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Topic:
Are you religious or spiritual?
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AaylaSecurOWNED
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
7/15 7:48pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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Yeah, but I'm not about to extend that to some notion about natural moral laws.
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ophelia
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
7/15 7:51pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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I think all science does that . . . quantum theories are kind of unique in that they're all supported to a greater or lesser extent by science and mathematics, but most are mutually exclusive, and virtually none appear to make any sense in the everyday world. 
It's as if we had a calculator that kept telling us that 2 + 2 = 12.
If you're going to attach a meaning to that, you're going to basically be taking the "leap in the dark," which is one way to describe a choice to commit to faith.
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-RebelScum-
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:00pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
- Date Edited:
7/15 8:08pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
-RebelScum-
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AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
The fact that there are physical particles that exist but cannot be observed seems immensely similar to the idea of a God that is real but cannot be seen. Maybe it's not similar to the paternalistic, conscious "God" that most major religions believe in, but the two concepts to me are notions in very similar spirits. I'll be the first to admit that I don't hold very conventional views about "God," though.
Are you referring to dark matter? Because we can see the indirect results of dark matter on the universe consistently and predictably, and its existence makes sense in explaining other phenomena.
Scummy
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AaylaSecurOWNED
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:08pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
- Date Edited:
7/15 8:08pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
AaylaSecurOWNED
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Not dark matter. I'm talking more about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The fact that we can't observe the position or velocity of an electron without altering the other. I conflate that with not being able to know or understand the true nature of God.
I'm probably not making much sense right now; all I was really trying to say was that Even shouldn't necessarily dismiss whatever argument he was dismissing just because that person compared quantum mechanics to religious faith.
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Onoto
Title: Host
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Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
Yeah, but I'm not about to extend that to some notion about natural moral laws.
Why not? There are natural moral laws, just as there are natural physical laws, so I'd think that such a comparison would be very appropriate. Or do you just mean that I was attaching more meaning than necessary to make the point?
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Jabba-wocky
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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What makes a moral law "natural" as opposed to "unnatural?"
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AaylaSecurOWNED
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:12pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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A little bit of both. Moral relativism is a contentious topic, so I wouldn't go around saying "there are natural moral laws" unless you want diz to show up and bend you over. But also, I was just making a point about faith in science and not a point about moral objectivism.
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-RebelScum-
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:13pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
Not dark matter. I'm talking more about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The fact that we can't observe the position or velocity of an electron without altering the other. I conflate that with not being able to know or understand the true nature of God.
I'm probably not making much sense right now; all I was really trying to say was that Even shouldn't necessarily dismiss whatever argument he was dismissing just because that person compared quantum mechanics to religious faith.
Ah, I see where you're going with that. I think the difference is there are mathematical/scientific explanations for the principle and it works in explaining phenomena where-as religious faith isn't really grounded in that sort of evidence/observation and isn't discarded when it no longer consistently makes sense or properly explains phenomena. Just my two cents.
Scummy
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Onoto
Title: Host
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Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:15pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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I was, of course, speaking as one religious person to another.
Jabba-wocky: I think it's meant to indicate that it is inherent to existence.
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A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. ~Paul Erdos
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Lord_BlackAdder
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:19pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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I read this thread and laugh at people 
I am evil.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:23pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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Lord_BlackAdder posted:
I read this thread and laugh at people
I am evil.
I read your posts and laughed at you. 
I am perceptive.
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Lord_BlackAdder
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:30pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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Perceptive, eh?
Is that permitted for religious or spiritual people?
I suspect you are as evil as I am.
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Quixotic-Sith
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:46pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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There are natural, overarching moral principles; morality is not relative. Bring it. 
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Onoto
Title: Host
Risk
Arena Top 100
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
7/15 8:55pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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I want a good, clean fight. Protect yourselves at all times and obey my commands. Tap gloves, and when the bell sounds, come out fighting.
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A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. ~Paul Erdos
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Lord_BlackAdder
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
7/15 9:05pm
Subject:
RE: Are you religious or spiritual?
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Quixotic-Sith posted:
There are natural, overarching moral principles; morality is not relative. Bring it.
Yes? Please tell us what the natural thingies are?
Some of us might care to "bring it" once we know what the hell you're talking about...
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