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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/5/04 12:33pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	"Mars is essentially in the same orbit. Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." - Republican vice-president Dan Quayle ^^^^^ Let's have a look at Mars. orbit: 227,940,000 km (1.52 AU) from Sun diameter: 6,794 km mass: 6.4219e23 kg The Roman god Mars was a god of agriculture before becoming associated with the Greek Ares; those in favor of colonizing and terraforming Mars may prefer this symbolism.) The name of the month March derives from Mars. Though Mars is much smaller than Earth, its surface area is about the same as the land surface area of Earth. - Olympus Mons: the largest mountain in the Solar System rising 24 km (78,000 ft.) above the surrounding plain. Its base is more than 500 km in diameter and is rimmed by a cliff 6 km (20,000 ft) high (right). - Tharsis: a huge bulge on the Martian surface that is about 4000 km across and 10 km high. - Valles Marineris: a system of canyons 4000 km long and from 2 to 7 km deep (top of page); - Hellas Planitia: an impact crater in the southern hemisphere over 6 km deep and 2000 km in diameter. Much of the Martian surface is very old and cratered, but there are also much younger rift valleys, ridges, hills and plains. Mars has a very thin atmosphere composed mostly of the tiny amount of remaining carbon dioxide (95.3%) plus nitrogen (2.7%), argon (1.6%) and traces of oxygen (0.15%) and water (0.03%). The average pressure on the surface of Mars is only about 7 millibars (less than 1% of Earth's), but it varies greatly with altitude from almost 9 millibars in the deepest basins to about 1 millibar at the top of Olympus Mons. But it is thick enough to support very strong winds and vast dust storms that on occasion engulf the entire planet for months. Mars' thin atmosphere produces a greenhouse effect but it is only enough to raise the surface temperature by 5 degrees (K); much less than what we see on Venus and Earth. Mars' Satellites Mars has two tiny satellites which orbit very close to the surface: Distance Radius Mass Satellite (000 km) (km) (kg) Discoverer Date --------- -------- ------ ------- ---------- ---- Phobos 9 11 1.08e16 Hall 1877 Deimos 23 6 1.80e15 Hall 1877 ("Distance" is measured from the center of Mars). The above comes from http://seds.org/nineplanets/nineplanets. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/5/04 1:22pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Space.com: Conditions Ripe for Complex Life at 10 Percent of Stars As many as 10 percent of all stars in the Milky Way Galaxy might offer suitable conditions for the development of complex life, according to a new computer model. The galactic habitable zone is noted in green in this computer rendering. The study concludes that one in ten stars are in a region where enough heavy elements existed to form Earth-like planets and where supernova explosions were sufficiently rare so as not to squelch life. A final condition the stars met: Each could have supported planets over at least 4 billion years, roughly the time it took for complex life to evolve on Earth. The study does not predict whether there is any life elsewhere in the galaxy. It merely looks at the chemical and environmental conditions thought by some astronomers to be necessary. The stars exist in a ring-shaped region of the galaxy that astronomers in recent years have come to call the galactic habitable zone. Our own Sun is part of the ring, but whether it actually is a valid region of biological activity is hotly debated. The study was led by Charles Lineweaver at the University of New South Wales in Australia and is detailed in the Jan. 2 issue of the journal Science. Other scientists are not convinced that enough is known about the evolution of life -- we have but one sample planet to study -- to make studies like this meaningful. “We hardly understand the origin of life, let alone the evolution of complex life,” Mario Livio of the Space Telescope Science Institute says in an accompanying news article in the journal. “Until we do, it is extraordinarily difficult to talk about habitable zones.” In a Drake equation calculator, which you can find in any search engine, I think I made a guess for 1% of stars being able to support life. Guess I'll have to revise my numbers. Interesting to note than if evolution on our world is an average example...incorparating mass extinctions and what not...then one of the many reasons that SETI has not found anything may be that other civilizations may be at or near our technology level. Our mot powerful signals we have ever sent are from RADAR, not tv and radio signals as is the popular notion. Many RADARs can pump out over a megawatt of energy over a very narrow degree, such a beam could be detected by a 1,000 foot radio telescope out tp 50 light years distance. TV and radio could be detected out that far, but you would need a dish the size of a large state to detect and actually watch the tv program. Ok, so 10% of the stars are chemically friendly, that's about 10 billion possibilities. There is of course the idea that many or all societies out there may be behind us and we are the Elder Race. There is also the idea that we will soon dispense with radio and go silent as we change to high spped cable and narrowband information tranmission to specific recievers instead of an omnidirectional signal. I mean who the hell knows, but just because it is possible it is worth a look....we just spent 820 million dollars for the possibility of life on Mars, money well spent I think even if nothing turns up this time around. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/7/04 12:48am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Reuters: Sun's Twin Found in Scorpio's Left Claw Tue January 6, 2004 06:17 PM ET ATLANTA (Reuters) - The sun has a twin in the left claw of Scorpio. The solar twin is 18 Scorpii, located in the constellation Scorpio (The Scorpion), a mere 46 light-years from Earth. A light-year is about 6 trillion miles, the distance light travels in a year. In cosmic terms, this is quite close by. Astronomers have looked for sun-like stars for years, because stars similar to our sun might have orbiting planets like Earth, and might be good places to search for signs of extraterrestrial life. They have trained their sights on 18 Scorpii in particular since 1997, when scientists identified it as a potential solar twin. On Tuesday, a team of astronomers from Villanova University in Pennsylvania noted just how much the two stars have in common. They are both about the same age, between 4 billion and 5 billion years old. They have about the same mass, the same radius and the same surface temperature. They take approximately the same amount of time to rotate -- somewhere around 25 days. They have similar cycles of activity, sunspots in the sun's case. Villanova's Edward Guinan said there is a certain sport to finding the closest stellar match to the sun, but there is scientific value as well. Finding a likely twin of the sun shows that the sun is likely a normal star, Guinan said at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Atlanta. I guess you could call the Sun normal, but not typical as our class of star only makes up 10% of the stars in the galaxy. Still, that makes for a possible 20 billion stars like ours. To find one that so closely resembles our star is amazing. I have not found any other info on this. I do know that there are some very powerful computer models created to calculate what life is possible when the conditions shown in our solar system are plugged in. Not one time has a computer model shown humans or any other kind of complex life arise. Now there is no way to figure in every detail as yet, I wonder how much biological information is placed into these models and how they are made to interact with the program. Safe to this star will become a target for planetary and SETI searches. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/7/04 1:32pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Aha. A little more info today about our Suns twin. 18 Scorpii is 47.5 light years away in the constellation Scorpio. It is possible to see it before dawn to the south. The differances are suttle 18 Scorpii surface temperature= 5,789 Kelvin Our Sun's= 5,777. 18Scorpii rotation period=23 days. The Sun=25 days. 18 Scorpii age = 4.2 billion years. the Sun = 4.5 billion years. 18 Scorpii may be 1.01 times the Sun's mass and has 1.02 to 1.03 times the diameter. It may contain 5 to 12 percent more heavy elements than the Sun. An Earth like world could have a habitable environment at the same distance we are from our own Sun plus or minus half an A.U. for the whole habitable zone. Equipment does not exist yet to detect Earth sized worlds. More robust spectrometers are on the way for ground based telescopes, and the Terrestrial Planet Finder is due to go up later this decade which will be able to detect Earth like worlds. Later, a space based interferometry telescope should be able to take a direct picture of planets around other stars and determine the chemical make-up of their atmospheres. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/8/04 12:29pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Owie, gamma ray bursts: Theory: Mass Extinction by Our Own Sun By Paul Recer Associated Press posted: 08:35 am ET 08 January 2004 ATLANTA (AP) - The second-largest extinction in the Earth's history, the killing of two-thirds of all species, may have been caused by ultraviolet radiation from the Sun after gamma rays destroyed the Earth's ozone layer. Astronomers are proposing that a supernova exploded within 10,000 light years of the Earth, destroying the chemistry of the atmosphere and allowing the Sun's ultraviolet rays to cook fragile, unprotected life forms. All this happened some 440 million years ago and led to what is known as the Ordovician extinction, the second most severe of the planet's five great periods of extinction. "The prevailing theory for that extinction has been an ice age,'' said Adrian L. Melott, a University of Kansas astronomer. "We think there is very good circumstantial evidence for a gamma ray burst.'' Fossil records for the Ordovician extinction show an abrupt disappearance of two-thirds of all species on the planet. Those records also show that an ice age that lasted more than a half million years started during the same period. Melott said a gamma ray burst would explain both phenomena. He said a gamma ray beam striking the Earth would break up molecules in the stratosphere, causing the formation of nitrous oxide and other chemicals that would destroy the ozone layer and shroud the planet in a brown smog. "The sky would get brown, but there would be intense ultraviolet radiation from the Sun striking the surface.'' he said. The radiation would be at least 50 times above normal, powerful enough to killed exposed life. In a second effect, the brown smog would cause the Earth to cool, triggering an ice age, Melott said. The extinction "could have been a one-two punch,'' said Bruce S. Lieberman, a paleontologist at the University of Kansas and a co-author of the theory. "Our theory builds on earlier theories'' that included an ice age. Before the extinction, the Earth was unusually warm. Melott said climate experts have been unable to find a model that would explain the sudden onset of massive glaciers. "They need something to jump start the ice age,'' he said. "The gamma ray burst could have done it.'' Jere H. Lipps, a paleobiologist at the University of California, Berkeley, said gamma rays as a source of the Ordovician extinction should be regarded as only one of several theories. "It is a hypothesis that should be tested,'' Lipps said. He said the widely-accepted idea that the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid 65 million years ago started out as a "wild idea'' but that it gained wide support after other research. Most of the life killed in the Ordovician extinction were primitive sea creatures. Those that lived at or near the surface would be greatest risk from the ultraviolet radiation. Melott the species killed lived in shallow waters or reproduced with larvae that spent part of their lives near the water surface. Animals living in deep water were not harmed. There were only primitive plants living on land, but they, too, would have been affected, he said. Melott said it is almost certain that Earth has been zapped by a gamma rays several times in its 4.5 billion year history. "You can expect a dangerous gamma ray burst every few hundred million years,'' he said. "It could happen tomorrow or it could be millions of years.'' Supernovae, the source of gamma rays, usually leave behind remnant clouds of dust, shock waves and black holes that can be detected for millions of years. Melott said there is no known evidence of such a nearby supernova, but that in 440 million years the Milky Way would have rotated almost twice and traces of the explosion could have been moved during that time. The Ordovician was the first of five great extinctions in history. The Devonian, 360 million years ago, killed 60 percent of all species; the Permian-Triassic, 250 million years ago, killed 90 percent of all life; the late Triassic, 220 million years ago, killed half of all species; and the Cretacious-Tertiary event destroyed the dinosaurs and half of all other species about 65 million years ago. Gamma ray bursts have been measured and calculated at 500 per year in the volume of the visable Universe. The odds calculated are that one GRB goes off in our galaxy and pointed in Earth's general direction every 200 million years. A supernova would have to be close by, a few hundred lightyears. The gama ray burst from supermassive stars could come from a much greater distance and cause us to have a very bad day. Here is a little more on those 5 extinctions: Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction, about 65 million years ago, probably caused or aggravated by impact of several-mile-wide