Are the Jedi Council Forums a place for fans and praise only?

Have I ever denied this, Rob? No. I've learned to cope with it after many years of dealing with it. And as for Alexrd, he never told me to leave and we argued so many times a few summers ago regarding 'what is an opinion.'

 

That's exactly how I feel.
You should think Episode VII leads people to a new direction, but no, they keep looking back. It feels like meaningful discussion have been replaced by these endless debates you described since then.
I'm on some fan boards but this is the only one that makes you feel lile a stranger for being an actual fan of the subject. Is that right?
Additionally, I thought there was a reason for sepate boards (OT, PT, Saga etc.) which allow everyone to choose "their" Star Wars and keep discussion civilized.
Remember one or two post when a poster politely expressed an opinion of TESB as the worst SW film? There were immediately one or two posters telling him how "wrong" or "crazy" he is.
Now mulitplay that and imagine how the forums would look like.

I also don't understand why my simple question (Why are you here?) was so bad. I'm just curious and I want to understand human's motivations. There are people who hate other peope just because they are different. There are people who hate things just because they are different than they imagined them to be. I don't understand them but maybe...MAYBE they could make me understand it. But probably we're just different.
However, I think that's just the reason why humans keep killing each other.
Hate is fun.

Not for me, sorry.

 

A disagreement among users is fine IF the conversation is civilized. A little bit of playful snark is always welcome too. The problem that I see, and keep in my mind I'm still a noob, is that there are some users that are so passionate that they believe that it's their way or the highway. There needs to be some type of middle ground.

 

9 pages already.

 

Might as well repost them.

 

I feel there is an implication, esspecially in how you use the question. And I'm not the only one.

If you asked it once, read the answer and moved along that would not be an issue really.

You ask it. People answer you. Then you don't like the answer so you ask it again, and again, and again, and again. Your still asking it now even though you have answers from people. So then you retreat to this whole "its not on me" angle. When you follow around certain users and everytime they post something negative you hit them with the "why are you even here?" question that has already been answered dozens of times there is nothing genuine about it.

 

Remember one or two post when a poster politely expressed an opinion of TESB as the worst SW film? There were immediately one or two posters telling him how "wrong" or "crazy" he is.

---

was this person me? : I know I've said that ESB is the most over-rated of the OT but can't remember if anyone called me crazy over it if it wasn't i'm glad i'm not alone in this unpopular opinion

and Anakinfan is going to think I have some sort of crush on her but she is right again, theres a difference here:

"I don't like Jar Jar binks, he sucks and isn't funny I don't think 3po is funny either in AOTC, in fact the whole PT blows" might require ignore if all you want is a positive atmosphere

"why don't you just leave?, you must have a very sad existence hating on these films" requires an edit, and if repeated after being told to stop, a spank.

This really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp or to moderate.

 

Alrighty, here we go. I would say that negativity is allowed on the forum - as several people have mentioned, saying "I think the PT is an example of bad filmmaking" is negative but it certainly doesn't warrant a reactionary flame. Saying 'Why do you post here?" is rude, but it's not a ban worthy comment, really, unless that's all a person has to contribute to a thread. The 'why do you post here' comment is lame. They post here because they want to. Maybe they want to contribute something other than a glowing review of the film/show/book/etc. That's fine with me. That said, if all someone has to contribute to a thread is negativity, then they really should find something else to occupy their time. At least as far as I'm concerned, if I don't like a thread, I don't post in it.

Now, as I see it, an overreaching issue is that there really can't be a black and white rule. One person's flame is another person's rude comment. Over the last two weeks I've rejected several reports regarding comments made that were nothing more than someone being rude. We don't moderate 'rude' - we can moderate personal attacks. Negativity can be very subjective and for us to lay down some kind of edict would simply be unwieldy. Please keep in mind that I've been a mod in the JCC for years. In the JCC, we expect that people can handle (and give out) comments that are rude or 'on the line'.

As a moderator, it's my job to help curb flaming, trolling, baiting and spamming and endeavor to keep a discussion on track when it devolves into sniping and personal attacks. However, each forum has its own unique culture and that is cultivated by the moderators there. Ultimately, it's that mod team that is responsible for ensuring that discussion can happen and that users feel that they are participating effectively in the forum. Each mod team tends to handle that differently. Now, would I have locked the thread in question? Not necessarily. I believe in managing the thread and dealing with the users who are causing problems on an individual case-by-case basis unless it just gets completely out of control or the intent of the thread doesn't contribute to the forum. However, I can see why the lock was made based on the history in that forum. Differing moderator styles right there.

