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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 1/26/04 6:07am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	The overall concept sounds feasible to me but there would be a problem with the orbit transfers of suborbital vehicles. Any LEO requires a certain amount of speed relative to the surface of the earth. Usually the higher orbit you desire the less the relative ground speed is but you're gonna need more speed and altitude to reach these orbits. But you still need a lot of speed to reach these orbits. That's the problem with suborbital flights, most of their speed is used to go vertical rather than going fast vertical and horizontal as the shuttle does. An Xprize vehicle would need to be able to reach these orbital speeds just like any other LEO craft. Its in the basics of orbital mechanics which are different to describe without pics. I guess it'd be kinda like trying to jump up into a low flying airplane. In order to do it successfully, you'd have to jump and sideways at the same speed the plane is flying. The basic concept would work if you used a vehicle capable of reaching the ISS but not having enough energy/thrust to reach the higher geostationary orbit. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 1/27/04 5:48am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Here's some pics of a few of the Boeing concepts for the moon program. Boeing -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 1/27/04 11:04am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	VLM. Here's a link that might help explain how a variant on what you're asking might work. Sounds tough to do but not impossible using this and some form of what you were asking..getting suborbital cargo into orbit. tethers -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 1/27/04 10:05pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	What would be the advantages to using an inflatable compartment rather then a regular metal one? I imagine that it would take up less space during the journey and weigh less, but wouldn't it be more dangerous? -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/28/04 7:29pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Ah yes, the orbiting tether. I never liked this idea as it seems to dramatic. Or perhaps too dynamic. The analogy you gave about trying to jump on a plane while it is moving becomes even more extreme when the plane would be doing an analogous loop-to-loop while you were trying to jump on. I'll have to go over the NASA tutorial on orbital mechanics again, it's been awhile. But my understanding was that a vehicle moving at 24,000 mph at GEO would have the same orbit time as a vehicle moving at 17,000 at LEO. The space elevator concept simply connects the two via a shaft of unobtanium. A LEO station dropping a cable down to sub-orbit altitude would just be taking the whole elevator concept down a notch from GEO to LEO, then connecting it to Earth. ------------------------------- Inflatables off the top of my head; would be created using a polyurathane(sp) which has some wonderful radiation protection since it contains alot of hydrogen. Also, as you asked, it would be lighter, cheaper, and easier to transport and put into place. An aerogel permiated with hydrogen is another idea on the drawing boards somewhere for such protection. The good thing about polyurathane or aerogels is that you could use them in a variety of ways, a couple of examples such as an extra layer in a space suit, and a layer within the hull of a space craft. Both would be reduced in weight which is a must for space travel of any sort. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 1/29/04 5:32am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I think that orbiting tether is fairly unrealistic myself. I think it'd be easier just to have a more capable spacecraft that'd be capable of getting those things into the higher orbit. An elevator would be very useful at building a large space station though. Another advantage of inflatables is their relative low upmass and volume. Otherwise you have to take up premade panels and structure which you have to put together. This is one tech that will certainly be looked at when building a moon base. This new tech may have many benefits here on home. Without the new iniative, many of this tech would never be looked at so that's a good benefit of setting up the moon base. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/29/04 5:20pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Fly My Stuff to the Moon: Private Mission Slated for Fall Launch By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 07:00 am ET 29 January 2004 Thousands of people have paid to have messages, business cards, art or ashes of loved ones sent to the Moon on the Trailblazer robotic probe, which if successful will slam into the lunar surface and squash any doubt about the looming commercialization of space. The mission is a private venture of California-based TransOrbital Inc., which is also drawing on corporate sponsorships and advertising to fund the effort. After years of delay, launch is now slated for this fall, company President Dennis Laurie said in a telephone interview yesterday. Individuals can book items for the flight at the company's web site, transorbital.net. Sending a business card to the Moon costs $2,500. Other relics or mementos can fly for $2,500 per gram. A text message costs $17. Trailblazer will orbit the Moon for about three months, sending back high-quality and potentially saleable photos of Apollo landing sites, plus HDTV-quality video that might be