asteroid that created the Chicxulub crater now hidden on the Yucatan Peninsula and beneath the Gulf of Mexico. Some argue for other causes, including gradual climate change or flood-like volcanic eruptions of basalt lava from India’s Deccan Traps. The extinction killed 16 percent of marine families, 47 percent of marine genera (the classification above species) and 18 percent of land vertebrate families, including the dinosaurs. End Triassic extinction, roughly 199 million to 214 million years ago, most likely caused by massive floods of lava erupting from the central Atlantic magmatic province -- an event that triggered the opening of the Atlantic Ocean. The volcanism may have led to deadly global warming. Rocks from the eruptions now are found in the eastern United States, eastern Brazil, North Africa and Spain. The death toll: 22 percent of marine families, 52 percent of marine genera. Vertebrate deaths are unclear. Permian-Triassic extinction, about 251 million years ago. Many scientists suspect a comet or asteroid impact, although direct evidence has not been found. Others believe the cause was flood volcanism from the Siberian Traps and related loss of oxygen in the seas. Still others believe the impact triggered the volcanism and also may have done so during the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction. The Permian-Triassic catastrophe was Earth’s worst mass extinction, killing 95 percent of all species, 53 percent of marine families, 84 percent of marine genera and an estimated 70 percent of land species such as plants, insects and vertebrate animals. Late Devonian extinction, about 364 million years ago, cause unknown. It killed 22 percent of marine families and 57 percent of marine genera. Erwin said little is known about land organisms at the time. Ordovician-Silurian extinction, about 439 million years ago, caused by a drop in sea levels as glaciers formed, then by rising sea levels as glaciers melted. The toll: 25 percent of marine families and 60 percent of marine genera. On the subject of supernova, a year ago a study came out with data from the Chandra X-ray telescope about the center of our galaxy reaching a critical density that would ignite large numbers of supernova. We see supernova in this galaxy once every 100 years, when the center of the Milky Way gets going we will see one every year. Matter from these explosions will be flung out into the galaxy at over 20 million mph. This will be really bad for any potential life bearing worlds that are too close, they will be wiped clean and have to start their evolution over. However, when such matter is flung out by exploding stars it seeds the galaxy with heavier elements which can form new stars and solar systems, the great recycling of life. This chain reaction is said to start in about 200 million years or so. Ideas like this and the case for gamma ray bursts can give credence to mass extinctions throughout the galaxy. A lucky few worlds may have been missed long enough for life to have evolved, like us. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/9/04 10:39pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	So, rumors and speculation lead to confirmation. Space.com: Officials Confirm Details of Bush's Plan for Sending Humans Back to the Moon, on to Mars By Lon Rains and Brian Berger Space News Staff Writers And Leonard David Senior Space Writer posted: 12:30 am ET 10 January 2004 WASHINGTON – U.S. President George Bush on Wednesday will unveil a bold new plan for the future of NASA that will give the agency the green light to start developing the hardware required to return to the Moon and eventually journey on to Mars, government officials told SPACE.com Friday. This ambitious new plan will require Congress to approve billions of dollars in new spending and the elimination of other NASA programs, they said. Bush will ask Congress for an additional $800 million for NASA in the 2005 budget request he will submit this month, they said. The plan also calls for 5 percent annual increases in NASA’s budget beyond 2005. This new direction for the space agency’s human spaceflight program will lead to major changes in NASA’s current priorities, the officials confirmed. Those changes include retiring the shuttle fleet at the end of the decade and replacing it with a new vehicle, which is now called the Orbital Space Plane (OSP). The OSP soon will be renamed the Crew Exploration Vehicle -- the building block of the spacecraft that will be needed to transport crews to and from the moon early in the next decade. The Crew Exploration Vehicle would be launched aboard existing expendable rockets such as the Boeing Delta 4 or Lockheed Martin Atlas 5. Another existing NASA program, Project Prometheus, would continue to be focused on developing nuclear propulsion for interplanetary spacecraft and new long-lasting power sources for future bases. The primary focus of research on the International Space Station (ISS) will be studies related to the new human spaceflight priorities. In addition, the ISS partners will be asked to provide additional expendable rockets to deliver astronauts and supplies to the orbiting laboratory as the space shuttle is phased out after delivering the remaining hardware to be assembled as part of the space station. The officials said this would likely not involve the United States making payments to Russia for Soyuz rockets or Europe for Ariane rockets, but would instead be handled as contributions to the program from the partners. White House spokesman Allen Abney said that Bush will make a space policy announcement Jan. 14 in Washington, but offered no details about either the substance of the speech or the precise venue. Details about the venue for the announcement should be available early next week, he said. Abney would not say what that space policy announcement would entail, nor would he confirm reports that Bush signed a new space policy directive in December. White House confirmation that a space policy announcement was imminent ended months of speculation about the results of an interagency review of space exploration policy begun last year in the wake of the February 2003 loss of shuttle Columbia and her crew. House Science Committee Chairman Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY) said in a statement that he is “eager to hear the President's vision for a revived human space flight program” and looks forward to getting the details Jan. 14. “I applaud the President for focusing on this issue at a critical time in the history of the American space program.” Boehlert said he is convinced the United States needs a new vision for human space flight, but cautioned that budget issues will be of paramount concern to members of his committee and the entire Congress. Those issues concern Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.), a senior member of the Senate appropriations panel that helps set NASA’s budget each year. In a statement, Mikulski applauded Bush for embracing a bold agenda for space, but cautioned there are many questions to be answered