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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/5/03 8:12am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I think 'near future' may not necessarily mean within the month. There seems to be an effort not to steal any thunder from the announcement and they don't want the story coming out too soon. I'm not saying its going to happen then but there has to be something said soon. Also, OSP will probably be a part of this new vision/direction -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/5/03 8:28am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I did just read a Spacedaily.com article on the Press Sec's comments and they made it seem more vague than an outright "No". I will try to remain optomistic. [face_optomist] In other news, the first of the twin Mars probes will be touching down in January. I posted a thread awhile ago to the NASA web page that allowed you to enter your name into a data base, and it would be burned into a CD that each of the rovers carries. Pioneer 10 has been on its journey now for 30 years as of Dec 3rd, occaisionally bits of data come through, but for all intents and purposes the probe is not active, just floating through the cosmos. I wonder one day if probes and rovers will become big money collector items. Could a future human explorer recover a space probe or planetary rover and claim salvage rights of the device is declared to be past its mission? -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 12/5/03 9:41pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 12/5/03 9:45pm (2 edits total) Edited By: obi_wan_kanathan
	I'll just hope that the White House is trying to keep the announcement a surprise. It wouldn't be the first time that the official word about a rumor is that it won't happen, but then a short while later, it's officially announced. I wonder one day if probes and rovers will become big money collector items. Could a future human explorer recover a space probe or planetary rover and claim salvage rights of the device is declared to be past its mission? That's an interesting thought. I'm sure the probes will be worth a fortune, but it wouldn't shock me to see NASA insist that the probes are still theirs and should be put in museums. But it might really depend on who owns the land. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/6/03 2:08pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	After a quick look with google I found that sea salvage rights are nothing more than instant permission to lay claim to any vessel that is abandoned. I'm sure there is more detail and fine print, but that is the basic idea. There is no law for space salavage rights at this time. My guess is that if any company made a rocket and could get to orbit, they could claim any bit of space junk as salvage. As a recyclable commodity, space junk is worth a fortune. As a collectible, it could be worth a fortune as well. Recently, a couple had a meteorite crash into their home. It cost them $10,000 to repair the damage. Well, they gathered the bits of rock that caused the damage and put them up on Ebay. The bids went over $250,000 for the rocks. I would rather the Voyager and Pioneer space craft be left to roam the cosmos, but I bet they would catch a HUGE bid on a collector's market. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/6/03 2:22pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	SpaceX.com I had never heard of these folks before today. Apparently they are jumping into the launch business with a vehicle that will cost $1,300 per pound. They are not an X-Prize contestant, the X-Prize requires manned operations to win. According to their web page the Deptartment of Defense has already bought the first launch. I am guessing this is competition for companies like Sea-launch, I have no clue how much SL charges for launching a payload to orbit. The Falcon lift vehicle of SpaceX gets up to 200km altitude, where SL can get payloads to LEO and GEO. SpaceX does plan on making a three stage heavy lift launcher. Big Dumb Boosters are cheap, the Russians have one that launches for $2,000 per pound. But that seems to be where the threshold is, right around $1,000 per pound for unmanned launches. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/9/03 5:08am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Interesting tidbit on the "new initiative announcement". One possible reason that the announcement might not happen on the 17th is because Bush does not want a repeat of announcing a major direction (like his father did with Mars) before gathering support from congress. If they're going to announce something they want to make sure its going to happen. I think this is a good thing. Hopefully the support will be there. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 12/9/03 5:48pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I can see how that would be a smart thing for him to do. I don't think it'll help much in making the decision a reality or not, but at least we're less likely to get false promises. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/10/03 1:56pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	There was a gathering held in Hawaii recently concerning the future of space flight, I did not post anything here concerning it. Space.com was there and got a number of quotes from such folks as Freeman Dyson and Rob Zubrin. Here is the whole article on the matter, to folow are snippets that caught my eye. Space visionary Freeman Dyson, the acclaimed emeritus professor of physics at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey, recently had a conversation with Robert Zubrin, the world's biggest cheerleader for human missions to Mars. "Your scheme of Mars missions is excellent," Dyson said, "but it has one fatal flaw, the fact that you are expecting NASA to do it." "Ah, but when we give NASA a real challenge like this, it will be a different NASA," Zubrin replied. "I think he is right," Dyson said last Thursday. I think elements of Mard Direct will be used, but NASA seems to be focusing on nuclear power in space, perhaps to use the VASIMR plasma rocket in place of regular boosters. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan later said there would be no such announcements soon. Then over the weekend Bush's chief of staff, Andrew Card, teased television audiences with the promise of "a bold agenda for this country" and said the president "would not give up on space exploration." WHOA! What? I missed that, "a bold space agenda"???? crosses fingers Physicist Robert Park of the American Physical Society, like many critics, argues that robots can do the exploration. Park calls the idea of NASA sending astronauts to the Moon "totally embarrassing," given it has been done. DEAR MR ROBERT PARK, THAT IS SIMPLY STUPID. PEOPLE MUST GO, ROBOTS WILL ASSIST, MAN AND MACHINE NOT ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. To Rees, these are the seeds of a revolution. "If humans venture back to the Moon, and even beyond, they may carry commercial insignia rather than national flags," Rees says. "And perhaps the pioneer settlers in space communities will live (and even die) in front of a worldwide audience -- the ultimate in commercial reality TV." Ok, yeah. Fine, let's go, I'm for it. Put me on reality TV PPV to pay for a journey to the Moon to see how well a group of colonists do. NOT like "Survivor on the Moon", but more like Ed TV. Hold a lottery, tryouts, do it at random, TAKE ME PLEASE, put us on camera through space academy training us as astronauts and take us to space. I'd do it. In a black void where the U.S. government sees the laurels of Apollo, others eye rich, endless opportunity. If President Bush does not decide the future of human spaceflight, perhaps the leader of another country, or the chief of an online book-selling empire, will. I just thought that an important closure to a good article. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/10/03 2:04pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Announcement by NASA that I found at orion22.com(I may have to put this in the head post): Nuclear probe to journey to Jupiter's moons 15:47 10 December 03 NewScientist.com news service Details of a proposed mission to Jupiter and its moons to search for hints of life have been announced by NASA scientists. The Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter (JIMO) will be the first spacecraft to be powered by a uranium nuclear reactor. NASA plans to launch the vessel after 2011 to sniff out life or its potential toeholds on Jupiter and three of its moons. JIMO will also be the largest spacecraft ever sent to the outer Solar System, and the first in a series of nuclear-powered spacecraft that form "Project Prometheus," a programme NASA initiated earlier in 2003. The huge probe will journey to Jupiter and its moons Callisto, Ganymede, and Europa - suspected of harbouring subsurface water oceans. The three planet-sized moons are also among the largest of Jupiter's 61 satellites. Besides water, the icy moons show signs of containing key chemicals and energy sources. These qualities make them tantalising targets in the search for extraterrestrial life. "We don't know if life is there. But this mission will allow us to ask that question with some pretty sound tools," NASA's Christopher McKay told the Associated Press. Scientists outlined the priorities and goals of JIMO at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco, US on Monday. Dynamic oceans "In order to even begin searching for life on these icy moons, we must answer the basic questions," say William Moore at the University of California and Nicholas Makris at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "How thick is the ice? And how and where and when does the ocean communicate with the surface?" Radar, thermal imaging, and seismic sensors placed on the moons might answer these questions, they suggested during a commentary at the meeting. Moore and Makris say Europa holds the most promise for life because it may have the most dynamic oceans due to the intense tug of Jupiter's gravity. The giant planet's gravity is so strong it deforms another moon, Io, to the extent that it boasts the most volcanic activity in the Solar System. Fission reactor This destabilising force appears to make Europa's putative ocean more dynamic, suggests indirect evidence. Callisto and Ganymede's suspected oceans