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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 11/26/03 8:25am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	A link for an article on future of flight over at Space.com Future of Flight -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/26/03 2:47pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Heh, kanathan, I posted that pic a few pages ago. Interesting article, there is alot of basics covered in the head post under the link "Warp Drive When?" There is an antimatter sail link a few pages ago too, they claim it could be done in two years. Ok, I'll by that, except I don't see them getting the funding anytime soon. I don't know if the late Robert Forward originally thought of microwave sails, but he did work out lots and lots of math and science to figure out how they would work and perform. It took the form of Starwisp(Um, also described a few pages ago), and required an amount of energy equal to the electrical consumption of the United States as a whole, something on the order of a few thousand terrawatts. The Starwisp could get up to 20% lightspeed at over 100g's acceleration before it left the solar system. I have a feeling that fusion may get bypassed by antimatter, which would make the helium3 on the Moon worthless if antimatter could be produced in bulk(1 kilo of antimatter combined with 1 kilo of matter will get you a 43 megaton explosion). I don't believe space is seething with energy. I do believe that below the Planck Length there may be vast quantities of energy folded up. I THINK, but have not checked, that there is a post in this thread about the next couple of generations of particle accelerators may be able to get down to the Planck Length and see what's going on and it may require an amount of energy that is not "out of this world" to do it. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 11/26/03 2:52pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Ooops, I must have missed that. Oh well, it was funny enough to be posted a second time. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/26/03 3:21pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Lol, it's cool man, hell, I don't have all the posts here memorized. I almost freaked when I saw this headline, but it's not as bad as it seems....yet: NASA's Orbital Space Plane Project Delayed By Leonard David Senior Space Writer posted: 01:00 pm ET 26 November 2003 A key milestone in moving forward on NASA's Orbital Space Plane (OSP) project, a crew rescue and transportation vehicle for the International Space Station, has been delayed. NASA was expected to release this week a Request For Proposal (RFP) to industry contractors. That document will not be issued as previously expected, said NASA spokeswoman Kimberly Newton of Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, where the OSP effort is being managed. "Additional time is needed to respond to findings and recommendations received by NASA from an external review team from Slay Enterprises Inc. of Warrenton, Virginia, during the 'draft RFP' period," Newton said. Slay Enterprises is led by retired General Alton Slay, former commander of the Air Force Systems Command, Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland. Slay also chaired a National Research Council Committee on Shuttle Criticality Review and Hazard Analysis Audit following the shuttle Challenger accident in 1986. The new target date for issuing the RFP is "no earlier" than Dec. 1, Newton told SPACE.com. Congress concerns The OSP effort is projected to cost $11 billion to $13 billion, according to Dennis Smith, Orbital Space Plane program manager at the Marshall. Over the last several weeks, a key leader in Congress has repeatedly requested that NASA not go forward on the OSP initiative without more details on how the vehicle fits into NASA's overall program. Furthermore, the price tag for the project has been called to question. Congressman Sherwood Boehlert, Chairman of the influential Committee on Science, has aired those complaints in the U.S. House of Representatives. Boehlert, a Republican from New York, reiterated his OSP views recently during a Nov. 20 breakfast meeting of the Space Transportation Association, a confab of organizations that provide launch and other space services for the government and private sector. "It's wrong to expect Congress to sign on to soliciting or awarding a contract for OSP when no one can tell us how the OSP fits into the future of NASA, or remotely how much the project will cost. You'd think Congress had learned that lesson by now," Boehlert said. Next important step As he has done in past months, Boehlert called for a "full, open and honest debate" on how to proceed. "NASA needs to be far more accurate in describing the capabilities, risks and costs of its projects and more honest about when it just doesn't know," the lawmaker said. "I hope we can have that kind of debate, and we'll see where it leads us." But it is clear that NASA does consider OSP a major element in a much larger space vision. Gary Martin, NASA's space architect told SPACE.com that "the OSP represents NASA's next important step for future exploration missions." "We plan to optimize its use within our architectures," Martin said. "It may be the elevator to and from low Earth orbit, and many of its systems may be the foundation for the next generation of deep