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Author Topic: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (WARNING: Revolutions Spoilers)
Tan-Wessel  143 posts
Registered: May '01
23590_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:02pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
That's true, but the Architect isn't the Matrix. He created it...he's separate from the Matrix. Colonel Sanders was just the real Architect's way of communicating to Neo within the Matrix. S

 

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FlintD  130 posts
Registered: Nov '00
13571_Y-Wing
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:03pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
"Why can Neo stops the squids OUTSIDE the Matrix? Is is really still part of the Matrix?"

After reading and participating in other forums about Reloded I believe the answer to this questions is......

Neo can stop them because they are still in the Matrix.

Zion is not the "Real World". No one has been freed. Everything that is happening is exactly what the Matrix wants. The Matrix continues to give humans the illusion of choise. Being able to chose seems to be one of the central needs for humans and that allows them to accept the Matrix program.

Now here is some wild speculation about Trinity. I am begining to believe she is a program. Her name means three, we have been introduced to the three parts of the Matrix: the Oracle, the Archetect, and the Core. These three parts protect the Matrix, make sure it continues to function properly. What if Trinity is a mixture of these three parts of the Matrix. Like the anomoly that the Matrix creates (The One) what if her purpose is to help ensure The One makes the choise to continue the Matrix's cycle.

 
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Tan-Wessel  143 posts
Registered: May '01
23590_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:05pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
[quote] I would think that bullets are programs too, considering the piece of cake that the Margovian (sp?) had sent to the beautiful lady was a program. It would stand to reason that everything in the Matrix is a program of one sort or another, with the obvious exceptions of the humans. [/quote]

Right, I agree that the constructs are programs as well...construct program...like the ones the humans use to get their gear. A previous poster explained it very well.

 

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Darth_Yorrick  3132 posts
Registered: May '02
14728_Trinto Duaba
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:06pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
glad i could help happy

 

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HaN___DoLO3  1667 posts
Registered: Jan '03
23997_Anakin
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:12pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
I realize I might be venturing into a "Pro-Matrix" thread here but did anyone else see this:

Joel Silver: The Wachowski brothers "always intended it as a trilogy," producer Joel Silver said recently in his office on the Warner Bros. lot in Burbank. "They had the whole story written out on yellow pads before we even got started on the first movie."

It's from one of the reviews that appears on TFN.main. (I hope I can just post the quote, if not sorry plain )

Maybe I'm extremely paranoid, but it seems like Silver is sticking it to George. Little yellow pad ?:|

IMO the Wachowski's didn't have the whole Matrix Trilogy thought up. The original was going to be a stand alone piece. If they had all these ideas already, why didn't they film all 3 together?

Okay I'm being silly, but I'm sick and tired of these producers/critics/etc. sticking it to GL and SW.

I've never heard or read one word from him or anyone in his camp bashing another "big budget/epic" film. They have some sort of praise for all of them.

These people (Hollywood/ SW wannabe's) need to get a grip and realize, they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for George and his efforts to bring sci-fi into the mainstream and pop-culture. The Wachowski's wouldn't have even 90% percent of their ideas if it wasn't for SW. It's obvious they were fans, and they've created their own ideas intertwined with philosophical questions and dialogue that's so blaise...

*rant over*

Flame away, but geez, we're SW fans here, I hope some people feel the same way, and see how these other Sci-fi/action series feel the need to put down, and harp about the PT and OT!

They feel the need to compare themselves to it because they know it's superior.

I'm might have just committed JCC suicide...

 

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JediMasterAaron  5904 posts
Registered: Oct '00
40081_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:13pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
That still doesn't explain why Neo has to fight, and why he can't just go about waylaying people with his mind. We learned in the first movie that there is literally nothing that Neo cannot do while inside the Matrix. Morpheus says it, in his initial description of what the Matrix is. He claims that The One has the ability to bend and shape the Matrix around him. Obviously, seeing as how he can affect the bullets, he can affect things within it. At it's core, a person would be no different than a bullet, just more complex. But for someone like Neo, who walks around the Matrix viewing it in it's encoded form, why should this be so difficult? He resurrected Trinity, pulled a bullet from her heart with his mind, but he can't fling an agent around with it? ?:| It just doesn't make sense to me.

JMA

 

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merlin  4083 posts
Registered: May '99
44383_Jawa
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:13pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
Zion is not the "Real World". No one has been freed. Everything that is happening is exactly what the Matrix wants. The Matrix continues to give humans the illusion of choise. Being able to chose seems to be one of the central needs for humans and that allows them to accept the Matrix program.

Now here is some wild speculation about Trinity. I am begining to believe she is a program. Her name means three, we have been introduced to the three parts of the Matrix: the Oracle, the Archetect, and the Core. These three parts protect the Matrix, make sure it continues to function properly. What if Trinity is a mixture of these three parts of the Matrix. Like the anomoly that the Matrix creates (The One) what if her purpose is to help ensure The One makes the choise to continue the Matrix's cycle.


I've been saying about the same thing except the part about Trinity. I think that sounds pretty kewl, but may not be the case. In any case, whether it's true or not I just thought of something:

If the Matrix and the Real World are all still in another BIGGER program, Maybe Neo's job is to save Humanity and to insure their survival for the Machines to live off of (in the bigger matrix including the Real World and their Matrx.) Maybe that's what the smaller Matrix Program has been trying to do all along, is get Neo to succeed and make the people of Zion thinnk that they are living in the Real World, and that they have won. If you get the 1% of the humans that rejected the smaller matrix to believe that they are free, then you can feed off of their energy (because they are really STILL in the matrix) with no problems!