in the months ahead, including what will the initiative cost and is it the best investment in science the nation can make. Rep. Bart Gordon, (D-Tenn.), who has been nominated to serve as ranking minority member of the House Science Committee once Congress returns Jan. 20, said in a statement that he supports a return to the moon. He hailed the anticipated announcement as “a welcome direction for a program that has drifted in the decades since Apollo last visited the moon.” News of the announcement was also greeted with enthusiasm by at least two former U.S. government officials closely involved in the first President George Bush’s proposed space exploration initiative. Michael Griffin, who served as NASA’s associate administrator for exploration under the first President Bush, called word of the announcement “tremendously welcome news.” “The next thing that has to happen is there has to be budgetary support in 2005 — substantial budget support,” he said. “The initial indications are there is, but that’s ultimately a matter for the Congress to decide.” Griffin said bipartisan support is critical. “The biggest pitfall the last time around was a lack of bi-partisan consensus,” he said. “We need to get that this time and we need to not fall into the $400 billion cost trap again.” Griffin said the new policy direction is momentous in that it would establish the U.S. as a true spacefaring nation much in the same way that the U.S. decided long ago to become a seafaring nation. “We don’t debate every year whether we should have a navy,” he said. Courtney Stadd, a White House space policy advisor during the first Bush administration and, until recently, NASA Administrator Sean O’Keefe’s chief of staff, said he was very pleased to hear that a bold new direction if forthcoming. “I’m very proud of this president and very proud of this pending announcement to send humans to the moon and Mars,” said Stadd, who left NASA in 2003 to return to industry. Stadd said those goals will not be achieved without substantial changes inside NASA. “Organizations that try to be everything to everybody fail,” he said. “The big challenge [for the White House and NASA] is to accommodate the competing political interests while at the same time keeping themselves laser-focused on carrying out what’s going to be a very resource intensive program.” While the decisions confronting the nation will be anything but easy, the payoff, he said, will be rich. “The great news in all this is we’ve got a potentially reinvigorated human space flight program,” he said. “At same time, no one should kid themselves that the investment and resources are going to come without attention to what programs can be altered or perhaps in some instances even eliminated.” NASA’s largest aerospace contractors, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, also responded favorably to the news, even though it could entail substantial changes for the space shuttle program and the competition to build the Orbital Space Plane. As UPI reported, under the new initiative, NASA would move up the timetable for retiring the space shuttle, putting the system out to pasture as soon as the space station no longer needs its services. At the same time, the Orbital Space Plane program, now in competition with Boeing and Lockheed Martin vying to build the multi-billion dollar system, would morph into a commercially-launched Crew Exploration Vehicle. Ed Meme, a spokesman for Boeing NASA Systems in Houston, said the work the company has done to date on the Orbital Space Plane would not be all for naught, even if NASA does change directions somewhat. “Our approach with OSP has been to designing a system that cannot only service the station but can go beyond low Earth orbit,” Meme said. Meme also pointed out that an Orbital Space Plane request for proposal due out late last year still has not been released. He said Boeing anticipates that any changes to the program would be reflected in the forthcoming solicitation. Michael Coats, vice president of Advanced Space Transportation at the Lockheed Martin Space Systems Co., Denver, agreed that work done so far on Orbital Space Plane would apply to any lunar transport system NASA might want. Coats, a former shuttle commander, was ecstatic that a bold new direction appears to be in the offing, calling it “a big morale boost” even in light of the successful Jan. 3 landing of the Spirit Mars rover the company helped build. “For the first time in 30 years the president is expected to say, ‘here’s where we want you to go and oh by the way, we are going to put some money behind it’,” Coats said. A lack of vision for NASA was cited as a contributing cause of the Feb. 1, 2003 loss of shuttle Columbia. With no rudder to steer the space agency's course in the long term, certain cultural deficiencies crept in and set up the conditions that allowed the shuttle tragedy to take place. It was soon after the accident that Bush, under the leadership of Vice President Dick Cheney, assembled a team to look at the nation's space policy and provide a roadmap that will lead to the sweeping changes expected to be announced next week. Details of the plan were first reported by UPI Jan. 8. Senior Producer Jim Banke contributed to this story from the Cape Canaveral Bureau I like that there is to be no extra cost for the U.S. using the rockets of the other countries who are a part of the ISS. The $40 billion dollar price tag rose to $100 billion from lack of the ability to contribute. Also, money is then moved from shuttle launches to research dollars for this new endevour. This is personally bittersweet for me. Sweet that the space prgram is getting a good kick in the right spot. Bitter because this is what NASA wanted to do 30 years ago. If they had been able to go along as planned from then, many of us would be deciding on the option of careers off the Earth, private businesses would be trying for the Moon and Mars as the X-Prize could have been hundreds of millions for a successfull Moon shot instead of the current $10 million for a sub-orbital craft. Tourism would be in full swing, still a playground for the well to do, but not out of reach for the middle class. Who knows, I may be able to take a ride into space in my lifetime. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/9/04 11:59pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Ah yes, the M2P2 talked about again: PRESS RELEASE Date Released: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 Source: Marshall Space Flight Center Magnetic bubbles in space: A new propulsion concept? Exploration of deep space requires new propulsion technologies that not only reduce travel time, but are cost effective and safe as well. One such proposed technology being developed at The University of Alabama in Huntsville is based on the concept of a sail pushed along by space plasma. The basic ingredients of a plasma sail are a magnetic solenoid and a plasma machine aboard a spacecraft. The plasma machine must be capable of releasing a dense and warm plasma cloud. As the cloud expands, the magnetic field lines generated by the solenoid stretch out because of the diamagnetic nature of the plasma. This stretching creates a magnetic bubble, or balloon. Research reveals that available plasma technologies can stretch the "balloon" to distances of several tens of kilometers, according to UAH Professor Dr. Nagendra Singh. "When this bubble intercepts the solar wind, which is a fast stream of plasma coming from the Sun and permeates all over deep space, a propulsive force acts on the spacecraft in a manner similar to the common sail," he said. Singh is a professor of electrical and computer engineering at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. This concept of a plasma sail is still in the initial stages of development, according to Singh. UAH researchers are developing a computer model to study the basic physics of blowing the magnetic bubble as well as how the force acting on the spacecraft to the interaction of the solar wind with the blown magnetic bubble. "Our modeling efforts include state-of-the-art, fully three-dimensional plasma codes and electromagnetic codes to calculate the force," said Dr. Reza Adhami, chairman of UAH's Electrical and Computer Engineering Department. Singh said the blowing magnetic bubbles might have other applications in space exploration. "Such bubbles can be used as protective shields for astronauts against energetically charged particles commonly found in space," he said. This has had attention in posts here before. It is my favorite propulsion concept. A basic model attached to a 440lbs probe could reach 180,000 mph in a 3 month period. It can be scaled up using multiple devices for faster accelerations and heavier cago, as well as manned transportation throughout the solar system. I have a feeling that Porject Prometheus will take hold of NASA and non-nuclear alternatives will not be exploited. That's fine and effective and faster for acceleration. NASA technology is a shared technology. A private company could make one of their own if it wished. Also, the possible protection from dangerous particles zipping through space is a major plus. It is possible to naviagte to any point in the solar sytem with a light sail or a magnetic bubble sail. You will of course have an outward push but orbital mechanics work via orbital velocity. The planets move in a counter-clockwise direction, when you move faster than the escape velocity for a given distance your orbit gets higher. By angling your sail vehicle against the solar ouput towards the clockwise direction your escape velocity decreases and your orbit will fall in toward the Sun. There is a link in the head post that gives a basic description. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/12/04 1:21pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	A recent poll: AP Poll: U.S. Tepid on Bush's Space Plans By Will Lester Associated Press posted: 03:40 pm ET 12 January 2004 WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush's plan to build a space station on the moon and eventually send astronauts to Mars hasn't grabbed the public's imagination, an Associated Press poll suggests. More than half in the poll said it would be better to spend the money on domestic programs rather than on space research. Asked whether they favored the United States expanding the space program the way Bush proposes, people were evenly split, with 48 percent favoring the idea and the same number opposing it, according to the poll conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs. Most respondents said they generally support continuing to send humans into space. However, given the choice of spending money on programs like education and health care or on space research, 55 percent said they wanted domestic programs. Based on previous estimates for a moon-Mars initiative, the space cost would run in the hundreds of billions of dollars. "You can't have a war, cut taxes, have the economy in a garbage pail and spend billions going into space," said Dallas Hodgins, a 76-year-old retired University of Michigan researcher from Flint, Mich. "How are they going to pay for all this? I don't see how it's morally justifiable. In Flint, there isn't a school roof that doesn't leak." On Wednesday, Bush is scheduled to spell out details of his proposal to use an outpost on the moon as a jumping off point for more remote destinations such as Mars or asteroids. Those most likely to favor the plan to expand space exploration were men, young adults, people with more education and those with higher incomes. It made a difference who was said to be behind the plan. When half the poll sample was asked about a "Bush administration" plan to expand space exploration instead of the "United States" plan, opposition increased. Just over half of Democrats' opposed the plan by "the United States." Once it was identified as a "Bush administration" plan, Democrats opposed it by a 2-to-1 margin. Some have suggested that space exploration could be expanded more inexpensively using robots instead of human astronauts to explore the moon or other planets. The AP-Ipsos poll indicated that option was popular, with 57 percent favoring exploring the moon and Mars with robots and 38 percent saying humans. Despite the mixed response about the moon-Mars proposal, general support for space exploration remains strong. Even after people were reminded of a shuttle accident that killed seven astronauts last February, three-fourths said the United States should continue to send humans into space. Administration officials say the president will call for the retirement of the space shuttles by the end of this decade to make way for the next generation of spacecraft. For many people, the proposal to go back to the moon and beyond arouses the same sense of exploration and adventure the space program captured in its earliest days. "I think it's a great idea," said Paula Steiner, 52 of Jacksonville, Fla. "It's human nature. There's always been an instinct in human beings to explore to see what's going on elsewhere." She said she thinks it's "very important" for the United States to be an international leader in space exploration. "Part of it's mindless patriotism, I suppose," she said, chuckling. "I remember in the early days when we were racing with the Russians. I'd still prefer that we be first." Steiner's view is shared by most Americans. Three-fourths in the poll said they thought it was important for the United States to be the leading country in the world in the exploration of space. Still, only 29 percent of those polled said it was "very important." The AP-Ipsos poll of 1,000 adults was taken Friday through Sunday and had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. ----------------------------------------------------- I could list a number of reasons why humanity needs not just a presence in space, but large populations. So many, from the technology to be gained to the inspiration felt by many. There is energy to be had and resources to be used. But I think a quote from writer Larry Niven gives another VERY good reason to get going: "The dinorsaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Another from Carl Sagan: "Since, in the long run, every planetary civilization will be endangered by impacts from space, every surviving civilization is obliged to become spacefaring--not because of exploratory or romantic zeal, but for the most practical reason imaginable: staying alive... If our long-term survival is at stake, we have a basic responsibility to our species to venture to other worlds." Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994 Oh hell, I'll just throw some out there: "There are so many benefits to be derived from space exploration and exploitation; why not take what seems to me the only chance of escaping what is otherwise the sure destruction of all that humanity has struggled to achieve for 50,000 years?" Isaac Asimov, speech at Rutgers University "Remember this: once the human race is established on more than one planet and especially, in more than one solar system, there is no way now imaginable to kill off the human race." Robert Heinlein, speech at World Science Fiction Convention, 1961 "In my own view, the important achievement of Apollo was a demonstration that humanity is not forever chained to this planet, and our visions go rather further than that, and our opportunities are unlimited." Neil Armstrong, press conference, 1999 "Don't tell me that man doesn't belong out there. Man belongs wherever he wants to go--and he'll do plenty well when he gets there." Wernher von Braun, Time magazine, 1958 -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 1/12/04 4:58pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I wouldn't put too much weight in polls about this plan. I've seen all kinds of numbers pop up, both high and low, about it. From my own experiences talking to people about this, it seems that a large majority want to see us get back to the moon and establish a base there. There's a smaller amount that think we need to head to Mars right now, but still a majority. I'd love to see us go to both the Moon and Mars. There's so much we can get from the trip and just the technological advances alone are worth the cost. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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Iconic Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 1/12/04 5:16pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I like the idea of returning to the moon and eventually setting foot on mars. It's definitely a good idea, since lots of discoveries and inventions made in the space program can be applied in the civilian market to improve the quality of life. Any permanent facility on either body will probably have to be underground to protect habitants from solar radiation, micrometeoroids and the cold. Below ground it would probably be easy to insulate any facility. Just a thought. -----signature----- Any Time I See Something Screech Across A Room And Latch Onto Someone's Neck, And The Guy Screams And Tries To Get It Off, I Have To Laugh, Because What Is That Thing?
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/13/04 12:53am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	That is probably something along the lines of what NASA may seek to build, underground as you mentioned for protection against radiation. This pic is a rather large looking ecosphere, smaller versions the size of individual homes could be made as well. To make this possible we must be able to grow crops and greenery using the Moon's soil. As for the dome an elastic bag by itself won't provide the proper protection, but a double layer dome with water between the layers would work quite well. Also, an aerogel permiated with hydrogen could work just as well and also be lighter to deal with. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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JediMaster22 Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 1/13/04 4:18am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 1/13/04 4:22am (2 edits total) Edited By: JediMaster22
	Rover on Mars will definately be interesting to follow, but this President Bush Space colonization announcement, it makes my extra happy. I am delighted he will fund more to NASA, hope to send human back to the moon, and to Mars One day! Time is just about right, the technology is great, etc. I would like one day, to travel the whole world,then go to outer space to take a look! Dream the Future!!!
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 1/13/04 5:51am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	As i said in the senate, I'm disappointed this announcement is going to be prime time. Now its just going to be a segment on the news. Here's the details. The president is scheduled to make his announcement Wednesday afternoon at NASA headquarters here, according to the White House. NASA TV plans to carry live coverage of the speech starting at 3 P.M. Eastern. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/13/04 1:53pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Ok, this is long, but worth the read(A bit of commentary throughout instead of at the end like usual). Space.com: The Moon: NASA's Proving Ground for Mars Missions and Beyond By Leonard David Senior Space Writer posted: 06:00 am ET 13 January 2004 PASADENA, Calif. -- On Wednesday, the Bush Administration is expected to reveal a long-awaited White House strategy for the future of the United States' space ambitions, one that purportedly includes a NASA go-ahead for returning humans to the Moon as early as 2013. If reports prove correct, the new space agency agenda is not a rewind back to Project Apollo. The soon-to-be-unveiled plan is expected to use the cratered lunar terrain as a literal pit stop on the way to planting footprints on Mars. President Bush has apparently given the green-light to the creation of an Earth-to-Moon transportation link. Robots would first do the heavy-lifting of piecing together and sustaining a human-tended lunar base. Setting up a permanent home-away-from-home on the Moon for astronauts does not appear in the cards, according to some reports. Rather, the lunar landscape is viewed as a close-at-hand practice and proving ground for more adventuresome travel to the red planet. Excuse me, ok fine, a pit stop to Mars. The Moon itself holds power. It is a world unto itself. mars can be the end goal but the Moon is anything but a pitstop. Although wheeled robots don’t fear to tread across the red planet, how humans will fare the trek and trauma of exploring there remains to be seen. While details of the White House strategy are still sketchy, space scientists, a moonwalker, and others don’t mind filling in the blanks. Technologies and techniques The Moon's value lies in its ability to give us both the theoretical knowledge and operational experience of living off-Earth and using space resources," said Paul Spudis, a senior scientist at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) in Laurel, Maryland. "If I were advising the President, I would suggest that he declare