sold for advertising use. Data will be collected to create a new, high-resolution lunar map, also potentially saleable. The craft will then de-orbit and disintegrate upon impact. Some 22 pounds (10 kilograms) of personal effects will remain intact, housed in a protective capsule that will tunnel 13-16 feet (4-5 meters) into the lunar surface. TransOrbital plans to make money off this and future planned missions to the Moon by selling advertisements and sponsorships in addition to the revenue it collects on its web site. Additional revenue could come from Trailblazer's lunar map, which will be the highest resolution ever and could help NASA and other private firms plan future lunar forays, he said. The mission is expected to cost less than $20 million. Critics of the project have expressed worry about littering the Moon. Most of the critics, Laurie said, are environmentalists "who would like to make sure the Moon won't suffer some of the ungracious treatment the Earth has experienced." TransOrbital has been addressing the environmental concerns from the outset, he said, and the Trailblazer mission is the only private, beyond-Earth-orbit spaceflight plan presently approved by State Department. The agency required TransOrbital show that the impact "wouldn't disturb the normal environment in any untoward way," he said. ------------------------------------------------ This article was edited for length. If you want to read the rest go to Space.com. Transorbital is where you can go to send a text message to the Moon for a few dollars. This seems to be the current rage in space travel. Right now the twin rovers on Mars carry millions of names etched into DVDs. Previous Mars rovers actually have recorded messages from people like Arthur C. Clarke and Carl Sagan. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/30/04 5:10am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Spacedaily: Japan to change space policy, aims manned mission: report: TOKYO (AFP) Jan 29, 2004 Spurred by China's success in its first-ever manned space flight, Japan plans a drastic review of its space policy and will consider launching manned space trips as well, a report said Thursday. The government will "consider realising a manned space flight by a Japanese astronaut at an early time", the Yomiuri Shimbun daily said in its evening edition, without indicating a timeframe. The government's science and technology council, chaired by Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, is expected to agree to draw up a new policy by mid-2004, the mass-circulation daily said without citing sources. Japan had decided to review its space policy primarily because China had succeeded in putting a man into space last October and US President George Bush announced this month a US return to the moon as early as 2015, it said. But the daily added some government officials are cautious towards manned flight programmes as they would need to boost the space development budget, currently totalling a relatively paltry 300 billion yen (2.8 billion dollars) a year. No immediate comment on the report was available from the science ministry. In November Japan failed to put a pair of spy satellites into orbit, dashing hopes of using its domestically-developed H2-A rocket to become a player in the commercial satellite launch market. Here is a test firing of the H2-A rocket Last year the ESA said it would invigorate its space program, China made a manned launch, Russia is interested in renewing real space efforts, now Japan has made a statement. I don't think I can call most of this a space race, there seems to be a concensus that the world needs to get space exploration going to greater heights but at the moment there is alot of bustling about as countries decide what they want to do. One Russian official loves Bush's plan but another, the chief of Russia's space program, hates the Bush plan. Seems to me that the ISS now has another mark against it. It was to be a consortium of countries on the space station. Instead, it could have been a consortium to go to Mars and/or the Moon. Rob Zubrin has had critics, but I think NASA and other space agencies should embrace his ideas, although I disagree with Zubrin's idea that the Moon is something where "we have been there and done that." -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/31/04 5:59am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	NASA Seeks $16.2 Billion; Cuts Shuttle, Station, Next Generation Launch Tech Programs By Brian Berger Space News Staff Writer posted: 08:00 pm ET 30 January 2004 U.S. President George W. Bush is requesting $16.2 billion for NASA in 2005, including $1.09 billion designated for the new organization being created to carry out the president’s new vision for space exploration, according to NASA budget documents obtained by Space News. The money in the budget of the new exploration enterprise, as it is known at NASA, is not for all new programs, but includes funding for existing programs that will now fall under the new exploration bureaucracy. It includes $483 million for Project Prometheus, the nuclear power and propulsion program started in 2003 and $428 million for Project Constellation, the new name for the proposed Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV). While the CEV is a new program, it replaces a similar effort known as the Orbital Space Plane. Constellation huh? I am assuming this is just the project name and not the name of the vehicle. There is an article out there about the 'non-exciting' name of CEV and that it doesn't have the 'oomph' that 'Spacehuttle' or 'Venturestar' has. Oh well. Bush’s request