appear to be sandwiched more firmly between layers of ice. "If Europa has an ocean, and if that ocean contains life, and if water from the ocean is carried up to the surface, then signs of life may be contained in organic material on the surface," suggest McKay and colleagues. JIMO will be powered by a fission reactor that will split uranium atoms, releasing heat that can be converted into electricity. The fission reactor would deliver more than a hundred times more power than a non-nuclear source of similar size, according to NASA. Such power is crucial for propelling the spacecraft - which may be 30 metres long - a billion or more kilometres to Jupiter. Wow, 30 meters? That's a big spacecraft. I was hoping for ANTS to get a big go ahead, one big nuclear probe is an expensive loss if something should happen. Still, this is a cool step forward and FINALLY something decisive about going to Europa! -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/10/03 6:34pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Glad to see JIMO still going and getting some press. I take all the credit for its success. Its fairly long because most of it is on a expanding boom. I can't remember the stowed length. Be looking for Boeing and Lockheed concepts of the OSP to unveiled in the media this week or next. They're in town smoozing it up and going through a major review. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/11/03 5:16am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Head over to NASAwatch and check out the Then and Now pictures of management. /homer/ Its funny caus its true. /homer/ NASAwatch -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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HawkNC Title: FanForce RSA Oceania Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 12/11/03 5:21am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Lol...the bunny suit really tops it off in that photo. Who said rocket scientists aren't fun? -----signature----- Use dp/dt -- Come now, do you really expect me to do coordinate substitution in my head while strapped to a centrifuge?
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/12/03 12:10pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	In the above link I gave..you can to scroll down and click "Your comments" on the leadership story. Another Rutan flight. SpaceShipOne Soars for Seventh Time The privately built SpaceShipOne has flown for the seventh time, after a high-altitude release from the White Knight carrier plane over Mojave, California. This December 4 test involved pilot Brian Binnie at the controls - his first flight in SpaceShipOne. According to Scaled Composites, builder of the rocket plane, the test drop successfully checked out SpaceShipOne's stability and control during free fall flight. As in several earlier tests, the craft's tail section was flipped up in "feather" mode high above a desert landing strip. That procedure will be critical in slowing SpaceShipOne down after a suborbital flight to the edge of Earth's atmosphere. This seventh glide flight also saw a full functional check of SpaceShipOne's propulsion system by cold flowing nitrous oxide. The test appears to have gone smoothly, moving closer the day when the rocket plane's hybrid engine is to be fired in the air for the first time. Dates for the seven solo flights of SpaceShipOne are: August 7, August 27, September 23, October 17, November 14, November 19 and now the December 4th test. All flights were done in 2003. SpaceShipOne is a competitor for the X Prize $10 million purse, a worldwide contest meant to stimulate public space transportation. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/13/03 5:50am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Space.com: Earth-Like Planets Common, Computer Simulation Suggests By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 02:51 pm ET 11 December 2003 A new computer model designed to explore the range of possibilities for planet formation around other stars had no trouble coming up with worlds similar to Earth. The simulations generated planets in similar orbits, planets with and without water, and a range of other virtual places that resemble Earth and the other inner, rocky planets. The effort was designed to determine whether the four inner planets in our solar system, called terrestrials, represent a typical or extreme evolutionary scenario compared to what might develop around a Sun-like star with slightly different dynamics, explained said Sean Raymond, a University of Washington doctoral student in astronomy. "We found there's a much wider possible range of masses and water content on terrestrial planets," Raymond said in a telephone interview. "You can have planets that are half the size of Earth and are very dry, like Mars, or you can have planets like Earth, or you can have planets three times bigger than Earth, with perhaps 10 times more water," Raymond said. Raymond worked with Thomas Quinn, an associate astronomy professor at the university, and Jonathan Lunine, a professor of planetary science and physics at the University of Arizona. Their results, announced today, will be published in the journal Icarus. Behind the simulations Astronomers have found more