that the mission of this new effort is to develop the technologies and techniques to mine, process, and use lunar resources, specifically, the hydrogen and oxygen of the lunar poles," Spudis told SPACE.com . That last paragraph is why the Moon cannot be a pitstop. Using the resources of the Moon requires permanance of presence...human presence. Spudis said that secondary objectives would be to develop the operational strategies using people and machines to maximize the efficiency and results of planetary (lunar) surface operations. "The final goal is to begin to establish an Earth-Moon transport infrastructure, based on the use of lunar resources." Paradigm-shifting moment "If we can go to the Moon and develop this transport system, we will have the ability to go anywhere in the solar system, not just Mars," Spudis explained. Doing so, Spudis added, is a paradigm-shifting moment for the space program. "If we can break the bonds of Earth and re-fuel our spacecraft, both interplanetary and Earth-orbital, our whole way of doing business in space will be forever changed for the better. Our limitations will no longer be driven by the capacity of our launch vehicles, but by our own imaginations," Spudis concluded. "This thing is much bigger than a Mars mission. It is nothing less than a revolution in how we will live and operate on the New Frontier, Spudis concluded. "It's very exciting, and good for the country! I can't wait for the real announcement!" Fuel plants The Bush space plan has the potential to do things in more clever ways than ever done before. That’s the view of Mike Duke, a space resources expert at the Colorado School of Mines in Golden. First of all, a new heavy-lift launch vehicle to get to the Moon isn’t required. But the catch is developing and certifying the production of propellants from lunar resources. Such a fuel plant on the Moon, or perhaps a space propellant depot, could support a transportation system beyond low Earth orbit. "A propellant production capability on the Moon could be established robotically with spacecraft of a scale that is about the same as we are now considering for automated lunar missions," Duke told SPACE.com . Water on the Moon would have made for propellant. But recent tests have shown there is very little if none on the Moon at the poles as has been thought. This means we have to go digging for rocket fuel, otherwise we have to take it with us. Ramifications for Mars Propellant cranked out by this system, Duke added, would be sufficient to reduce the need for launch capability from the Earth by at least a factor of two for a round trip mission to the Moon and a factor of four if a refueling depot is established at the L1 Lagrangian point in deep space. A Lagrangian point is a spot at which a small body, under the gravitational influence of two large bodies, will remain somewhat at rest relative to them. "That is a clever way of doing it, not just depending on brute force, and it would have ramifications for Mars, as well as potential commercial benefits," Duke advised. In the 1970s there was a burst of space colony design inspired by a picture of a rotating station at the Lagrange points. Here is probably th most popular one: This was a huge steal and aluminum thing that caught the imagination of many. This becomes a possibility if lunar and astroidal resources are used, however, such a structure may be created instead with yet to be created nano-assisted lightweight structures. Energy hub University of Houston physicist, David Criswell, has had a longstanding, powerful interest in the Moon. Given the potential for robotic and lunar exploration being restarted, utilizing the Moon as an energy hub is within reach, he said. Criswell has been formulating the plans and the justification for building bases on the Moon to collect solar energy and beam it through space for use by electricity-hungry Earthlings. He is convinced that a Lunar Solar Power (LSP) system can cultivate into being a prosperous world, one that is attainable through clean, safe, low-cost electrical energy. Criswell estimates that by the year 2050, a well-to-do population of 10 billion would require about 20 terawatts of power, or about three to five times the amount of commercial power currently produced. Terawatts of power The Moon receives more than 13,000 terawatts of solar power, and harnessing just one percent could satisfy Earth’s power needs, Criswell said. The challenge is to build a commercial system that can extract a tiny portion of the immense solar power available and deliver the energy to consumers on Earth at a reasonable price. Criswell’s lunar-based system to supply solar power to Earth is based on building large banks of solar cells on the Moon to collect sunlight and send it back to receivers on Earth via a microwave beam. "Even today, most of us don’t seem to realize that the Moon was explored sufficiently 30 years ago for use now," Criswell explains in a recent issue of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) magazine, IEEE Potentials. "We can use the Moon to provide an enormous flow of net new, useful work. We can move from depleting the Earth and the biosphere to sustaining, nurturing, and protecting it," Criswell argues. Btw, building such a huge solar power array would aslo allow us to make interstellar travel a reality. Example Specific to the rolling out of the Bush space program, Criswell is hopeful something wonderful is about to happen. "This week President Bush can create a real space program. Now, our space program is based on Earth and supported exclusively on the backs of taxpayers. Bush and the U.S. Congress can enable U.S. companies to establish new lunar industries as part of a permanent U.S. base on the Moon," Criswell told SPACE.com. Those companies can build lunar solar power bases, Criswell pointed out. Within fifteen years Earth can begin shifting to clean, affordable, and sustainable lunar solar electric power. Criswell said that power beaming from the Moon can also open up a new era of deep space exploration. "Lunar industries can build and power real spacecraft that safely and affordably let people travel throughout the solar system and live and work about Mars, Venus, and the major moons and asteroids," Criswell predicted. A real space program will let our next generation look back on President Bush’s announcement as humankind’s real ‘Independence Day’, he said. Contradictory rumors Robert Zubrin, head of the Mars Society, a space advocacy group, said rumors are contradictory as to what mix of Moon/Mars the President will actually announce. "NASA needs a goal, and that goal should be humans to Mars," Zubrin said. The goal needs to "real". "It must be sufficiently imminent in character to force NASA to change its spending from its current random activity to focused action to develop, build and fly a coherent set of hardware to implement the program plan," Zubrin said. Zubrin is author of the recently released book, Mars on Earth: The Adventures of Space Pioneers in the High Arctic (Published by J. P. Tarcher; September 