includes a five-year projection that calls for annual budget increases at NASA each year until the agency’s budget levels off at about $18 billion a year starting in 2009. When Bush announced Jan. 14 that NASA’s new goal was to prepare for a return to the moon and an eventual mission to Mars, he pledged that the bulk of the money needed to start that effort would come from $11.6 billion that would be shifted over the next five years from other NASA programs. The five-year plan outlined in Bush’s 2005 budget request details exactly where that money would come from: There ar numerous critics who say that this dedicated budget is not enough money but they lack details in their assement. -$5.9 billion by phasing out or transferring to the new effort funding previously set aside for existing launch programs such as the Orbital Space Plane and the Next Generation Launch Technology program, an effort to develop reusable launch vehicle technology; -$1.5 billion from the shuttle program; -$1.2 billion by eliminating research aboard the international space station that is not tied to the president’s new exploration vision; -$2.7 billion by deferring the start of several planned new missions, including the Global Precipitation Measuring Mission, solar terrestrial probes and Beyond Einstein, a group of planned astronomy missions designed to investigate the origin and nature of phenomena like dark matter and black holes. In addition, spending on several Earth Science missions and Sun-Earth Connection missions will be held flat through 2009; and It sounds to me here that the CEV will not even start being phyisically created until after the shuttle is retired and the space station obligation is shifted to Russia. Details like this seem to escape critics. -$300 million from reducing space technology development and deferring institutional activities such as the construction of new facilities at NASA field centers. The budget request also outlines a number of other changes in major agency programs. The Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter, which had been planned for a launch in 2011 or 2012 will slip a couple of years to about 2015, according to a NASA chart that accompanies the budget request. Ok, that sucks. If ever there was a mission I wanted to see done on time this was it. The space shuttle and international space station would get $4.3 billion in 2005, including $200 million for dedicated return-to-flight activities. NASA plans to spend $680 million through 2007 on space shuttle changes in the wake of the Columbia accident. The space station budget request also includes $10 million in new funding for "a flight demonstration initiative to pursue launch services with emerging launch systems." Industry and government sources said that money is earmarked for start-up firms such as Kistler Aerospace and Space Exploration Technologies.The budget also includes $70 million in funding for robotic lunar missions. According to budget documents, NASA plans to spend $420 million through 2009 on lunar exploration missions. Kistler is a non government launch company competing for the X-Prize. It is a good thing that NASA would be allowed to assist in private companies. NASA plans to launch a robotic lunar orbiter in 2008 and a lunar lander in 2009. In addition, the New Horizons mission to Pluto remains funded. Mars appears to be a big winner. It’s $691 million budget request for 2005 — $84 million more than it expected at this time last year -- includes $175 million, a nearly 50 percent increase for the 2009 Mars Science Laboratory, a nuclear powered rover in development. I provided info on the 2009 Mars rover in a recent post, check it out. It also includes $25 million to continue development of the 2009 Mars Telesat Orbiter. An additional $56 million was included in the budget for a laser communications demonstration payload on the 2009 Telesat mission. Slightly off track here, but laser comms are a way that a technological civilization may "go silent" in that no radio leakage would occur of all information, media, entertainment etc were transferred via laser. There is an optical SETI search but unless a laser is directed for the very purpose of contacting another solar system then that system will become undetectable by the current optical SETI format. Under Bush’s request, NASA’s 2005 Earth Sciences budget would drop $41 million to $1.485 billion in 2005. The decline is set to continue through 2008 before bumping up slightly to $1.474 billion in 2009. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/31/04 6:15am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	MasterA, the following actuall comes form the Marshall Space Center in August of 2000. I just happened upon it looking at a page called sciencetral.com. The LEO space elevator is an intermediate version of the Earth surface to GEO space elevator concept, and appears to be feasible today using existing high-strength materials and space technology. It works by placing the system's midpoint station, and center of gravity, in a relatively low-Earth orbit and extending one cable down so that it points toward the center of the Earth and a second cable up so that it points away from the Earth. The bottom end of the lower cable hangs down to just above the Earth's atmosphere such that a future space plane flying up from the Earth's surface would require 2.5 km/sec less change in velocity than a single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) vehicle launched directly to LEO. The space plane and LEO space elevator combination would likely be able to carry 10 to 12 times the payload as an equivalent-sized