 

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Tan-Wessel  143 posts
Registered: May '01
23590_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:15pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only) - Date Edited: 5/15/03 4:20pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tan-Wessel
Like the anomoly that the Matrix creates (The One) what if her purpose is to help ensure The One makes the choise to continue the Matrix's cycle.

The Matrix does not create the One. The One is just a human being like us, but with certain traits the Matrix requires to "read" in order to restart again with a new updated version. The One is like a bug in a Microsoft product that they Msoft knows is going to happen, but they're not sure what the bug is exactly (there can be a joke here if you wish wink ). What they do know is that once recognized (due to us humans coming across the bug) they need to study it in order to make assurances that a bug like that doesn't happen again.

As for Trinity...her purpose, yes is to be a choice for Neo. But it was an unforseen choice until close to the moment. The Architect stated that for the previous Ones, the CHOICES were different...in neo's case it was Love. In other words, she's the purpose, but her existence wasn't intended for that purpose...it just worked out that way. Causality.

 

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Valyn  29828 posts
Registered: Mar '02
15588_Funeral Pyre
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:17pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
"They possibly could have put a warning before the Colonel Sanders scene and held up a dictionary for some of those not very good with vocabulary."

I felt like I was the only one in the theater that actually understood the dialogue. wink

 

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masterskywalker  6085 posts
Registered: Nov '01
23685_Anakin
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:18pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
"The squids, and Zion, all exist on merely another level of the Matrix. Neo will continue to have powers until his is completely and totally freed from the Matrix as a whole, in my opinion."

Sorry, but that's a dumb theory. And I've heard some pretty dumb matrix theories. wink

"What if Agent Smith is the One?

"Trinity is really an Agent!"

"What if Neo is Jesus?"

Dumb, dumb, dumb. grin

There would be no point to these movies if the ENITRE thing was set in the Matrix. The "matrix in matrix" is unlogical and doesn't fit with the story telling. I'd advise you to watch the Second Renassance as well. Neo can effect sentinels because he can destroy AI programs, also possibly he absorbed some stuff from Smith in matrix one (and vice versa)

So to sum it up, Zion is real, Neo is not a program, and Zion was created and destroyed six times in the REAL world because each time the one gave up his choice, and the cycle started all over again. The one tries to free humanity, partly suceeds, builds Zion, is duped by the archtech, and then Zion gets destroyed. Neo was the first to break the cycle. See my other post for the rest.

Mark my words, come December I'll be pointing to these theroies laughing. grin wink

 

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404NotFound  194 posts
Registered: Jan '03
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:20pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
Three words.


Giant Zion ORGY!

 

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Tan-Wessel  143 posts
Registered: May '01
23590_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:21pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
" I felt like I was the only one in the theater that actually understood the dialogue. wink.gif"

Ditto.

 

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Darth_Yorrick  3132 posts
Registered: May '02
14728_Trinto Duaba
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:23pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
in the matrix, a person's 'powers' come from the level of their comprehension.

this might help explain why Neo can stop bullets but not agents......




imagine if you will that you need ride a bike. you get on, and turn the petals, the bike moves forward.

now imagine that you need to drive a big-rig, which has a complex stick shift engine with many many gears.


how many of you can operate the far more complex machine? esentially, they do the same thing....i.e. move forward.

but the bike is simple to understand, and thereby anyone can ride one. but it takes a LOT more to drive the big rig.




this same logic aplies to how Neo manipulates things within the matrix. the bullets are simple and easy to compehend, so he can stop them. even though he might want to do the same thing to the agents (stop them) and indeed it might be possible, it would take far more understanding, and right now he doesnt have that much.

 

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Tan-Wessel  143 posts
Registered: May '01
23590_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:24pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only)
Re: masterskywalker

I wouldn't call the other theories dumb, but I share your points.

 

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JediMasterAaron  5904 posts
Registered: Oct '00
40081_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/15/03 4:36pm Subject: RE: Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (spoilers for Reloaded only) - Date Edited: 5/15/03 4:39pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JediMasterAaron
Sorry, but that's a dumb theory. And I've heard some pretty dumb matrix theories.

plain You know what I think is dumb? People making snide, belittling comments about other people's theories.

I think it is highly plausible. Why would the Architect have created only one level of the Matrix? If he is to be believed, he's been through 6 versions at this point. Do you honestly think that something as methodical as a machine is not going to have a plan for every eventuality? Just like the security of the Core, which has multiple levels, it is extremely plausible to think that The Matrix has more than one level, for security if nothing else. Would a program really throw everything to chance, leaving the fate of their race to the choice of a human? I sincerely doubt it.

Regardless, it is just a theory. But if you're so high and mighty, why don't you bestow upon us what is REALLY going to happen?

EDIT: this same logic aplies to how Neo manipulates things within the matrix.

But the average human is not able to view a bicycle and a big-rig as their separate components and understand immediately how they work. Neo clearly is able to do that, while within the Matrix. He can understand the program that is the human body well enough to resurrect someone who is dead, so stopping a program in their tracks should be simplicity itself.

JMA

 

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