2003). Zubrin was actually in the Arctic with an actaul habiat design for mars he is testing out. They actually did not go outside at all unless they had a spce suit on. Mars via the Moon Using lunar missions as an intermediate milestone to test out and exercise a subset of the needed humans-to-Mars hardware -- that approach is fine, Zubrin said. However, commonality of hardware for both the Moon and Mars is essential, Zubrin emphasized. "This overall coherence needs to be designed into the program from the start," he said. Some speculation has already surfaced that an Apollo 8-like -- humans around Mars but not land -- is being discussed. "The Mars mission must actually go to Mars. Missions that simply fly by Mars, go into Mars orbit, or to the Martian moons are insufficient," Zubrin stressed. "The purpose of sending humans to Mars is not to set a new altitude record for the aviation almanac. The purpose is to explore and pioneer a new world. This can only be done with astronauts on the Martian surface." Getting our ‘lunar space legs’ back Jack Schmitt, Apollo 17 astronaut – he and Gene Cernan were the last humans to set foot on the Moon – said that his first inclination is to support a modernization and upgrading of Apollo concepts to reach for the Moon again – including a Saturn 6 booster, and transition to less conservative trajectories "as we get our lunar space legs back." Schmitt said that going to the Moon accelerates going to Mars in a number of ways. Just for starters: you get a low cost, heavy lift booster into the inventory, perhaps largely paid for by private investors if you do it right; you get helium-3 fusion technology that can be adapted to an Earth-orbit to Mars-orbit continuous acceleration-deceleration rocket; you get lunar hydrogen, water, oxygen and food to reduce the Earth launch mass until a Mars settlement is self-sufficient; you get Mars surface facilities designs derived from lunar designs that will have indefinite life engineered into their construction and maintenance strategies; and you get experience in working in deep space again, a much less forgiving environment than earth-orbit. "I pray that the White house will insist that the effort be a partnership with private investors, based on the commercial potential of helium-3 fusion, as well as the ‘bridging businesses’ to get there," Schmitt said. The White House must in fact DEMAND it, or else this will never be cheap enough to take non-astronauts. Trigger opportunities America’s possible return to the Moon next decade has already stirred interest in international quarters. How the Bush space strategy encompasses the role of other space faring nations is not fully known at the moment. Nevertheless, President Bush’s lunar initiative "can challenge space agencies" and "trigger opportunities for ongoing activities and collaborations", says Bernard Foing, Executive Director of the International Lunar Exploration Working Group (ILEWG). Europe is presently on its way to the Moon, with the European Space Agency’s SMART-1 technology mission, launched late last year. "SMART-1 will provide opportunities for scientific research, mapping of lunar resources, and studying potential sites for future landings and lunar bases", Foing said. International robotic village ILEWG has identified a "roadmap for lunar exploration", with a progressive approach, starting with precursor missions such as SMART-1. Japanese, Chinese and Indian space agencies are preparing to launch lunar probes from 2004 to 2008. Foing said that for ILEWG, a second phase will be to deploy a series of robotic lunar landers. These craft are slated to perform new investigations, to return lunar samples that help decipher the history of our own Earth, and to test exploration technologies for future lunar and planetary missions. These autonomous robotic landers will be controlled from Earth with tele-presence and virtual reality, Foing said. As a third phase, ILEWG envisages an "international robotic village" around 2015. Advanced landers and rovers from various space agencies would share facilities for exploiting local resources, producing energy, conducting life support experiments, and deploying infrastructure in preparation for human arrivals. Get ready to invest in tech stocks that feature robotics. Every dollar NASA spends translates into seven dollars into the commercial tech economy. NASA goin all out on robots is going to spur major advancements in that field far beyond "Battlebots and Legobots" Live off the lunar land ILEWG sees a fourth phase around the 2020 time period with a permanently inhabited lunar base, to conduct research, to exploit lunar resources, to learn to live off the lunar land, and to test technologies for voyages to Mars. The European Space agency is also defining an exploration program dubbed Aurora. That program calls for a series of missions leading to humans on the Moon and Mars. "An international lunar base before 2020 is possible", Foing added, depending on the demand of the public and commitment of political actors from space-faring nations. Reservations, if a governemnt agency is at the healm, us regular folks won't go. If Burt Rutan is the first jump for citizens to go into space then perhaps various companys will by into the space tourism gig and access to orbit will become cheaper. It is also possible that as businesses start to exploit the Lunar/asteroidal resources they may hire and train people to pilot and man various craft for mining purposes. Sort of like how the trucking industy works. Despite my misgivings about the limitations about us regualr folks going into space, I am of course all for this endevour. Go NASA GO!! -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/14/04 2:03pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	"We have pros and cons. The opposite of pro is con. So, the opposite of progress is Congress."--Gallagher I hope that joke does not hold true. Bush has made his proposal, now Congress has to take a swing at it. The last I had read, Bush has alot of support in the government for this. I'm optomistic this will really happen. JFK had a comment in his famous Moon speech(you can read the whole thing on the last page or two): "If we are to go only half way, or reduce our sights in the face of difficulty, in my judgment it would be better not to go at all." Bush must make sure that his plan goes on even if the political environment changes, it must go on if he is not re-elected, it must go on beyond his possible second term. I have heard a number of times today on the radio people talking about helium3, 4 billion a ton, of which could power the U.S. for a month as a fusion fuel source. Fission has 1,000 times the power of chemical fuels, fusion has 1,000 times the power content of fission. We have not made fusion work yet, but perhaps with the proper fuel the old prediction that comes up every 20 years of 'In 20 years we will have fusion" might actually be true this time. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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