space crewed vehicles." Ok, so, a few more days instead of a few days ago. Crosses fingers -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/28/03 7:20am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	3 posts coming up, the first from Ananova: China aims for the moon China plans to land a human on the moon by 2020, the country's chief space official said today. "By 2020, we will achieve visiting the moon," said Luan Enjie, director of the National Aerospace Bureau. He said that would follow the launch of a probe to orbit the moon by 2007 and an unmanned lunar landing by 2010. China's once-secret space programme has released a stream of such disclosures following the October 15 flight of astronaut Yang Liwei on the country's first manned space voyage. "We will focus on deep space exploration. The first target selected is the moon," Luan said. The government said earlier this month it would probably launch its second manned space flight within two years, carrying a two-member crew. Officials also have said the government plans eventually to send up a permanently manned space station. But until Luan's comments, officials had denied having plans for a manned lunar landing. They insisted that, in contrast to the US-Soviet space race of the 1960s, China was moving at its own careful, cost-effective pace. Story filed: 13:32 Thursday 27th November 2003 Just at the beginning of this month it was reported that the Moon was not on their agenda, in previous articles they said they were going. At least they seem to have a tentative schedule, Bush seems to be holding out on the Return To The Moon announcement, if he is going to go through with it at all. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/28/03 7:30am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 11/28/03 7:31am (1 edits total) Edited By: VadersLaMent
	Here is something Bush is doing: Nanotechnology Gets $3.7 Billion Federal Backing; Chicago at Epicenter,Wednesday, November 26, 2003 By Jon Van, Chicago Tribune In what some call the biggest commitment to technology research in 40 years, President Bush is expected next week to sign a law establishing a federal office for nanotechnology. Funded with $3.7 billion over the next four years, the office is intended to focus national attention and boost funding for research into studies that deal with manipulating matter an atom or molecule at a time. Technology's ultimate miniaturization literally changes all aspects of matter, including its strength, durability and conductivity. Chicago and the Midwest have been early to jump on the nanotech bandwagon with research centers established at Northwestern University, Argonne National Laboratory, the University of Illinois and Purdue University, among others. Local companies such as Nanophase Technologies Corp., Arryx Inc. and Nanosphere Inc. already have products on the market and more in the pipeline. "The country has to make the bet that this is going to be big. Japan, China and Europe are making the bet, so we can't afford not to." As an example of how things change on the nano scale, which refers to one-billionth of a meter, Park cited a new form of carbon known as nanotubes. Fibers made of nanotubes are so strong yet lightweight that some scientists have speculated it might be possible to build an elevator into space using nanotube fibers. "For such minute fibers to have such strength is incredible," Park said. The National Science Foundation estimates that in about 10 years the worldwide total revenues associated with nanotech could be a trillion dollars. "This is real," Modzelewski said. "The only downside to it would be to avoid the hype that we saw with the dotcom bubble. People shouldn't expect too much too fast. This is something that will be rolling thunder in our economy for a long time, maybe 100 years." This article was slightly edited. A trillion dollar industry based around a product that could fight all physical ailments, speed up our flow of information, and make space craft that can launch, reach space, and return without dropping of any pieces along the way. Better yet, as posted on a previous page(or two), a space elevator can become a reality. It's funny to me that some people are afraid of nano-hype, yet so many more have never heard of it. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/28/03 7:41am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Europa: Frozen Ocean in Motion by Astrobiology Magazine Moffett Field - Nov 27, 2003 The Jovian moon, Europa, is the smallest of the four satellites first discovered by Galileo in 1610. Slightly smaller than the Earth's moon, Europa's two-thousand mile diameter however reflects about five times as much light as our Moon. This brightness hints at what makes Europa such an intriguing place for astrobiologists: Europa's cracked surface is not as smooth as a mirror, but has an icy-sheet that covers the entire satellite. Tens of miles underneath this ice-sheet may slosh a liquid and murky ocean. Named for a Phoenician princess, Europa was captured by the mythological Jupiter. When Jupiter disguised himself as a white bull (Taurus), she was picking coastal flowers, but took stride on his back underneath the surf on her way to the island of Crete. When so named, the moon Europa was not known to have a subterranean sea and vast floating rafts of ice. The probable sixty-mile thick ocean layer, if truly liquid, is so deep that