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Author	Topic: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
Darth_Sprocket Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 3/5/04 6:35am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	MASTERAERO....I'm an aerospace engineer, too. -----signature----- "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." ~ Ronald Reagan
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/5/04 1:31pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Am I the only one here who is not an aerospace engineer? A great step forward: House Passes Legislation Setting Space Tourism Guidelines By Associated Press posted: 09:00 am ET 05 March 2004 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Out-of-this-world vacations moved a step closer to reality Thursday with House passage of legislation setting guidelines for the future space tourism industry. Rep. Sherwood Boehlert, R-N.Y., chairman of the House Science Committee, said that while he first thought the legislation was "a little flighty," he came to realize that "this is about a lot more than joy rides in space. This is about the future of the U.S. aerospace industry." Laws already exist to regulate private sector space endeavors such as satellite launches, but there is no legal jurisdiction for regulating commercial human spaceflight. American businessman Dennis Tito in 2001 became the world's first space tourist when he rode a Russian rocket to the international space station. He was followed last year by South African Internet magnate Mark Shuttleworth, who -- like Tito -- paid the Russians $20 million for the ride. The House bill, which passed 402-1, gives regulatory authority over human flight to the Federal Aviation Administration's Office of Commercial Space Transportation. To make it easier for companies to test new types of reusable suborbital rockets, the bill gives the office the authority to issue experimental permits that can be obtained more quickly and with less bureaucracy than licenses. It also requires the Office of Commercial Space Transportation to come up with regulations for crew pertaining to training and medical conditions. Space tourists would have to be informed of the risks involved in their travel. The bill also extends for three years an existing law under which commercial space launch companies are required to carry liability insurance, capped at $500 million, with assurances that the government will compensate for losses above that. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., chairman of the Science Committee's space panel and sponsor of the bill, said encouraging private entrepreneurs to develop new space travel technology would have spinoffs for the Pentagon. "Our great space entrepreneurs," he said, "are going to be developing aerospace technologies that can be put into our national security." The bill now goes to the Senate for consideration. The one dissenting vote was Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas. So, wether or not NASA is allowed to continue its current Moon/Mars program this is a clear indication that private industry is set to engage in a space race. It has already started with space tourism. I predict that when the X-Prize is won most of the current 27 contestants will drop out, but some will remain because there is alot more money to be made aside from the $10,000,000 X-Prize purse. A billion dollar industry is waiting to go. Of course, the first tourists to sub-orbit will pay tens of thousands. As launches become frequent the cost goes down. Maybe within 15 years the price could drop to a few thousand, enough that a person could take out a small loan or charge their credit card for a trip to space. When it becomes that affordable the space tourim industry will skyrocket...so to speak. I've said it before, NASA isn't going to get me to space. NASA has created and tested the technology whil private companies seek to exploit that tech. It's going to be a small crew of perhaps a dozen engineers and a pilot who take me to orbit. I was surprised by Glenn's words. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 3/5/04 8:14pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Has Kerry himself said anything about Bush's space plan? If Kerry's for it, I'll vote for him in an instant, but if he's against it, I'm not sure what I'll do. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/5/04 11:41pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Kerry quote: "Our civilian space program represents a great opportunity for scientific research. Sending a person to Mars is a great mission worthy of a great nation like America. Given the Bush budget deficit, it is imperative that we balance funding for a manned mission to Mars against critical domestic needs as well, such as education and health care." It's the last part that bothers me. As I said above, if education and health care got all of NASA's budget added to it, not a dent would be made in those areas. Two thoughts: 1. This is a misunderstanding on his part, the NASA budget has barely gone up at all and the money to pay for Moon/Mars missions is already there, it has just been moved around from differant areas of the NASA budget that already exists. 2. He is just using it as a way to say he will sacrifice anything for education and health care to get votes and could care less about a space program. On a weblog called Transterrestrial musings the author makes a point that a months worth of education or health care budget given to NASA would pay for the entire Moon/Mars program. The scales are not even close. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/6/04 4:43pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I found a "little" something today in my wandering around the WWW: A really big booster that would be cheaper than anything that is launched today: Sea Dragon was a two-stage design of 1962 capable of putting 1.2 million pounds (550 tonnes) into low Earth orbit. The concept was to achieve minimum launch costs through lower development and production costs. This meant accepting a larger booster with a lower performance propulsion system and higher stage dead weight then traditional NASA and USAF designs. The first stage had a single pressure fed, thrust chamber of 36 million kgf thrust, burning LOX/Kerosene. The second stage was ‘considerably smaller’ (thrust only 6.35 million kgf!) and burned LOX/LH2. The complete vehicle was 23 m in diameter and 150 m long. The all-up weight was 18,000 tonnes. The launch vehicle would be fuelled with RP-1 kerosene in port, then towed horizontally to a launch point in the open ocean. It would then be filled with cryogenic liquid oxygen and hydrogen from tankers or produced by electrolysis of sea water by a nuclear aircraft carrier (such as the CVN Enterprise in the painting). After fuelling, the tanks at the launcher base would be flooded, and the vehicle would reach a vertical position in the open ocean. Launch would follow. The concept was proven with tests of the earlier Sea Bee and Sea Horse vehicles. Aside from the baseline two stage expendable version, a single-stage-to-orbit reusable vehicle with a plug nozzle was designed. Costs to low earth orbit were estimated to be between $60/kg and $600/kg - eg one fourth that of the Saturn V or less. Most SSTO designs of the last few years would have been in the $1000/pound range which is only slightly less than the upper estimate of $600/kg. The same SSTOs were also only looking at half a dozen tons or less to LEO This came just as Apollo was being cut back and the Viet Nam war was eating an ever greater amount of the US budget. NASA dissolved their Future Projects Branch (dropping almost all the manned Mars landing work). Prospects for Sea Dragon essentially disappeared, and Aerojet could no longer fund it on IR&D. Some of the older designs were simply not workable, but this did not fall into that category. Nixon, the Vietnam War, and folks who had an interest in the Space Shuttle design got their way instead. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/7/04 7:12am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Astronomy picture of the Day..uh, well, from two days ago. Variable star V838 Monocerotis lies near the edge of our Milky Way Galaxy, about 20,000 light-years from the Sun. Still, ever since a sudden outburst was detected in January 2002, this enigmatic star has taken the center of an astronomical stage while researchers try to understand where it fits into the picture of stellar evolution. As light from the stellar flash echoes across pre-existing dust shells around V838 Mon, its appearance changes dramatically. Revealed in a sharp snapshot recorded in February by the Hubble's Advanced Camera for Surveys, this portion of the dust shell is about six light-years in diameter. But because light reflected from the dust follows only a slightly indirect path compared to the direct line-of-sight to the star, the light echoes visible now are only lagging about two years behind the outburst itself. Astronomers expect the expanding echoes to continue to light up the dusty environs of V838 Mon for at least the rest of the current decade. ------------- For some scale, the distance to the nearest star system, Alpha/Proxima Centauri, is 4.3 light years which would fit easily into the 6 LY diameter dust shell. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/7/04 11:13am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Nasawatch.com: House and Senate democrats are talking of putting the President's space Initiative on hold for at least a year. Some would like to wait for the election to be over. Other Democrats (and many Republicans) have problems with the lack of detail in the budget numbers and overall schedule milestones NASA has been presenting. Talk of holding NASA's budget in FY 2005 to FY 2004 levels with some $60-80 million in additional study money is being discussed among Democrats. Overall, Republicans are a bit more enthusiastic, but there are some deficit hawks who would like to pay off the deficit sooner than the President has suggested and proposed budget increases such as those sought for NASA are a tempting target. Again and again; the NASA increase is meager, trivial really compared to the budgets of other programs. NASA's budget will not help solve other issues. Let the budget stand. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/8/04 2:48pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	ARRRRRRRRGH! Bush Space Vision Dealt Setback by Senate Budget Committee By Brian Berger Space News Staff Writer posted: 09:10 am ET 08 March 2004 WASHINGTON -- With the United States experiencing record budget defecits, the Senate Budget Committee is reining in many White House spending priorities, including the proposed 5.6 percent budget hike for NASA for 2005. The Senate Budget Committee voted March 4 to trim about $600 million from President George W. Bush's $16.2 billion request for NASA. The Budget Committee's budget resolution sets the guidelines for Senate appropriators responsible for crafting the 13 annual spending bills that fund the federal government. Bush wants to increase NASA's 2004 budget of $15.4 billion by $800 million next year to serve as a downpayment on a new exploration agenda that aims to send humans back to the moon as early as 2015 in preparation for more ambitious missions to Mars and beyond. Senate Budget Committee Chairman Don Nickles (Okla.), in a paper released Monday detailing the committee's 2005 budget resolution, said the committee "supports the president's vision for exploration and discovery [but] the current budget situation necessitates slower implementation." The 1.4 percent increase recommended by the committee would give NASA $15.6 billion for 2005, about $200 million more than this year. The Senate Appropriations VA-HUD and Independent Agencies subcommittee is holding a hearing Thursday on the space agency's budget. NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe is scheduled to testify. ---------- Dear Burt Rutan and to any other X-Prize contestants as well as other space advocacy groups and pioneers, Congress won't let NASA get me to space. Please help. Yours truly, VLM. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/8/04 7:56pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	This news and NASA budget denials make MasterAero cry! I beginning to succumb to the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression.... -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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obi_wan_kanathan Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 3/8/04 9:52pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Sigh Well, I guess I'm not surprised. It sounds like something the politicians would do. -----signature----- Dark Lord of the JC \|\| JC/DLC Ambassador ~~The NEW Dark Lords' Council~~ http://www.thedarklordscouncil.com/
