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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/23/04 2:07pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I always thought it odd that there really is no clear definition of a planet. If the Moon were sitting in Pluto's orbit, it too would be called a planet and not simply a moon. One astronomer gave a good definition of a planet as any world with enough mass to become a sphere. Sounds good to me! TY for your contribution Everton. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/24/04 3:15pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Fisrt off read through Small Rockets Hold Big Potential Snippets: CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- Hopes are growing for smaller rockets, which could lift satellites or bombs with a few minutes' notice, instead of in days or weeks. The Air Force is studying how it might use such rockets, which could be ready and, on demand, deliver bombs halfway around the world or put small satellites into orbit to monitor "hot spots." The small rockets the Air Force is considering in its Operationally Responsive Spacelift initiative would lift cargo of about a thousand pounds. A large rocket costs significantly more -- and makes a lot more money. A Delta 4 could amount to 20 or 30 times the revenue and employment of something like the Falcon, McAlister said. So the big rocket makers might not be itching to get into the small-rocket market, even if it starts booming. The last part is important, it is the very reason space flight is not cheap; the rocket gods want profit. That is why you and me sit here and only dream of space flight rather than being out there right now. There is also of course major viewpoint about warfare in this article which is expanded upon in another. U.S. Air Force Plans for Future War in Space A cold war in space, a space war race. There has been a long term agreemant of sorts about not putting weapons in space, but now it seems that since space travel is on the brink of becoming cheaper and easier, that non-weaponry idea is out the window. If it means I can sleep safely in my bed..so be it. Another point to make is that weapon making tends to advance technology. Space travel may become cheaper yet. A few snippets: Air-Launched Anti-Satellite Missile: Small air-launched missile capable of intercepting satellites in low Earth orbit and seen as a past 2015 development. In the Navy I was a crew member of the Ticonderoga class cruiser U.S.S. Lake Champlain CG-57. This class of cruiser is better well known as the Aegis cruiser. Aegis is a combination of weapons and detection. It centers around the SPY radar. It dawned on me one night that the range of this radar was just a touch under 300 miles. I asked about this and was told that the SPY had to have an altitude limit placed on it because in testing it was tracking satellites. It occured to me that all our anti-air missles needed was a bosster of some sort and it could knock satellites and other targets out of low orbit. Ground-Based Laser: Propagates laser beams through the atmosphere to Low-Earth Orbit satellites to provide robust, post-2015 defensive and offensive space control capability. Ground based lasers should be appearing soon on a battlefield near you. A company called TRW is developing this, and in 2000 showed that they could aquire and knock out two rockets with it. Lasers can be hard to power, but as tech gets smaller so shall lasers and particle beams. A battlefield use is to keep the enemy from having any kind of air power. We do this now with fighter craft. Lasers will make this easier and safer for troops, not to mention the possibility of anti-orbit capabilities. Hypervelocity Rod Bundles: Provides the capability to strike ground targets anywhere in the world from space. I believe this has been called THOR or THOR'S HAMMER. It is basically a set up rods that get shot from orbit to ground targets within minutes and hits the target area at thousands of feet per second resulting in a very big explosion from kinetic energy. Looks like one way or another, we are getting more space flights. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/25/04 3:20pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Universetoday.com: Getting a Greenhouse to Work on Mars Summary - (Feb 25, 2004) One key to the long-term exploration of Mars will be figuring out how to get plants to grow there in greenhouses - they're natural factories for air and food. Since they evolved on Earth, they have no mechanism for surviving in low pressures, which would be a requirement for off-planet greenhouses; they think they're drying out even when there's plenty of water. One solution might be to biochemically adjust levels of hormones that initiate the drought instinct. Confused? Then you're just like plants in a greenhouse on Mars. Full story Down the road? Ecospheres. An ecosphere can be made in this in one of two ways; the "glass" you see is either an aerogel permiated with hydrogen, or two layers of an inflatable with a layer of water sandwhiched in between. You get radiation protection as well as a view without using a spacesuit. There is another pastime sure to catch on when living inside one of these in a low gravity environment, you as you are, with just the strength you have will be able to put on a set of wings connected by a body harness, and fly under your own power. At first, there will simply be a base. Partially underground and made from "mooncrete". later this base may enlarge as the population grows and may retain the underground look for some time. But eventually a large park like setting and then city-sized ecospheres become a reality. Here is a quick diagram on an individual home that one could have on the Moon: And here we have a diagram of Moon Manor You are looking at it from above. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/2/04 1:42am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Article: Black Holes: Fuzzy Tnagles Of Strings? Snippets: According to a new study, information may continue to exist long after entering a black hole, preserved in a giant tangle of strings that stretch from the hole's core to its surface, giving it more of a "fuzzball" appearance than that of a smooth gravitational beast. In the classical model of how black holes form, a supermassive object, such as a giant star, collapses to form a very small point of infinite gravity, called a singularity. A special region in space surrounds the singularity, and any object that crosses the region’s border, known as the event horizon, is pulled into the black hole, never to return. In theory, not even light can escape from a black hole. According to string theory, all the fundamental particles of the universe -- protons, neutrons, and electrons -- are made of different combinations of strings. But as tiny as strings are, Mathur believes they can form large black holes through a phenomenon called fractional tension. The strings from any subsequent material that enters the black hole would remain traceable as well. That means a black hole can be traced back to its original conditions, and information survives. ---------------------------------------------------- It was my understanding that information survives across the event horizon until it hits the singularity. The article does not state what happens at the singularity, or if there even is a singularity in this new model. I have to make an assumption that an infinite supply of mass(information) cannot make an infinite sized black hole due to Hawking radiation. Is there HR in this model? Could HR be used to recover information 'stored' in a black hole? If there is a singularity in this model and information can survive, could information be sent across the Universe and recovered if it encounters the severe warpage of space-time at the singularity? -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/2/04 3:17pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	A couple of posts up you will find ecospheres, HERE you will find Biospheres Specifically it's called Biosphere 2, Biosphere 1 is the Earth-----science joke and such. As I recall, one of the two Biosphere projects failed not only because of a system failure, but from a person failure. Ego got in the way when problems with the workings of the project came up, and there were too many chiefs and not enough indians. ---------------------------------------------------- Take a look HERE and we see another cutback to pay for the Moon/Mars endevour proposed by Bush. The Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project(BPP) has been cancelled. If you look at the head post there is a link called "Warp Drive When?" which discusses the various ideas in BPP. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/2/04 3:36pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Never Mind NASA I had heard of balloon launching, but never knew much about it. In this article we see a starfish shaped ballon that would lift a rocket to high altitude, then a rocket would fire off from the middle without destroying the balloon. I assume afterwards the balloon is brought back down to Earth for the next rocket. It will not win the X-Prize, the company does not plan on manned flights for about 8 years, but the idea is sound and in the meantime intend to make money in a micro-satellite launch industry. It does not state what the lift capacity is, I'll try to find out more later. The largest capacity to date for a balloon lift is by CargoLifter which is to be an airship delivery company which can put 100 tons in the air and make continental transport. If JP Aerospace can get even a couple of tons into orbit they will be off and running on what seems to me to be a very cheap way into space. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/3/04 5:53am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	That certainly looks like a good idea with many advantages. If you can get to a higher launching altitude with less work all the better. Space.com has an interesting story up today with several good concepts. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/3/04 12:00pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	^^From that article Setting up a home-away-from-home on the Moon is under active study at NASA. From inflatable bases, "wagon train" concepts to underground bunkers -- they are among an array of proposals evaluated over the years. Personally I'd go with inflatables with the wagon train idea as well, lighter weight and less digging as well as having a view while still having radiaton protection via water or hydrogen aerogels. See a few posts above. Habot is a radical departure from lunar base studies, Cohen noted. Habot modules would land on six movable legs, making use of those legs to strut their stuff robotically away from a lunar landing zone. I don't see a need for a walking system, a bit too complex I think. Wheels are fine. Moon-landing astronauts would find a ready-and-waiting base. Once the lunar explorers depart the scene, the Habots separate from each other to being their trek to a new address elsewhere on the Moon. It is also possible for crew members to go along for the ride in their mobile Habot. Again I don't see why a walking thing-a-ma-gig is needed. The "base in waiting" looks like it comes right form the Mars Direct plan, a good idea. SpaceDev of Poway, California has completed the first phase of a privately funded study to design a low cost robotic return to the Moon. The study was performed for Lunar Enterprise of California (LEC, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Space Age Publishing Company). Note to self: remember to buy SpaceDev stock. These are the same guys who have built/are building SpaceShipOne's propulsion system. They also want to land a probe on the asteroid Eros and claim it as property to mine in the future. "Of course lunar tourism cannot start until the necessary facilities are constructed on the Moon. However, there appears to be a largely commercial route toward this," Collins predicts. It also has to become cheap. Domes will be able to be even larger due to the support from the internal air pressure. This will enable the realization of humans’ eons-long dream of flying like birds. Flying and flying sports will be a truly unique new attraction of life on the lunar surface," Collins suggested during an international lunar conference late last year. I mentioned this in a post above, a dream popularized a bit by Marshall Savage and his rather Utopian view/design for colonizing the galaxy. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/3/04 12:08pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I agree, what is the need for walkers. Someone saw ESB too many times. I agree on the SpaceDev comments. ::Runs to get money:: -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/3/04 12:21pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	If I hear Bush wants an All Terrain Articulated Transport on the Moon, I won't be fooled. Here is a CEV timeline as provided by Hobbyspace.com: 2008: Initial flight test of CEV 2008: Launch first lunar robotic orbiter 2011: First Unmanned CEV flight 2014: First crewed CEV flight 2015: Jupiter Icy Moon Orbiter (JIMO)/Prometheus 2015-2020: First human mission to the Moon Centennial Challenge prize program: The program grew out of the 2003 NASA Space Architect study. Using input from the X PRIZE Foundation, they gathered 129 potential challenges and then winnowed them down to 15. From these they estimated the purse sizes and time scale needed. For the Centennial program they will begin with: Spring workshop to solicit external challenge ideas and refine best candidates A website will be provided for submitting challenge ideas Press announcement on workshop and website expected shortly The challenges will be initiated annually: FY 2004 cycle limited to existing authority ($250K or less purses) FY 2005 and later cycles to include larger purses (2005 NASA authorization bill) Repeat workshops annually and solicit external idea. In other words no details on prizes but it looks like NASA is giving a boost to private companies this way. I wish this had all started 30 years ago. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/3/04 12:28pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 3/3/04 12:28pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MasterAero
	I'm anxious to see a more in-depth timeline. WHy is there a flight test in 2008 (that's only 4 years away [face_shocked] ) and then an unmanned flight test in 2011 and manned flight in 2015. Three years between flight tests? Yikes! We're all ears on the details of that. The new code T presentation that was given yesterday is on the main Nasa site. Cool I already own part of SpaceDev in my mutual funds. [burns] Excellent [/burns] -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/4/04 12:27pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	^^If it is going to take that long to get to the Moon, it sounds like NASA is trying to do it the right way, and make it permanent which has been the point all along. Of course, it's all tentative right now and if Bush does not get into office again I think this whole thing is in trouble. Kerry is more concerned with health care and education and has said the budget must be balanced to afford space travel. In other words, he is prepared to cut the NASA budget if needed for his own agenda. The problem is that if NASA had even just a tiny bit of the the health care and education budget we could have been a true spacefaring society by now, but if health care and education had NASA's budget it would not make a dent. I do not like Bush's extreme conservative veiws, he is brining religion into his admin. But I do support this new space endevour, it must be allowed to go on. Now for a happy topic: Asteroid Bill Passes Summary - (Mar 4, 2004) The US House of Representatives approved bill H.R. 912, which awards amateur astronomers who discover potential Earth-crossing asteroids up to $3,000. One award will be given to the astronomer who discovers the brightest object, and another to the astronomer who makes the biggest scientific contribution to Minor Planet Center's mission of cataloguing near-Earth asteroids. It's estimated that there are between 900 and 1,100 objects larger than 1 km - of which, 700 have already been tracked. Full Story - H.R. 912, the Charles "Pete" Conrad Astronomy Awards Act, named for the third man to walk on the moon, establishes awards to encourage amateur astronomers to discover and track near-earth asteroids. The bill directs the NASA Administrator to make awards, of $3,000 each, based on the recommendations of the Smithsonian Minor Planet Center. Earth has experienced several near misses with asteroids that would have proven catastrophic, and the scientific community relies heavily on amateur astronomers to discover and track these objects. "Given the vast number of asteroids and comets that inhabit Earth's neighborhood, greater efforts for tracking and monitoring these objects are critical. That is why I introduced H.R. 912, the Charles 'Pete' Conrad Astronomy Awards Act, which is a tribute to Pete Conrad for his tremendous contributions to the aerospace community over the last four decades," said bill sponsor, Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee Chairman Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA). "Asteroids deserve a lot more attention from the scientific community. The first step is a thorough tracking of all sizeable Near Earth Objects, and H.R. 912 is a modest step towards this goal." This is cool. Already there is a comet hunter's award. Every year $20,000 is split between amateurs who find comets, not 20 grand each, but they share the pot. With some money in the bank to cover a couple of years worth of bills and amateur could work as a full time astronomer and possibly make a living at it....if successfull. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/5/04 5:41am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	With this news below, looks like Kerry will now be totally against Bush's space plan. From Nasawatch: "We have projects that are planned or in the queue now, projects that people -- academics and laboratories and companies -- have spent millions of dollars to get ready," Glenn said. "That pulls the rug out from under our scientists who placed their faith in NASA, and our scientists within NASA who devoted years and years to their work."-John Glenn Editor's note: You know folks, I find it so self-serving that Senator Glenn has suddenly gotten concerned about the "science" NASA does given how he shamelessly used that very same "science" as a thin veil to justify his pressuring of NASA to fly him for a joy ride on STS-95. Very sad. CNN Story -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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Darth_Sprocket Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 3/5/04 5:49am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	The only reason Glenn is opposed to Bush's space exploration plan is because it's Bush's plan. Nothing more. If Gore had been President and had proposed a similar plan to Bush's, then Glenn would all for it. It's just politics in an election year. -----signature----- "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." ~ Ronald Reagan
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/5/04 6:07am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD - Date Edited: 3/5/04 6:08am (1 edits total) Edited By: MasterAero
	Sprocket. Your insight serves you well. Interesting Glenn gave that speech at a Kerry event. Glenn is a democrat. He must disagree with Bush to help Kerry. Maybe if Kerry wins, Glenn will get to go on another flight. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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