its volume equals all of Earth's oceans combined. A lander on Europa would greet a relatively windless surface world. The tropical conditions near the equator only reach a surface temperature of minus 260 degrees Fahrenheit (-130 C). The acidity of its briny ocean may compare to battery acid, rich in the sulfurous deposits characteristic of the other Jovian satellites. If some microbial life could survive this far from the Sun, it would need to generate its chemical energy from the briny liquid and depend on the shelter of a frozen cap to weather the intense radiation of its Jovian host. Where water, energy and some mineral nutrient has been found on Earth, life has flourished in what often offers some of the more exotic biochemistry hardly imagined even a few decades ago. If life exists on Europa is highly speculative, but would depend on sulfur for its fuel. Whether Europa's primitive conditions ever sparked life or not, the recent end of the Galileo probe's mission took precautions against contaminating whatever may lurk underneath the tidally-flexed, Europan surface. That's the first time I have ever heard of Europa's ocean having an acidic quality to it. That could make things difficult for exploration. I was going to simply post below this article "Forget Pluto! Go to Europa!", but I understand why it is not such a priority, looking for life is being conducted on Mars by both America and Europe, both who have probes about to land. Europa is simply not a priority, and Pluto has never been visited by any previous craft. I don't like that it's that way, but nothing to be done about it. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 11/29/03 3:01am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I also think Europa should be one of our biggest priorities in space. It's definitely more important then going to Pluto. We'll learn a lot by going to Pluto, but it's nowhere near the amount we'll learn if we actually discover life on Europa. And even if we don't find life, the moon should still teach us a thing or two. I've never heard anything about acidic oceans either, so I wonder if that article is just drawing it's own conclusions from what's known. But whatever the case, the matter of getting through the ice sounds like it would be a much greater challenge. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/29/03 4:59am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	It seems to be stated as fact that Europa has an acidic ocean under its crust. How it became so is still a mystery but there are 2 possibilities: 1. Europa and Io share close orbits around Jupiter. Io, being an active volcanic world has shot quite a bit of sulphur into space and Europa may have picked it up. 2. Sulphur may have come up from vents on Europa's ocean floor. As with many things it may be a combination of the two along with some other idea not yet relized. Pluto is a good technology challenge for getting to the outer solar system, Europa is a geologically active world, and as you say and many scientists suspect, there may be life there. It is a powerfully attractive target yet it doesn't get priority. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/29/03 12:29pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Found this which talks about the Europan acid, from Solarviews.com: Sulfuric acid -- a corrosive chemical found on Earth in car batteries -- exists on the frozen surface of Jupiter's icy moon Europa. "This demonstrates once again that Europa is a really bizarre place," said Dr. Robert Carlson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, CA. "Sulfuric acid occurs in nature, but it isn't plentiful. You're not likely to find sulfuric acid on Earth's beaches, but on Europa, it covers large portions of the surface." The new findings from NASA's Galileo spacecraft are reported in the Oct. 1 issue of the journal Science. Carlson, the principal investigator for the near-infrared mapping spectrometer aboard Galileo, is the lead author of the paper. Although there is no evidence of life on Europa, pictures and other scientific information gathered by the Galileo spacecraft indicate a liquid ocean may lie beneath Europa's icy crust. Water is one key ingredient essential for life. At first, Carlson thought the spectrometer's findings of sulfuric acid on Europa would quash any talk that life might exist there. "After all, even though we know there are acid-loving bacteria on Earth, sulfuric acid is a nasty chemical," he said. Those thoughts were quickly negated by a colleague, Dr. Kenneth Nealson, head of JPL's astrobiology unit, who was excited by the findings. "Although sulfur may seem like a harsh chemical, its presence on Europa doesn't in any way rule out the possibility of life," Nealson said. "In fact, to make energy, which is essential to life, you need fuel and something with which to burn it. Sulfur and sulfuric acid are known oxidants, or energy sources, for living things on Earth. These new findings encourage us to hunt for any possible links between the sulfur oxidants on Europa's surface, and natural fuels produced from Europa's hot interior." "These findings have helped solve a puzzle that has been nagging at me for a long time," Carlson said. "Data gathered by the spectrometer during observations of Europa had shown a chemical that we couldn't identify. I kept wondering, 'What the heck is this stuff?' Lab measurements now tell us