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/9/04 2:44am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	A Presidential competitor I have never heard of: Dennis Kucinich His words: As a member of the generation that came of age watching the first humans soar into the outer reaches of our atmosphere, then to Earth orbit, and then to the moon, I am keenly interested in continuing the peaceful exploration of space. The Space Exploration Act of 2003, which I cosponsored, restores a vision for the United States human space flight program. It outlines a series of incremental goals over the next 20 years that will facilitate the scientific exploration of the solar system, aid in the search for life elsewhere in the universe, and rekindle the spirit of discovery that created this nation. These goals include the development of reusable space craft that will be able to rendezvous with near-Earth orbit asteroids, carry humans from lunar orbit to the surface of the Moon and back, and carry humans from low Earth orbit to and from Martian orbit. A human-tended habitation and research facility on the surface of one of the moons of Mars is also among its goals. The exploration of space is in our national interest for a number of reasons. - A bold and sustained human space exploration initiative has the potential to inspire a new generation of young people in the same way as the Apollo program did. - Completion of the International Space Station has the potential to engage the international community in peaceful cooperation in space. - By working in partnership with the private sector, NASA will lead the way in developing new technologies in energy, materials, communication, medicine, and propulsion. It will create the industries of the future and new high-tech jobs. - The jobs created by a space program are located in cities and towns throughout the United States. By increasing the budget for space exploration, we are putting Americans back to work in a visionary industry that has no limits to creativity or imagination. I believe that one of the best investments we could make for the future of America would be to triple the budget for NASA. The current budget for NASA is far from adequate. Our shuttle fleet is based on 30-year old technology only because of a lack of funding. Although the shuttle program requires $4 billion a year to operate, NASA has been forced to operate the shuttle with a budget of only $3 billion a year. Increasing the funding to NASA would be an empty gesture if we failed to invest in the human capital of the aerospace industry. Only six of every 100 American engineering students are training to pursue careers in aerospace. This must change if we hope to restore our prominence in space technology. Initiatives such as designing new spacecraft, new propulsion systems, and planning international missions into space will help to renew national interest in NASA and its programs. Like hundreds of millions people worldwide, I stood in awe of the remarkable pictures beaming back to earth from NASA's Mars Rover, 'Spirit.' A Kucinich administration will promote a bold and sustained human space flight initiative of scientific exploration that will build on the amazing accomplishments we have already seen. Source: Kucinich Press Office Full Spacedaily.com article -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/9/04 4:58am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	I read another interesting and funny story about Kucinich. Orginally posted on here by the great Darth_AYBABTU. Original thread He actually sounds serious in that letter. Scary. Although the above proposal sounds good to me. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/9/04 11:52am Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	Wow. I had honestly not heard of this guy before, silly me. I think the letter is not serious, but I thought his "clubs in space" remark was odd(but funny). Go here and see Phil Platt the BadAstronomer tear apart Hoagland This is awsome. I could only skim over it for now but I love seeing folks like Hoagland taken apart like this. I sometimes listen to Coast To Coast AM, and recently Hoagland has been on quite a bit. It is honestly hilarious to me to hear him speak about NASA covering up the "real" information. Enjoy. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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MasterAero Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/9/04 12:06pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	That's great...Its interesting to see how some people can argue about that face and not landing on the moon. They did a whole movie based on that face didn't they. Wasn't it Mission to Mars. That bad astronomy site is great. -----signature----- My whole life all I've wanted to do is fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down.
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VadersLaMent Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 3/9/04 1:43pm Subject: RE: SPACE SCIENCE THREAD
	^^600 posts for SST. Yep, Mission to Mars They ran into trouble and it turned out the FACE was real. It was basically a 2001 A Space Odyssey on Mars. They did ok with the the science, which was a short lived trend in late 90's sci fi flicks. ------------------------------------------------- Meanwhile, Hubble is still alive and kicking There are no plans for a replacement optical telescope, either save Hubble or make another one to replace it. This article remonded me of the possibility that the WMAP telescope might be able to have a look at the beginnings of the Universe and store the information of it on a 1 gigabyte hard drive. I'll have to hunt up my Astronomy Cafe book for that info. -----signature----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic-Arthur C. Clarke Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God-Michael Shermer I'm a sexy shoeless GOD OF WAR! #347 on SLG's List Of Sexy Men
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