Jedi Council Forums - SPACE SCIENCE THREAD

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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/1/02 7:27pm Subject: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 10/30/04 6:16pm (19 edits total) Edited By: droideka27
	I've been wanting to put this together for a little while. This is to be a discussion for space science freaks. I'm going to start off with a list of links, most of which are for the benefit of the layperson. Some get a little involved while others are quite basic. You can talk about anything space related that you want, and of course add you own links. I will try to update daily with articles, but for any links you may post that contain more in depth information I will write them down and if the list gets huge I will have this locked and start a new thread with a comlpete list. Sci fi is ok too but try to post a possible specualtion on how the science involved might work. Ok, here is the list: Xprize.org This is the Xprize foundation, be sure to check out the links page. SPaceislandgroup This group wants to build a real rotating space hotel. Orbitalbasics This is a orbital mechanics tutorial from NASA. Nanotechnow Like it says, everything you might want to know about building small. Timedialation A quick page on time dialation at faster speeds. Universemaps This is a cool site with differant scaled maps of the universe. l5news Good content, check out the space clonies section.....cool picks. WarpDriveWhen Basic ideas on faster than light travel. Universetoday This is a huge directory site for various topics. A couple good links from it : SpaceElevators Description of space elevators and their use. BlackHoleFAQ As it says, a FAQ about black holes. PERMANENT.com An in depth web page for the near term development of the Moon and asteroids. Good stuff here. Matrioshka Brains This page is a study of super intelligent civilizations in the form of Dysons Spheres. "The Alternate View" columns This is a list of pages from Analog Magazine concerning speculation on everything from wormholes to immortality to magnetic monopoles. Spacefuture.com This is an EXHAUSTIVE website with what is still basic information, but bordering on the technical. Just clicking on the directory of contents will show you the huge listing of information in this place. Space.com Something amazing everyday and please check out their message boards too. Sciscoop.com This sight has an almost daily update on science and technology articles. Badastronomy.com astrobio.net - Search for life in the Universe Homoexcelsior.com - Memetic Scientific and Technical Encyclopedia jerrypurnelle.com - NASA, X-Programs, and cheap space proposal by writer/scientist Jerry Pournelle PhD Planetary.org - The largest nonprofit, nongovernmental space advocacy group on Earth, founded by Carl Sagan Marssociety.org - Robert Zubrin's baby concerning the colonization of Mars Britney Spears Guide to Semiconductor Physics - Learn about lasers and density states the fun way! HobbySpace - This is one of the largest collections of space related material. news and information on the WWW Explore Mars Now - An interactive Mars habitat Thats it for now. Enjoy. droideka EDIT: locked at user's request in favor of a new thread -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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Jedi_jem Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 10/1/02 11:12pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Here's some: Space Sciences Index -NASA resource hosts a collection of links to space sciences, astronomy, astrophysics, exploration and solar physics sites. SpaceRef -Information on space science. Find press releases, a searchable archive of news stories, a mailing list and directory of space-related links. Ames Aerospace Encounter: Space Science -Space science section of NASA Ames Research Center's virtual tour site Space and Astronomy - Links Astronomy.com Astronomy Information links NASA -----signature----- http://www.unifyingforce.co.nr
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Dark_Lord_Erik Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 10/1/02 11:20pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	If you ever need the first post update with more links, just send me a pm and I'll put in what you want. -----signature----- http://www.killerik.com http://www.thesneeze.com http://www.randi.org http://www.fark.com http://www.digg.com
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 5:42am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Thanks DLE, thats cool. I haven't looked up any articles yet today. But I did have FTL in my head the last couple of days. There are many ideas out there, some implausible, some possible. M. Alcubiere decided to try and come up with the math and science for how a real warp drive would work. He succeeded! Sort of. What he showed was that with the contraction of space ahead of your ship, and the expansion of space behind it, you would have true FTL travel. Time dialation does not become a factor since the ship is surrounded by the warp bubble. Space is normal outside the bubble and within and the ship rides along with the warp bubble. Problem, it required an amount of energy equal to all the stars in the universe. CURSES! But wait, a physicist decided to take a look at his work and showed that by decreasing the walls of the warp bubble you could get the same effect for less energy. that energy came to a few hundred stars. Still not something we are going to do. But it illustrates that FTL is possible, if not probable. I'll stop here for now or this is gonna get long. I wanna talk about wormholes next, I'll have some questions myself. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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Darth Dane Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/2/02 5:52am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	So if/when we discover cold fusion, we will have all the energy we will ever need, and FTL travels will be possible or ..... DD -----signature----- I know I forgot some point or other Proceed in Love SPOILER AND TRAILER FREE UNTIL EPISODE III Glue Join the Club http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8152025 Dark Lord of the JC There MAY be a hidden message ! Room 108
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 5:56am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Any energy would be enough, the probelm is the amount. We will not be making anything close to hundreds of stars worth of power. Our star=10^26 watts of power. Move that up to 10^29(1000 sun like stars) and maybe it will work. So how do you get that much power in one spot? You don't. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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Darth Dane Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/2/02 6:04am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	So th epower is not the problem, but getting a truck through a mousehole can cause problems! DD -----signature----- I know I forgot some point or other Proceed in Love SPOILER AND TRAILER FREE UNTIL EPISODE III Glue Join the Club http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8152025 Dark Lord of the JC There MAY be a hidden message ! Room 108
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 6:16am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 10/2/02 6:17am (1 edits total) Edited By: VadersLaMent