that it is sulfuric acid, and we can start investigating where it comes from and what other materials might be there." For example, some reddish-brown areas on Europa might be caused by sulfur that co- exists with the sulfuric acid. One theory proposed by Carlson is that the sulfur atoms originate with the volcanoes on Jupiter's fiery moon Io, with the material being ejected into the magnetic environment around Jupiter and eventually whirled toward Europa. Another idea is that the sulfuric acid comes from Europa's interior, beneath the moon's icy crust, ejected by sulfuric acid geysers or oozing up through cracks in the ice. Another theory comes from Carlson's co-author, Professor Robert Johnson of the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, who noted that sodium and magnesium sulfates may have leached onto Europa's surface from underground oceans and then were altered by the intense radiation field. This would produce the frozen sulfuric acid and other sulfur compounds. The new finding is also consistent with earlier Galileo spectrometer data analyses reported by Thomas McCord of the University of Hawaii and other members of the instrument team, who suggested that sulfate salts of this type were present on Europa. Carlson, Johnson and co-author Mark Anderson, a chemist in JPL's Analytical Chemistry Laboratory, plan to study Jupiter's largest moon, Ganymede, to see if it also contains sulfuric acid. The near-infrared mapping spectrometer works like a prism to break up infrared light not visible to the naked eye. Scientists can study the resulting light patterns to determine what chemicals are present, since different chemicals absorb infrared light differently. According to a page found via google search, there was an explorer who found bacteria in a cave in Mexica thriving off of sulphuric acid. If diluted sulphuric acid can form two kinds of salts, this then could mean that the ocean under Europa's crust is a salty one if indeed that is where the acid content of the crust came from. Many kinds of life are found on Earth in extreme locations, the one coming to mind are huge tube worms that prosper in the heat of thermal vents on the ocean floor; this heat can melt metals, yet the worms thrive there. Pluto is an iceball, Europa is a geologically active world. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/29/03 8:27pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Go Rutan go! SpaceShipOne Racks Up Sixth Test Flight By Leonard David Senior Space Writer posted: 11:30 am ET 29 November 2003 The privately-built SpaceShipOne has chalked up a sixth glide test. Piloted by veteran rocketeer, Mike Melvill, the flight took place November 19 over Mojave, California desert. Carried by the White Knight mothership to 48,300 feet, SpaceShipOne was launched on an un-powered flight to a landing strip touchdown. During the glide to terra firma, the vehicle's new enlarged tails were evaluated, as were other handling qualities of the craft. According to Scaled Composites of Mojave, California -- builder and operator of the White Knight/SpaceShipOne -- Melvill reported improved stability of the space vehicle, as well as improved control powers and enhanced stick forces throughout the flight profile. As in several earlier flights, the vehicle's tail section was moved in and out of a "feathered" position - shifted to a 65-degree angle to the main body. During the November 19 test, the feather was extended after a pull-up to the vertical at 30,000 feet - with Melvill and vehicle experiencing forces three times that of Earth's gravity. The vehicle recovered to a stable attitude and descent after a few mild oscillations. The landing pattern was flown at a higher airspeed than previous flights which allowed for a more controlled flare and landing at the nominal touchdown point. The sixth flight came only 5 days after a previous drop test - the shortest turnaround for the vehicle to date: The previous high-altitude drops of SpaceShipOne: August 7, August 27, September 23, October 17, November 14, and now the November 19 test. All flights were done in 2003. Aerospace maverick, Burt Rutan, head of Scaled Composites, leads the pioneering SpaceShipOne work. As for follow-on test flights, including critical in-the-air ignition of SpaceShipOne's hybrid motor, mum's the word from Scaled Composites. A new statement from the company has been posted on its web site, clearly designed to help curb early speculation that the tests are leading to a suborbital flight timed with next month's Wright Brothers anniversary: "Contrary to information you may have read in magazines or other websites about our schedule for the first flight of SpaceShipOne to space, Scaled Composites has never announced an advance schedule for any flight tests of SpaceShipOne and White Knight. The rumors you may have heard about when we plan significant milestones were merely a guess that was made by one magazine and then reprinted by others." Rumors do persist, however, that a near-term objective is gunning SpaceShipOne under hybrid motor power to break the sound barrier. The progression of SpaceShipOne test flights are meant to ultimately snag the X Prize -- a $10 million purse for the first private vehicle to propel passengers to the edge of space and meet a set of guidelines established by the X Prize Foundation of St. Louis, Missouri. Teams around the world are vying for the X Prize money, with numbers of suborbital concepts being pursued. As a LEO tourist ship I wonder if they will have extra perks like passenger space walks, or bring up a large binocular telescope for viewing the cosmos above the atmosphere. I have no idea what the progress of SpaceDev is with the rocket that is being developed, but as soon as I find out I will post it. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/1/03 5:12am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 12/1/03 5:15am (1 edits total) Edited By: MasterAero
