lesbian women do not experience adverse outcomes compared with other children. The same holds for children raised by gay men, but more studies should be done.

Lesbian mothers, gay fathers, and their children: a review.
J Dev Behav Pediatr. 2005 Jun;26(3):224-40.
Tasker F.
School of Psychology, Birkbeck College University of London, London WC1E 7HX, UK. f.tasker@bbk.ac.uk

There is a variety of families headed by a lesbian or gay male parent or same-sex couple. Findings from research suggest that children with lesbian or gay parents are comparable with children with heterosexual parents on key psychosocial developmental outcomes. In many ways, children of lesbian or gay parents have similar experiences of family life compared with children in heterosexual families. Some special considerations apply to the context of lesbian and gay parenting: variation in family forms, children's awareness of lesbian and gay relationships, heterosexism, and homophobia. These issues have important implications for managing clinical work with children of lesbian mothers or gay fathers.

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J-Rod posted:

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dp4m posted:

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J-Rod posted:

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Doesn't it? Having an ability to create life isn't a big deal? And a big responsibility?

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Rapists have a lot of responsibility then?

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Yup. That's why it's illegal.

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Lord_Vivec posted:

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SIDESCROLL FTL!

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J-Rod posted:

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Man, too many posts!!!

And I have to go!!!

Just for starters we can look at this:

Mothers and non-mothers in the SG and BI group, as compared to their OG controls, were significantly less likely to live in a couple relationship, had significantly lower levels of social support, higher prevalence of early negative life events, substance abuse, suicide ideation, and higher levels of psychological distress.

Not...uh...not good for child rearing.

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J-Rod posted:

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Not...uh...not good for child rearing.

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That same COLAGE website posted:

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From the standpoint of child development, there have been several studies done attempting to compare children from straight families with children from LGBT families, especially lesbian-headed families. Researchers have concluded that sexual orientation of a parent does not have a significant impact on the mental health, coping skills, peer relationships, or general maturation process. source

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The American Psychological Association posted:

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Beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are not fit parents likewise have no empirical foundation. Lesbian and heterosexual women have not been found to differ markedly either in their overall mental health or in their approaches to child rearing. Similarly, lesbians' romantic and sexual relationships with other women have not been found to detract from their ability to care for their children. Lesbian couples who are parenting together have most often been found to divide household and family labor relatively evenly and to report satisfaction with their couple relationships. Research on gay fathers likewise suggests that they are likely to divide the work involved in child care relatively evenly and that they are happy with their couple relationships.

The results of some studies suggest that lesbian mothers' and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples. For instance, Flaks, Fischer, Masterpasqua, and Joseph (1995) reported that lesbian couples' parenting awareness skills were stronger than those of heterosexual couples. This was attributed to greater parenting awareness among lesbian nonbiological mothers than among heterosexual fathers. In one study, Brewaeys and her colleagues (1997) likewise reported more favorable patterns of parent-child interaction among lesbian as compared to heterosexual parents, but in another, they found greater similarities. A recent study of 256 lesbian and gay parent families found that, in contrast to patterns characterizing the majority of American parents, very few lesbian and gay parents reported any use of physical punishment (such as spanking) as a disciplinary technique; instead, they were likely to report use of positive techniques such as reasoning. Certainly, research has found no reasons to believe lesbian mothers or gay fathers to be unfit parents. On the contrary, results of research suggest that lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive home environments for children.source: Lesbian and Gay Men as Parents in the second section

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Quixotic-Sith posted:

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J-Rod posted:

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Man, too many posts!!!

And I have to go!!!

Just for starters we can look at this:

Mothers and non-mothers in the SG and BI group, as compared to their OG controls, were significantly less likely to live in a couple relationship, had significantly lower levels of social support, higher prevalence of early negative life events, substance abuse, suicide ideation, and higher levels of psychological distress.

Not...uh...not good for child rearing.

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Just for starters, that italicized text doesn't appear in the link at hand - that link just goes to a listing of articles.

Just for seconds, even if your unattributed claim is legit, it is one data point against a larger data trend (e.g., all of the articles I've mentioned and to which I've made explicit references).

Just for thirds, I have peer reviewed articles going back to at least 1992 indicting no difference. If you want to play the numbers game over sixteen years of research, your one unattributed quote is less than flimsy.

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J-Rod posted:

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CRAP! Here's the link. Gotta go!

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Linked Article's Abstract posted:

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We examined the well-being of mothers and non-mothers reporting exclusive opposite-gender sexual partners (OG), same-gender sexual partners (SG), or both (BI) in a representative sample of 20,773 participants (11,034 women) 15-years-old or older from the population of Quebec province in Canada. Participants completed a self-administered questionnaire and SG and BI women (n = 179) were matched to a sample of OG women (n = 179) based on age, income, geographical area, and children (having at least one 18-year-old or younger biological or adopted child at home). We assessed social milieu variables, risk factors for health disorders, mental health, and quality of mothers’ relationship with children. The findings indicated a sexual orientation main effect: Mothers and non-mothers in the SG and BI group, as compared to their OG controls, were significantly less likely to live in a couple relationship, had significantly lower levels of social support, higher prevalence of early negative life events, substance abuse, suicide ideation, and higher levels of psychological distress. There were no Sexual Orientation X Parenthood status effects. The results further indicated that sexual orientation did not account for unique variance in women’s psychological distress beyond that afforded by their social milieu, health risk factors, and parenthood status. No significant differences were found for the quality of mothers’ relationship with children. SG-BI and OG mothers with low levels of social integration were significantly more likely to report problems with children than parents with high levels of social integration. We need to understand how marginal sexualities and their associated social stigma, as risk indicators for mothers, interact with other factors to impact family life, parenting skills, and children’s adjustment.

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