	In that sense you would make a blackhole putting that much mass in one spot. What I was actually getting at is our ability to create that much power in the first place with fusion(The Sun already does this), antimatter, 1 kg of antimatter and 1 kg of matter will give you 43 megatons, 43x10^15 will give you that. So you will need 100 BILLION kg of antimatter and 100 BILLION kg of matter to get enough. This is a much greater bang for your buck than fusion. Where are we going to do that? Thats 220 million tons of stuff to bring together. Its just not going to happen that way. Zero Point Energy could possibly do it, but I have no idea what the energy density of it is. If its low, then its not enough, if its high then FTL will work(And maybe a Death Star would too....) Edited for clarity. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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Darth Dane Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/2/02 6:23am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 10/2/02 6:27am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth Dane
	Can you give the energy needed and the amount of matter and antimatter you need, meaning write them next to eachother, so we can get an overview! So problem lies in Logistics? My point was that you can't expect a hose that was build for 5 liters a minute, to suddenly handle 5000 liters. I was thinking the machine itself, how would that be handled I wonder? Edit: I have to leave DD -----signature----- I know I forgot some point or other Proceed in Love SPOILER AND TRAILER FREE UNTIL EPISODE III Glue Join the Club http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8152025 Dark Lord of the JC There MAY be a hidden message ! Room 108
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 6:31am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 10/2/02 6:37am (2 edits total) Edited By: VadersLaMent
	That really is at the heart of the matter. Think of 110 million tons of matter. An aircraft carrier is 100,000 tons. Now get 110 million tons of antimatter. That which holds the antimatter will have to be more massive since you can't use matter to contain antimatter, you have to use magnetic fields. Plus this is all dangerous as all hell. Your talking near supernova energies to make your starship go. Thats just a disaster waiting to happen. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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Dark Lady Mara Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 10/2/02 12:15pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	It would be a better question to ask how that many antiparticles could be isolated or generated to begin with. -----signature----- "Sci Fi has been associated with geeks and dysfunctional, antisocial boys in their basements with video games and stuff like that, as opposed to... the female audience." ~~ SPOILER-FREE TILLLL EPISODE IV "there aren't that many Ls in til." - farraday
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 12:27pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Ya know what? I have an article about 50,000 antiparticles created and contained in a particle accelerator. Thats alot. But as you say, getting an amount equal to a couple hundred million tons makes its use for warp energy (Or anythign else) completely impractical(To say the least). -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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Dark Lady Mara Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 10/2/02 12:38pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 10/2/02 12:40pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Dark Lady Mara
	Yeah, I heard about that too. 50,000 still isn't very much on the scale we're talking about, though. Fifty thousand antiprotons, for example, would have a mass of what, 10^(-19) g? That's enough antiprotons that I wouldn't want to be around if they all decided to annihilate with normal matter, but nowhere near enough for a propulsion system. Edit: Oh yeah.. you know that nanoscale research has nothing to do with astronomy and astrophysics, right? -----signature----- "Sci Fi has been associated with geeks and dysfunctional, antisocial boys in their basements with video games and stuff like that, as opposed to... the female audience." ~~ SPOILER-FREE TILLLL EPISODE IV "there aren't that many Ls in til." - farraday
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 1:10pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Hehe, well yes I know. But since building with lighter and stronger materials could lend itself to SSTO craft and easier space transport, I went with it. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/2/02 3:15pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 10/2/02 3:17pm (1 edits total) Edited By: VadersLaMent
	Ok now, WORMHOLES: The basic model is a space-time distortion that creates a "mouth". It is conneted to another mouth and you zip from point A to point B. The way that is ususally described is looking at it with a piece of paper. Lay it flat and mark on one end point a, and at the other end point b. Connect them with a line; this is your normal travel through space. The wormhole would be like folding the piece of paper in half so point A and B are right next to each other(Or connected, or taking up the same point). The difficulty discussed in various articles says however, that the wormhole is very unstable and if so much as a photon enters it, it will close and become a blackhole. Well that sucks. Some ideas are out there about imbueing the wormhole with negative energy, this may come from the Casimer Effect. Two plates close together and then charged will move towards each other because the energy between them becomes less than whats outside them. This has only produced minimal energies and we don't yet know how to USE that energy. There is a link on the first post on a new idea in wormhole construction using quantum flucuations in the vacuum of space from a "puckered" throat of a wormhole. Ok, so can we do it? In a recent Scientific American a statement was made to the effect that the next generation of particle acclerators could possibly create atomic scale wormholes. If this is the case, then as the technolgy becomes better, we may be able to use the Casimer Effect or the "puckered" wormhole to feed the mouth of the wormhole into greater size and go ahead and jump through. My question: Don't you have to create BOTH wormhole mouths, then send one of them to your destination to use it with the one you keep at home? If this is the case then we need a system to get to the stars anyway! Is it possible to create a wormhole and "point" it to your desired destination to get there? If so that sounds like a one way trip and you would have to bring everything with you to build a wormhole for the return trip. If it is possible to use one mouth, then might it be possible to one day miniatureize the technology so a ship can create one as needed to get around? Interesting if so since I have heard scientists call the space the wormhole pokes through as "hyperspace" and the tunnel effect is as we see in Star Wars. If anyone can answer these questions I'm all ears. Edited for spelling -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/3/02 5:54am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	This is from Space.com(I got it off MSNBC) about exploitation of the Moon. There has been great interest to going back there other than flags and footprints. Companies mentioned include SpaceDev and Transorbital. There is the possibility of water at the polls to be used as rocket fuel, a ring of solar collectors around the Moon's circumferance to collect power for Earth, and of course the idea of space tourism. Enjoy MSNBC -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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