	I don't believe any of the X-Prize contenders are actually capable of orbit. I think they only have to do suborbital flights (to 62 miles (100km))which are much easier than LEO. Orbital flights would be more interesting and longer. Reentry speeds and other factors make the craft much more complex than a ballistic flight. Rutan is cool. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/1/03 11:29am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	OOPS! [face_oops] Sub-orbital, not LEO, thankies. Perhaps sub orbital is good for tourists, radiation can be bad above the atmosphere. But NASA is working on a cure for that.<---witty segway into article from Space.com: NASA Works on Radiation Protection Shield By Associated Press posted: 11:26 am ET 01 December 2003 HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (AP) -- Researchers in Huntsville say they may have found a better shield to protect astronauts from cosmic radiation and use as the structural skin and walls of spaceships, planet outposts and space stations. "What we are doing here with the radiation study program will affect all other long-term NASA space exploration missions," said Ed Semmes, NASA radiation study program manager at the National Space Science and Technology Center. The NSSTC and Marshall Space Flight Center are working together on the project. "Going anywhere in the solar system or universe will depend on protecting crews from radiation," said Semmes. "Lunar exploration, which may be in the near future, and if we chose to go to Mars in the future, will be dependent on this research." Semmes said Huntsville researchers are developing a better radiation model that would show NASA the risks of space radiation and how to combat them. He estimates researchers should have answers by 2008. The shield, composed of several sheets of polyethylene heavily impregnated with hydrogen, is called a material composite, said Raj Kaul, an NSSTC materials scientist. The hydrogen breaks down, or diffuses, harmful radiation that could cause cancer by reducing heavy ions into lighter ones. Exposure to lighter ions is less harmful to people than cosmic radiation, said Nasser Barghouty, also a materials scientist. "We have the data today for space shuttle and space station," said Barghouty. "Much of what we do is an uncertain element. The question is, how do we minimize that?" NASA and the Russian Space Agency have been sending probes to Mars for 40 years. Scientists know the radiation counts in space and on Mars' surface, but they don't know how long-term exposure would affect a space traveler, Barghouty said. The Huntsville-developed material is strong and flexible enough to be used to build a spaceship or a space station module, Kaul said. "We are trying to develop a material that is multifunctional," Kaul said. "If we make a spacecraft out of it, then it is not only a structural material, but it also protects the astronauts from radiation, too. This material accomplishes those goals." Kaul said the material also acts as a shield for micrometeroids, high-speed small particles that sometimes strike a spacecraft and cause damage. "It gives us many types of protection all in one package," Semmes said. Initial tests prove the shield protects humans from radiation, but scientists will need more information, Semmes said. The materials will be tested extensively over the next few years in Huntsville and at Brookhaven Lab, on Long Island, N.Y. This is good, it'd be even better yet if a space suit can be made with this material. Most radiation protection I have heard of involves thick layers of rock, or a layer of water sandwiched between walls and flooring, all of which add weight. I would wonder if an aerogel could be so impregnated with hydrogen in this fashion and still be lightweight but with a good ammount of radiation protection. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/4/03 12:00pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Talking about scales of distance from Space.com: Why Don’t We Just Go There? A Teachable Moment By Edna DeVore Director of Education and Public Outreach posted: 06:03 am ET 04 December 2003 Captain Picard and his crew captured the minds and hearts of many viewers as they explored the universe visiting extrasolar worlds and meeting exotic aliens–all without doing harm. Warp speed made it possible. Ah, to travel at warp speed. Doesn’t everyone want to be able to command a space ship to leap across the galaxy, to issue the order: "Make it so!" I sure do, but so far, no one beyond Hollywood has figured out how. There may be numerous intelligent civilizations on planets throughout our galaxy. That’s the hypothesis that drives SETI research. We seek evidence of extraterrestrial technology using optical and radio telescopes to search for signals that emanate from other civilized worlds. These places are far, far away. But, when you