SSTO launch vehicle without the LEO space elevator. The length of the upper cable is chosen so that its endpoint is traveling at slightly less than Earth escape velocity for its altitude. This is done so that a spacecraft headed for higher orbit, the Moon, or beyond, can be placed in the proper orbit with only minimal use of its onboard propellant. The overall length of a LEO space elevator from the bottom end of its lower cable to the top end of its upper cable is anywhere from 2,000 to 4,000 km, depending on the amount of launch vehicle velocity reduction desired. For example, a 2,200-km-long system provides a 1.6-km/sec reduction in launch vehicle velocity, while a 3,000-km-long system gives a 2-km/sec reduction, and a 3,800-km-long system offers a 2.3-km/sec reduction. It should be possible to launch a LEO space elevator in segments using existing launch systems. Once on orbit the LEO space elevator would then use its own onboard propulsion system to raise itself to the necessary orbital altitude while reeling out the upward and downward pointing cables as it went. Another advantage of this system is that as the market expands and materials improve, it could continue to grow in length and diameter, further reducing launch velocity and increasing system payload capacity. It even appears possible to grow the LEO space elevator into the full-length, 35,000-km-plus space segment length of the Earth surface to GEO space elevator if that were desired. Those are just snippets, the entire page is HERE and it also talks about other planetary elevators. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/1/04 11:20am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	US remembers fallen astronauts of Columbia shuttle disaster: Spacedaily.com WASHINGTON (AFP) Feb 01, 2004 The United States planned memorials Sunday and Monday for the seven Columbia shuttle astronauts who died last year when their ship disintegrated over Texas and Louisiana. On February 1, 2003, startling pictures of the shuttle falling like a shooting star dominated news broadcasts, shocking the country. The country was to remember the tragedy in somber ceremonies and during the United States' annual sports extravaganza, the 38th American football Super Bowl. The crew included Rick Husband, Willie McCool, Michael Anderson, David Brown, Laurel Clark, Kalpana Chawla and Ilan Ramon, Israel's first astronaut. On Monday, NASA will dedicate a memorial to the astronauts at Arlington Memorial Cemetery in Virginia. NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe will preside over a private ceremony for the victims' families and other guests. Later in the evening, the Columbia Shuttle Memorial Trust and NASA will host a private gathering at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington to celebrate the seven astronauts' lives. Before Sunday's Super Bowl, CBS television planned to show the rock group Aerosmith visiting NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, earlier this week. The group was scheduled to perform a tribute song for the Columbia crew. The Astronauts of the next NASA space shuttle mission were scheduled to be recognized on the football field after another tribute song from pop star Josh Groban. But one year after the tragedy, which demoralized the space program, there is renewed optimism at NASA. The two Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, have recently sent images from the planet that have flabbergasted NASA scientists. Earlier in January, President George W. Bush unveiled a bold new space initiative that included replacing the shuttle fleet by 2010 with ships that can travel by 2015 to the moon and eventually to Mars. NASA, which lost the Challenger in a take-off explosion in 1986, is already planning new shuttle flights. The fleet is down to three ships, Atlantis, Discovery and Endeavor. A scathing report from an independent investigation found flaws in NASA's command and decision-making. A task force formed later, the Return-to-Flight Task Group, said on January 20 that NASA had not implemented all of the recommendations from the investigation and that it was unclear when new space flights could resume. But NASA hopes to be ready for a new mission in September. Air Force pilot Eileen Collins is the crew leader for the space program's next manned flight. The crew would leave on a 13-day mission aboard Atlantis to the international space station. Collins said she is confident NASA will overcome the Columbia tragedy. "If I didn't think something was safe and I wasn't satisfied, then I have ways of dealing with that," the mother of two said. "Frankly, what I tell my family is: If I didn't feel it was safe, I wouldn't go." ----------------------------------------------------- Former Astronaut Jim Lovell participated in four NASA space missions: Gemini 7, Commander of Gemini 12, Command Module Pilot and Navigator of Apollo 8 and Commander of the ill-fated Apollo 13. He is the author of the book "Lost Moon" which chronicles his experiences during the Apollo 13 mission. Commentary: 'It's Time to Soar Again' By James Lovell posted: 08:00 am ET 01 February 2004 January 30, 2004 A year ago, we lost seven explorers. The crew of Columbia -- Rick, Willie, Mike, Dave, K.C., Laurel and Ilan -- were dedicated to exploration. They went into space understanding both the inherent risks and the enormous potential benefits, and enthusiastically carried out their mission. The STS-107 crew embodied a calling that is deeply rooted in the human soul -- the desire to climb to the top of the mountain, to travel beyond the horizon, and to comprehend and appreciate the whole of our