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Topic:
[GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
6/8 12:22pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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I do not believe a state's constitution has the right to contradict the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution. That's sort of what the U.S. Supreme Court is all about. Perhaps Dani can shed some light on this...
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/8 12:39pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Strilo posted:
I do not believe a state's constitution has the right to contradict the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution. That's sort of what the U.S. Supreme Court is all about. Perhaps Dani can shed some light on this...
This is of course assuming that there is an unwritten right to be married in the Federal Constitution.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 12:52pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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The history of this country has been a progression of trying to get equal rights for the citizens. There is no ethical way to justify denying marriage to a certain group of people, regardless of current legality. If people want to compromise and use a different word like civil unions, it's pretty petty, but if that's what works for the time being it should be implemented. That shouldn't bother the people who seem to feel that it is some terrible sin to alter the definition of a word.
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DarthPoojaNaberrie
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:12pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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I think they can marry one of their husbands or wives and still love the rest and live happily ever after. They're not excluded from marriage because they can marry at least one of the people they love. Homosexuals can't marry anybody they love.
still, i'm inclined to not really support new laws that say some people can now marry and others can't. i think i'll hold out until someone proposes something that means any adult/s can marry any other adult/s the want. it's only fair.
however, if someone did come up with a solution that, as it was put, would make everyone "shut the hell up", i'd be quite tempted to go full-fledged with support for it.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:14pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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I don't understand how that makes sense. You say you think any adult should be able to marry who they want. Why then would you oppose laws allowing gay people to marry? It gets you closer to your goal, if you really think anyone should be allowed to marry. It's a giant step in the right direction. How is not taking any steps forward better?
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:16pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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DarthPoojaNaberrie posted:
I think they can marry one of their husbands or wives and still love the rest and live happily ever after. They're not excluded from marriage because they can marry at least one of the people they love. Homosexuals can't marry anybody they love.
still, i'm inclined to not really support new laws that say some people can now marry and others can't. i think i'll hold out until someone proposes something that means any adult/s can marry any other adult/s the want. it's only fair.
however, if someone did come up with a solution that, as it was put, would make everyone "shut the hell up", i'd be quite tempted to go full-fledged with support for it.
My solution is to get rid of marriage as a civil institution entirely. If people want to file their taxes together, or claim one another as dependents, go ahead. Let 'em. If people want to live together and one of them changes their last name. Go ahead! Let 'em!
Just SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:17pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
6/8 1:17pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandAdmiralJello
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Strilo posted:
I do not believe a state's constitution has the right to contradict the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution. That's sort of what the U.S. Supreme Court is all about.
The basis for the CASC's decision was based on an interpretation of the CA Constitution that suggests that the right to form a family is a fundamental right. The amendment would overturn this and make it legal.
The US Supreme Court could potentially overturn it if they construed it as discrimination based on sexual orientation, but I have a hard time believing that they would considering quite a few states have passed similar amendments and the Supreme Court has done nothing about it. Further, those laws would stand a better chance of getting overturned anyway because CA is the only state where civil unions are completely the same as marriages except for the name--yet they still haven't.
They'd also bring in fun arguments of the Supreme Court not only overturning a popular vote (which they've done before) but also forcing a change in a state constitution, which should be interesting.
A-B: Yes, but that's exactly what's going on here. Country wide, civil unions are a "lesser" form of marriage. In California, they're exactly the same.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:17pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
6/8 1:18pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Andalite-Bandit
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Obi-Zahn, do you really believe telling thousands upon thousands of married couples that their marriage is no longer valid is going to shut people up? You can not get rid of the civil institution of marriage.
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DarthPoojaNaberrie
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:19pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY.
i'm starting to like this the best though
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:19pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Andalite-Bandit posted:
Obi-Zahn, do you really believe telling thousands upon thousands of married couples that their marriage is no longer valid is going to shut people up? You can not get rid of the civil institution of marriage.
They'll have the same rights and abilities. It just won't be a marriage anymore. They'll be able to file their taxes together. They can be in each other's wills. They can have kids together and change their names. They're just not married.
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:21pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
Andalite-Bandit posted:
Obi-Zahn, do you really believe telling thousands upon thousands of married couples that their marriage is no longer valid is going to shut people up? You can not get rid of the civil institution of marriage.
They'll have the same rights and abilities. It just won't be a marriage anymore. They'll be able to file their taxes together. They can be in each other's wills. They can have kids together and change their names. They're just not married.
You can't honestly believe that telling them they aren't married won't piss them off? Come on...it's completely absurd to do that. It would never happen.
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DarthPoojaNaberrie
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:26pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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i guess it's just a different way of looking at it. what some see as a 'step in the right direction' others see as just another way of continuing to say "you can but you can't". gay people are first and foremost (if not only) interested in getting 2-person same sex marriage legal because it affects them. there's currently nobody of the same sex that i want to marry, so i tend to hold out for legislation that legalizes plural marriage before worrying about gayness issues.
and
Andalite-Bandit posted:
Come on...it's completely absurd to do that. It would never happen.
not so long ago that's what people said about same-sex marriage, so............
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Andalite-Bandit
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:28pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
6/8 1:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Andalite-Bandit
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DarthPoojaNaberrie posted:
i guess it's just a different way of looking at it. what some see as a 'step in the right direction' others see as just another way of continuing to say "you can but you can't". gay people are first and foremost (if not only) interested in getting 2-person same sex marriage legal because it affects them. there's currently nobody of the same sex that i want to marry, so i tend to hold out for legislation that legalizes plural marriage before worrying about gayness issues.
and
Andalite-Bandit posted:
Come on...it's completely absurd to do that. It would never happen.
not so long ago that's what people said about same-sex marriage, so............
love and kisses
I'm sorry, but your position on this baffles me a little bit. You think gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married just because polygamy is also illegal? You might as well say nobody can get married. I don't see how this line of thought helps anyone, all it does is maintain the status quo. It also seems extremely unrealistic. Historically this is never how things have progressed. Take voting rights, for instance. When this country was founded only white property owning males could vote. It was only in the twentieth century when everyone finally got that same right. It was done taking different steps at different times.
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DarthPoojaNaberrie
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:29pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
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yup
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/8 1:30pm
Subject:
RE: [GOOOOOOOOO CALI] California lifts gay marriage ban
- Date Edited:
6/8 1:31pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Obi-Zahn Kenobi
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Andalite-Bandit posted:
I'm sorry, but your position on this baffles me a little bit. You think gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married just because polygamy is also illegal? You might as well say nobody can get married. I don't see how this line of thought helps anyone, all it does is maintain the status quo.
That's not quite what he's saying. He's saying something like, "Sure, I want tax breaks for people with retail jobs, but I work in food service, so I'd rather people in food service get benefits tax breaks first."
So it's kind of like, "If I can't have it, they can't have it either!"
Although, honestly, if you're gonna legalize same-sex marriage, why not polygamy?
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