discuss the search with school children, often they simply ask, "Why don’t we just go there?" Often, the best teaching and learning occurs when a good question is asked, and explored. The easy reply is that "it’s too far away." What does "too far away" mean to a sixth grade student who imagines standing on the deck of the Enterprise, searching for intelligent life on distant worlds? Her parents may have said the same thing about going to Disneyland for the weekend. In both cases, the travel time doesn’t merit the trip. So, can the issues around space travel to distant worlds be made "real" or at least comprehensible when she asks, "Why don’t we just go there?" Our universe is inconceivably vast when compared to our ordinary human experience and perception. If you add in the futuristic fantasy of Star Trek’s technology, it becomes modestly manageable in your living room–courtesy of Hollywood sets and animation studios. But, gaining an understanding of the vast scale of our universe, even our locale in the solar system, requires a more reflective process, rather than leaping to the simple solution of "make it so" and you’re there in the time it takes to make tea. Whether in classrooms or homes, good teaching and learning connects with shared experiences. For example, in thinking about traveling to other worlds, simply start from home and calculate the travel time to Disneyland, the Moon, Mars, the nearest star, and the nearest extrasolar planetary system. Go from the familiar to the unfamiliar. Pick some commonly experienced modes of transportation: walking, riding a bike, driving a sports car, flying in a jet, piloting a space shuttle, or hitchhiking on a planetary probe like Pioneer 10, Voyager I or Voyager II. Then consider the time it takes to get to the destination. The Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft are the first human-launched vehicles headed out of the solar system toward other stars, and they are barely beyond Pluto after a couple of decades. The problem is time–just like driving around in California looking for Disneyland. It’s not how far; it’s how long it takes to get there that matters the most. For example, if I walked to Disneyland (365 miles from my home) at a rate of 25 miles per day, I’d get there in about 2 weeks. If I ride my bicycle for 100 miles per day, I could get there in less than 4 days. I can drive there in my car in just over 6 hours. Or I can fly there in about 1 hour. Disneyland is a real destination by ordinary means of travel. What about the Moon? The Apollo astronauts took a couple of days to get there in a spaceship. The Moon is about 240,000 miles distant. Children walk a lot. They understand how long it takes to walk to school. If they walked to the Moon as I did to Disneyland, they would be plodding along for about 9,600 days (over 26 years) one way. Flying in a commercial aircraft (average of 500 miles per hour), the trip is only 480 hours (20 days)–again, one way. The space shuttle is not designed to go to the Moon, but if it were, it could get there in just over half a day at its average speed of 17,580 miles per hour. A beam of light, or a radio signal, takes less than 2 seconds to travel from Earth to Moon. And, the Moon is the closest natural object to the Earth, barring the occasional asteroid. Everything else is farther away. Now, consider traveling to another star. The nearest star system is Proxima Centarui, about 4.2 light years away. A light year is about 5.88 trillion miles–5,880,000,000,000 miles–the distance that light travels in on year at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. That puts Proxima Centauri about 25 trillion miles away. At space shuttle velocity, you’d be whizzing through space for just over 1.4 billion years…one way. If you doubled the speed–about the velocity of Voyager as it leaves the solar system–the travel time would drop by half to only about 750 million years. If we want to explore a known planetary system, we have to look farther out. The 110 known extrasolar planetary systems are found around relatively nearby stars; the closest is Epsilon Eridani at just over 11 light years away. It has a couple of planets, but it’s not a comfy place for life. A more interesting place to visit would be Upsilon Andromedae, a solar-type star 44 light-years away that boasts 3 planets. Now how long would that trip take? At first glance, it appears that the problem is our technology: We aren’t going fast enough. While true, there is a something more fundamental that, so far, high-powered physics hasn’t cured. The problem is that outside of Hollywood, we haven’t figured out how to violate the universal speed limit, the speed of light. We can’t travel faster than light, or even close to light speed. So what’s the fastest thing in the galaxy? A beam of light. But even light takes time to travel to Earth from distant stars. A radio signal (a form of light) from a star 50 light years distant takes 50 years to traverse the space to Earth. So, even information encoded in electromagnetic energy (e.g. light, microwaves, radio, UV, etc.) takes time to travel through the universe. And for particles of matter (atoms, humans, spacecraft) that travel at much slower speeds, it takes a lot more time. Travel time is at the heart of the simple answer to "Why don’t we just go there?" But, as we work toward inventing spaceships that travel to the stars on generations-long trips, or