than 100 planets around other stars. All are at least as massive as Saturn and not the sorts of places where intelligent life is likely to flourish. But theorists are using what they've seen as a springboard for imagining what might lurk undiscovered within those systems. A handful are, mathematically, capable of supporting Earth-mass planets in Earth-like orbits. The new model considered what sorts of rocky planets might form around a star with a known giant planet. The simulations represent the extremes of what is possible, the researchers say, and so it's not known which of them might represent reality. There is just one giant planet in each of 44 simulations. The model makes an assumption that a giant planet forms quickly, before terrestrials. (Theorists have not determined whether or not that is how things happened in our solar system.) Gravity-based formulas are put in place and time is allowed to evolve. Virtual small rocks collide and stick and eventually form terrestrial planets. In some cases the initial planet contains the mass of Jupiter, in others it's weightier. Its orbit is like Jupiter's one time, much more elliptical the next. The validity of the model is suggested by the fact that when the virtual Jupiter takes on characteristics similar to the real Jupiter, a set of inner planets similar to those in our solar system tends to develop. However, Raymond said, very minor adjustments to the starting conditions fueled wildly different outcomes. One simulation generated just one terrestrial planet, a whopper up to four times as massive as Earth with up to half again as much water. In another model, five small terrestrials were born, but all were significantly smaller than Earth. At least one terrestrial planet of some sort was spawned by each scenario. Key to life: Water One goal of the study was to determine whether habitable planets might be a common development around other stars. Scientists agree that water is the primary key to life as we know it. Water on the virtual worlds turned out to be dependent on the orbit of the outer, giant planet. Non-circular routes, called eccentric orbits, are bad news. "The more eccentric giant planet orbits result in drier terrestrial planets," Raymond said. "Conversely, more circular giant planet orbits mean wetter terrestrial planets." Here's why: A giant planet in a circular orbit tends to send water-laden asteroids inward, where some of them strike the terrestrial planets and deliver the water. Giant planets orbiting eccentrically tend to kick asteroids outward. Earth is thought to have been dry when it formed. Water, theorists think, was delivered later by asteroids or comets, which formed farther from the Sun where water could be retained, Raymond said. In the case of our solar system, Jupiter's orbit is slightly elliptical. The researchers said this middle-of-the-road, real-world scenario could explain why Earth is not a total waterworld nor a complete desert. Although these simulations are rough, combined with estimates that there may be planets around virtually every star in the galaxy, the possibility of life becomes greater. There is a research project starting in NASA to determine in what other types of environments life may flurish in. Panspermia may be then the numero uno contribution to life on worlds as they bring water and organic molecules. If true, impacts are a must for life to start, but without a giant vacuum cleaner like Jupiter to clean things up, messy solar sytems would give life a very hard time. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/14/03 8:07am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	A little X-Prize news: TWO NEW TEAMS JOIN X PRIZE COMPETITION TOTAL NOW AT 26 TEAMS 12.12.03 Space Transport Corporation of Washington State with team leaders Eric Meir and Phillip Storm. This team is planning to launch an unpiloted 3-stage rocket to space altitude within the next 60 days. On November 22nd the High Altitude Research Corporation, Inc. (HARC) announced its entry into the X PRIZE Competition during an unveiling of its working model X PRIZE entry at groups Huntsville, AL research and development facility. Named the "Liberator", HARCs X PRIZE entry launch vehicle uses two LOX-Kerosene regeneratively-cooled engines that are pressure-fed and lightweight. The Liberator is launched from an ocean going vessel and reaches an altitude of approximately 70 miles. The capsule is constructed of lightweight but durable aerospace materials and boasts two safety systems, including a smaller, separate rocket used to remove the crew from danger if the boost vehicle malfunctions. The three crew members, wearing pressure suits, sit tandem with their backs toward the ground to minimize G-loads. An unpiloted launch with 60 days. If this launch is a sub orbital one then a piloted launch would be right around the corner for this team. To win the X-Prize you must have a piloted launch, land, and turn around within 2 weeks and do it again. This race seems a little closer than I thought. It will be curious to see how many contestants will drop out from their launch research once the X-prize is won. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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