universe. As we reflect on their achievements and their courage, we must honor their dedication and their humanity, and begin once again to look forward, onward and upward. Our most immediate goal must be to get the Space Shuttle flying safely again, consistent with the recommendations of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, and honor our commitments to completing the International Space Station. The Space Shuttle is a magnificent and complex vehicle, and while we must be ever vigilant about minimizing its vulnerabilities, it is ideally suited to this task and will get the job done. Our obligations to our international partners and to the American taxpayers must not go unfulfilled. The very worthwhile dream of a world-class scientific laboratory in space will be realized, and its benefits will stream earthward for many years to come. But I believe we must look farther ahead and deeper into the cosmos. We’ve trolled the shallows of low-Earth orbit long enough, and I agree with President Bush that the time has come to set sail once again on the seas of space. I had the incredible fortune of making two trips to the Moon during the Apollo Program. But I think all of us who shared that privilege realized that what we were doing was just the beginning. We certainly didn’t envision the very long pause in building upon what we had done, but we enthusiastically welcome the new vision that President Bush has set forth for NASA and the nation. How do we proceed? How do we build momentum? I think the correct approach is to explore incrementally, just as the President suggests, one small step at a time. We must aim high, carefully measure our progress, and doggedly pursue the ultimate goal of extending human presence across the solar system. The International Space Station will serve well as a laboratory for understanding how people in space adapt to that unforgiving environment. Before we send men and women on journeys to Mars and beyond, we must be able to quantify and ultimately mitigate the effects, both physiological and psychological, of long duration space exploration. The ISS is the perfect place to do this work. At the same time, we must continue a robust program of robotic exploration, as exemplified by the recent success of the Mars Exploration Rovers. As we plan for future human missions to the Moon and beyond, our robot scouts will guide us to resources in space and on other bodies in the solar system that our astronauts can process to provide air and water, and perhaps even rocket fuel for their return trips. Like Lewis and Clark two centuries ago, future space explorers will learn to live off the land. When we return humans to the lunar surface in the next decade, we undoubtedly will build on the science of Apollo, seeking to understand the formation of the Moon and the early history of the solar system. But, perhaps more importantly, we will use the Moon as a test bed for the new technologies that will allow us to venture farther. The Moon is far closer to home than Mars, and it’s best that we thoroughly understand the requirements of human interplanetary travel before we set out on those perilous journeys. As we move one step at a time out into the universe, we will also be doing something very important right here at home. The immediate benefit will be high technology jobs and the expansion of our industrial base. America has always been at the technological vanguard and this new program of exploration will insure our pre-eminence as we push across new frontiers. Perhaps the most significant benefit of all is that a renewed sense of purpose in our space program will sow the seeds of inspiration for the next generation of inventors, scientists, innovators and, yes, explorers. President Kennedy referred to the Apollo Program as "Mankind’s greatest adventure." As an astronaut who made those journeys, I’d like to think he was correct. But as I look at the limitless vistas ahead, I have to believe that the greatest adventures are yet to come. We must continue the journey which has only just begun. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/2/04 11:24am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Hubblesite.org: News Nugget: February 2, 2004 Oxygen and Carbon Found in Atmosphere of an Extrasolar Planet NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has detected, for the first time ever, the presence of oxygen and carbon in the atmosphere of a planet outside our solar system. The oxygen naturally exists and is not produced by any sort of life on the gaseous hot world, astronomers caution. Nevertheless, it is a promising demonstration that the chemical composition of atmospheres on planets many light-years away can be measured. This could someday lead to finding the atmospheric biomarkers of life on extrasolar planets. The oxygen and carbon are bleeding off the gas-giant extrasolar planet HD 209458b, orbiting a star lying 150 light-years from Earth. HD 209458b is only 4.3 million miles from its Sun-like star, completing an orbit in less than 4 days. It belongs to a class of planets called "hot Jupiters." Astronomers previously discovered that the upper atmosphere is so hot it boils hydrogen off into space. Astronomers used the Hubble Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph to discover a rugby-ball shaped evaporating envelope of oxygen and carbon. Analysis of the starlight passing through the envelope shows it is being ripped off by the extreme "hydrodynamic drag" created by its evaporating hydrogen atmosphere. The planet has been dubbed "Osiris" after the Egyptian god that lost part of his body — like HD 209458b — after having been killed and cut into pieces by his brother to prevent his return to life. The planet HD 209458b is the first transiting planet discovered, the first extrasolar planet known to have an atmosphere, the first extrasolar planet observed to have an evaporating hydrogen atmosphere, and now the first extrasolar planet found to have an atmosphere containing oxygen and carbon. The Hubble team led by Alfred Vidal-Madjar (Institut d'Astrophysique de Paris, CNRS, France) is reporting this discovery in a forthcoming issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters. ------------------------------------------------------ At some point astronomers wish to launch an interferometer which will have a baseline resolution of of a few thousand miles via several orbiting telescopes. It will not only be able to measure the content of an extra-solar atmosphere, but will be able to take a picture a few pixels across of Earth-sized worlds. When the time comes that we have the energy and know-how to send a probe to another star we will already have targets. The above article is about Hubble. Hubble is in trouble under the new Bush plan and servicing missions have been halted. There has been a bit of an outcry against this from astronomers to senators. It is being looked at again, but most seem to think that Hubble's time is almost over. On a side note, I sent a question to an astronomy web page where you can get answers and possibly have your question posted on the web site. It is done in the same way Badastronomy.com is. Here was my question and their answer: Q > What is the effect of time dilation on a photon? If there is an end > of some sort to the Universe, does a photon experience this end > because time has halted for it? If I were transformed into a ray of > light what would I experience? A There is infinite time dilation for a photon since it is traveling at the speed of light. In other words from the point of view of the photon, time does not pass at all (halted as you have put it). There is actually no concept called the "end" of the Universe, and you can browse through the questions in the cosmology section of our website (http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/cosmology.php) about it. I cannot tell as to what you would experience if you became a ray of light. We "think" because we have brain, etc. all of which have a finite rest mass, and only an object with zero rest mass can travel at the speed of light. So, you can conjure up anything as to what you will experience. Jagadheep I had gotten curious about this from a book series called Wild Cards in which a particular superhero named Pulse could turn into a laser. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 2/2/04 12:10pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I missed your 1/31 post VLM. That concept of the elevator does sound interesting. The group that studies the concept is based here. I can see how theoretically how it could work and can also many probs with doing that but its not impossible. I still think you won't gain much by using a suborbital craft because the technology required to put such a system in place would dictate you have a heavy lift capable vehicle in place. IF that is so why not just use that craft to get cargo to a higher point on the elevator. There's got to be some trade offs though. Having a suborbital capability would mean more access for more people/companies though. Interesting stuff. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/3/04 3:34pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	^The most interesting prospect is that many see this configuration as a means to get costs down to $100 per pound or less. <----- And now.....HEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEE'SSS EUROPE: Europe Plans Human Missions to Moon and Mars By Jane Wardell Associated Press posted: 05:10 pm ET 03 February 2004 Like U.S. President George W. Bush's proposed mission to Mars, the plan put forward by the European Space Agency involves a "stepping stone'' approach, which includes robotic missions and a manned trip to the Moon first. The ESA has planned two flagship missions to Mars _ ExoMars would land a rover on the planet in 2009, and Mars Sample Return would bring back a sample of the Martian surface in 2011-14. Other test missions will include a non-manned version of the flight that would eventually carry astronauts to Mars to demonstrate aerobraking, solar electric propulsion and soft landing technologies. A human mission to the Moon, proposed for 2024, would demonstrate key life-support and habitation technologies, as well as aspects of crew performance and adaptation to long-distance space flight. The program is expected to cost about 900 million euros (US$1.13 billion) over the next five years. Professor Colin Pillinger, the British scientist behind the recent ill-fated Beagle 2 expedition, said it was important to determine whether life existed on Mars before pressing ahead with a manned mission. "Would it be right for us to tamper with the ecology on another body?'' he asked. "My opinion is that it probably wouldn't.'' Ok now, here's the thing. Bush wants us on Mars by 2020, Europe wants Mars by 2024. Let's also not forget the Japanese and the Russians who have spoken up recently. There are two options: 1. As Bush invited everyone to, everyone get together and we ALL do it. The only problem is who would be in charge(America would if accepted) and could these countries get together and go to the Moon and Mars when they have shown the ISS has been a major headache for everyone concerned. One thing NASA needs to do is listen to the Russians. They have much more space station experiance and just a more relaxed know how. I honestly think that if Russian had the economy of the U.S. they would have already been to Mars many times. Also, Bush just brought in a board of advisors, Robert Zubrin was not one of them. This guy just spent years in the Antarctic researching needed Mars colony techniques. Get him. 2. Forget the togetherness stuff and have a space race. "We wanna be there first!" is a strong motivator. As odd as it sounds, it will probably be a combo of the two with emphasis on the first option, especially the U.S. in charge part. The good thing about all this, everyone wants to go and they want to get started NOW. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/3/04 3:49pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	NASA aiding private launch company: By Brian Berger Space News Staff Writer posted: 06:05 pm ET 03 February 2004 WASHINGTON -- Eager to find new ways to ferry cargo to and from the international space station, NASA plans to pay a U.S. company $227.4 million for the demonstration of a reusable rocket that has been in development since the satellite boom of the 1990s. NASA announced Feb. 2 that it intends to exercise a 2001 contract with Kirkland, Wash.-based Kistler Aerospace Corp. to buy pre- and post-flight data from demonstrations of the company’s K-1 reusable launch vehicle. The award, according to NASA, is not for actual launch services to the station, but for the data from a series of flight demonstrations meant to show that a recoverable launcher can reliably approach an orbiting platform such as the space station and safely attach to it. Kistler had been lobbying NASA for months to pay for a demonstration flight designed to prove that the K-1 could serve as a space station re-supply vehicle. About a dozen NASA officials, led by the agency’s chief rocket buyer, traveled to Kistler’s Kirkland, Wash.-based headquarters in mid-July for a briefing on how the K-1 could be brought into service as a space station resupply vehicle in as little as two years with no financial risk to NASA. According to the notice NASA posted on the Federal Business Opportunities Web site, the agency “has a requirement for data to demonstrate the ability of commercial launch systems to support [the international space station] with up-and down-mass capability as soon as practical.” NASA wants this data, according to the notice, by the end of 2006. NASA spokeswoman Melissa Mathews said as much as $54.2 million of the contract is payable to Kistler before conducting its first launch. The remaining $173.2 million, Mathews said, is tied to the successful conduct of flight demonstrations. Kistler is not the only private company trying to sell NASA on commercial space station resupply services that have a potential to help with the agency’s new exploration goals. Boeing and Lockheed Martin have been studying re-supply concepts that would take advantage of existing expendable rockets, as have a number of smaller companies, including Seattle, Wash.-based Andrews Space & Technology and Woodland Hills, Calif.-based Constellation Services International Inc. All four companies had been developing competing resupply concepts under NASA’s Alternate Access to Station project. Those study contracts expired Feb.1. Kistler has the advantage of having an existing contract with NASA for flight demonstrations and a launch vehicle that is designed and partially built. Kistler still holds a contract NASA awarded in 2001 under the now defunct Space Launch Initiative to provide the U.S. space agency with flight results from a series of proposed test flights and technology demonstrations. The contract included more than a dozen options NASA could exercise through the end of 2005, including buying flight data from an autonomous rendezvous demonstration of the K-1. The K-1 is a two-stage, liquid-fueled rocket that is designed to be fully reusable. Although originally designed as a commercial launcher for a low Earth orbit satellite market that largely failed to materialize, Kistler officials believe the K-1 could easily deliver a cargo-laden upper stage to the international space station. Numerous components of the vehicle have been built and tested. But by all accounts, Kistler still requires several hundred million dollars to complete the vehicle and conduct an initial launch. The company also filed last summer to re-organize its finances under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. The filing listed claims against Kistler totaling $604.3 million, including $99 million owed to Aerojet, the Sacramento, Calif.-based propulsion company supplying Russian-designed engines for the K-1. Kistler Aerospace I don't know why I was never a fan of Kistler, maybe the artist in me doesn't like their design. But, if it makes it cheap for the rest of us then so be it. If Kistler could become NASA's ISS transport then they will get out of debt fast. Roton was a victim of the same thing Kistler was....not enough money. A few hundred million from NASA can fix that. This is honestly getting interesting more so than it was. What I am not understanding here though is this; the CEV, formerly called OSP, what is to be NASA's new space ship, are they trying to get Kistler to make it? Are they throwing funds out to see who takes the ball and runs with it? Boeing and Lockheed are getting over a BILLION dollars for their heavy lift vehicle programs. Now, if I could just get NASA to trust ME with a few hundred million..... -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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