even come to new understandings of physics that allow for quicker means of space travel, information arrives continuously at our telescopes from all across the distant universe. It comes here from near and distant stars in our own galaxy, and the galaxies beyond. For astronomers, light of all wavelengths is information to be collected and analyzed, to be sifted for clues about distant worlds, and to be searched for evidence of distant intelligence civilizations. We don’t have to "go there" to discover other worlds, other beings. We simply have to seek out their signals amongst the steady stream of data that arrives daily at the speed of light. Nothing to add here except a suggested reading. In the book Astronomy Cafe the author laments that science fiction still jumps into the realms of fantasy; faster than light travel as an example. He asked why authors don't want to make science fiction with real science. There is a book by Larry Niven called "Protector" which is really a hard science fiction novel. One character makes a journey from the center of the galaxy to Earth at slower than light speeds...27,000 years. There is also a hard science fiction short story collection in hard back that you can find in most Borders and Narnes and Noble bookstores. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/5/03 7:55am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 12/5/03 7:57am (1 edits total) Edited By: VadersLaMent
	Well, the return to Moon announcement is not happening, Space.com: White House Says No Major Space Policy Announcements Planned 'In Near Future' By Leonard David Senior Space Writer And Brian Berger Space News Staff Writer posted: 04:05 pm ET 04 December 2003 WASHINGTON -- Despite widespread speculation that a major presidential announcement on space is at hand, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan told reporters today that President Bush has no plans to make any policy announcement about the U.S. space program "in the near future." Space enthusiasts and White House watchers have been speculating for weeks that Bush would announce a major new space initiative in a speech at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina in December to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Wright Brothers historic flight. Speaking at the daily White House Press briefing, McClellan said that while the president strongly supports the U.S. space program, no policy decisions would be made before the conclusion of an interagency review of U.S. space priorities. "Several months ago the president initiated an interagency review of space exploration to determine the appropriate future course of U.S. space exploration activities. ... That review is ongoing," McClellan said. When asked specifically about a possible speech in Kitty Hawk, McClellan said "there are no plans for any policy announcement in the immediate future, including upcoming speeches." And while it is widely anticipated that Bush will speak in conjunction with Wright Brothers commemoration celebrations, McClellan noted: "We don't announce [presidential appearances] this far in advance. Rumors that an American return to the moon is in the offing gained more credence when the New York Post today put an Apollo-era moon walker on its front page emblazoned with the provocative headline "BACK TO THE MOON: Prez to Launch New Mission." Whispers and rumors For weeks, the on-going buzz from sources both inside and outside NASA is that President George W. Bush will use the December 17th festivities marking the Wright Brothers historic flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina to re-energize the space agency by proclaiming a far-reaching agenda. But there is growing doubt among some space policy insiders here that space will warrant much more than a passing mention in Bush's highly anticipated -- but still unannounced -- speech at Kitty Hawk. White House spokesman Allen Abney said Dec. 4 that the president's schedule typically is not made public more than a week in advance. "I don't think they are far enough along at the present time to announce a major new program" like a return to the moon, said Robert Walker, a prominent Washington lobbyist and former congressman picked by the White House to chair the Commission on the Future of the United States Aerospace Industry in 2002. "The president at Kitty Hawk could announce that they are beginning a planning process toward going back to the moon or to Mars, because that is already underway. But I think the chance of them announcing the details of a major program are minimal at best." What's more likely, Walker said, is that Bush's speech will concentrate on aviation, laying out a vision for the future of powered flight. Walker said he will be listening for a commitment to modernize the nation's overburdened air traffic control system. But for the clearest insight into what Bush intends for NASA, Walker said he will be looking closely at the president's budget request for 2005, due out in February. Walker said he expects that the president's budget will include a request for three percent to five percent budget increases for NASA for each of the next five years. Such an increase, if sustained and combined with resources from other government agencies interested in space, could be substantial enough for the United States to begin planning its way out of low Earth orbit, Walker said. Bigger budget A bigger NASA budget already has support in Congress. Twenty-three senators and 101 members of the House of Representatives wrote Bush this fall pledging their support to a bold new direction for NASA.It is no secret that the White House has taken a leadership role in defining a revamped long-range vision for the U.S. space program. NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe has said on numerous occasions that he and senior officials from other federal government agencies with a stake in space have been meeting regularly at the White House to hash out a range of policy options for the president and his advisors to consider. So far, O'Keefe has offered few clues to date as to what those options are or when they could be announced. Vice President Dick Cheney also paid a visit to House and Senate lawmakers this autumn to talk space, further fueling speculation that a major announcement is in the works. But Capitol Hill sources said Cheney came to listen to lawmakers, not to provide a sneak peak of a new vision for space thought to be taking shape inside the White House. In recent weeks, that speculation has come increasingly to focus on returning to the moon and perhaps using it as a proving ground for the tools and techniques needed for eventual human exploration of Mars. Out of spin cycle Re-planting footprints on the Moon -- last done by Apollo 17 astronauts, Eugene Cernan and Harrison Schmitt in December 1972 -- is seen by some as a way for NASA to regain its exploratory muscle beyond low Earth orbit. At present, many see the American human spaceflight program as being caught in "spin cycle" - of astronauts merely spinning around the Earth in a space shuttle or cooped up in the International Space Station. Back to the moon "is one of an increasingly large number of speculations on the content of the new "vision" for the space program the White House is preparing," said John Logsdon, Director of the Space Policy Institute, Elliott School of International Affairs at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. A veteran space policy analyst, Logsdon told SPACE.com that foretelling what President Bush might or might not say is a tough assignment. "At this point, figuring out the reality of what the President might announce is a bit akin to old-style 'Kreminology' - trying to base specifics on vague and partial statements and other signs of activity," Logsdon said. "This has been a closely held process. My sense is that final decisions, including when the President might make his much anticipated announcement, have not yet been made." Right step...right direction There are key reasons why going back to the moon as a stepping stone to Mars is the right step in the right direction, said Paul Spudis, a senior scientist at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) in Laurel, Maryland. For one, using the Moon to test various technologies applicable to a humans-to-Mars project is a stroke of political genius, Spudis said. "It's a very diplomatic way of bringing along the Mars advocates. I think the Mars people would take the Moon as a test bed initiative in lieu of doing nothing. That's not their preference, but they would accept that," he told SPACE.com. Going direct to Mars with humans, while doable, is a mission still fraught with unknowns, Spudis said. Whether toxic materials exist in the soil on Mars, harmful to humans, is still to be determined. Also, how best not to contaminate the red planet as astronauts troop around looking for life is a challenge, he said. A lunar dress rehearsal for future Mars expeditions not only will test hardware and surface operation procedures of astronauts, Spudis said."Right now, there's nobody at NASA that has any experience in planetary flight. It's not the same as low Earth orbital flight. It's one thing to sit down and viewgraph a spaceflight architecture, build hardware, then launch that hardware. It's another thing to actually operate it safely and efficiently, with knowledge and confidence." "I would argue that what ever reason you go back to the Moon, you get that experience. So in that sense, going back to the Moon is preparation for Mars," Spudis said. Disturbance in the force While the Moon can be utilized as training ground for treks to Mars, it is valuable in its own right. By putting NASA on a lunar trajectory, the Moon can be linked to national security, as well as national economic infrastructure, Spudis said. Producing propellant on the Moon is relevant to both these topics, Spudis said. Doing so would beef up Earth-Moon space operations, he said. Regarding the prospect of President Bush supporting a lunar return, Spudis said he is "cautiously optimistic." "On the other hand, I think I sense a disturbance in the force. People are seriously thinking now about why we have a space program. That's something that hasn't been thought about seriously for 30 years, and that's a good thing." Damn. Ok, then perhaps the OSP and the space station are what's in the immediate future, at least it's activity, even if it's not what many want. But, A budget increase? GREAT! One thing I dislike is when various folks in the scientific space community refer to the Moon as a practice for Mars. That is a good thing on the surface, but the Moon itself is something to be exploited. We shall see. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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