It's not just the mod team that needs to take responsibility - it's the userbase. Granted the mod team sets the tone and that's important, but the users also need to step back and make sure that their participation isn't contributing to the negativity. There are a lot of people who just want to be right all the time and don't want to see someone else's point of view. That's sad. If you want a positive forum - then be positive. Don't just put it all on the moderators to babysit and fix the problem when the users - including ones that are here consistently - think that behaving negatively should be the norm.

 

that's a bit confusing if I say so myself,

so a few questions that you may want (or not, your choice obviously ) to answer

1. can you give me an example of a comment that is rude vs a mild flame?

2. while I agree a mild flame isn't ban worthy, does it get an edit?
.
3. so the comment of "This board is for fan's of the PT to discuss the prequels until our hearts melt, or for those of us who don't get it, until they get banned." Isn't TOS enforced so therefoe dismissed as bad wording on a moderators part?

4. "I would say" suggests this your opinion on the whole thing, do administration agree with you?

 

I usually do the opposite.

Although I do avoid things that I don't like, such as Ahsoka-related threads in LACWAC. I don't fit in there.

Definitely and, of course, there were noticeable changes in LACWAC following the mod change imo.

 

"GGrievous seems to be suggesting--chalk it up to a "moderator problem" and not post on that particular forum?"
I don't recall saying you should stop posting there. All I said was "it could be a moderator issue." I do understand the 'double standard issue' since I'm aware of how you guys feel. CT, you, and Zandalore.

 

that's all very well and good Myke

but that doesn't answer the three or four basic questions above

one can't be worried treading on eggshells just in case you might say something negative about a movie or character a mod doesn't like,

 

That's funny. That thread in the PT? Two users, all they had to contribute to that thread was "why are you doing here", "I pity you" and "hypocrisy".

No edits. No warnings. No bans.

Once again, two users in that PT thread, and all they had to contribute to a thread focused on unintentional comedy was their own negativity toward it. They didn't like the thread, so they decided to come in and derail it. Are their comments not negative? Not only was it negativity, it was negativity directed at other users, not Star Wars. Amazing.

No edits. No warnings. No bans.

You have supported their comments with your inaction.

You've already said "why are you here" is rude. "Why are you here" is directed at people, not Star Wars. How is it not a personal attack?

Btw, as I've said, it's not always as "polite" as "why are you here", it's often "why don't you just leave", "if you don't like it then get out of here", supported by a rant directed at the person with apparently acceptable insults like "hater", "whiner", "basher", etc. How is this not personal?

Well, I've gotten my answer, you can lock the thread now if you want.

This would have been a lot faster and more satisfying if you just told me to **** off.

 

I honestly don't understand why (some) who apparently detest the subject of the thread spend time watching/reading the subject then spend additional time on the boards that are supposedly discussing (pros AND cons) of said thread subject ONLY to point out the subject, so to speaks, "sucks." If I detest something, I would consider it rude of me to go to a board of its fans only to post, "X is horrible, no one in their right mind likes it."

So I am not very happy when discussing something to have others come in merely to spout, "XXX is absolutely horrible." That contributes nothing to any discussion.

Because I'm aware it's considered negative I don't ask, but am very tempted to ask, "Why DO you come here {to post that what I like to discuss is only garbage and not worth watching}?"

And I have to admit that I am beginning to feel not very welcome in some of my very favorite haunts because of the sheer numbers of those who come in merely to proclaim how horrible something I enjoy is. I come here to enjoy the discussions, not to be told ad infinitum how I enjoy something only someone with no taste enjoys, and if I "were honest" I would embrace the negativity and "spread the gospel" as well.

 

Valairy a quick question if I may,

while I agree that saying "XXX is horrible" can be trolling (depends on context etc) would it be better for you if the person then explains why XXX is horrible? or would you rather not hear it at all?

 

I've got to be honest here I never actually see posts that contain "you have no taste in movies, you suck they suck" etc, which is a good thing it means mods are on it and rightly editing it out,

but many of us do see the "you're not a true fan, so go away" comments that are not edited,

but anyway i'm just sounded like an old stuck vinyl record so I'll just stop posting until something new transpires. Hopefully something good that suits both sides

I would like to hear from other mods though, come on guys share your imput

 

JCF is a place of discussion; discussion can’t occur beneath an air of [enforced] total consensus. PiettsHat exhaustively explained the difference between constructive criticism (which is/should be welcome) and incessant whining (which is annoying as hell, but should be mostly discouraged rather than punished). I spend a lot of time in the LACWAC and Literature sections and consider myself very critical—the highest score a TCW episode has ever gotten from me has been an 8.5 or a 9, CT-867-5309 has given higher. But I’m also quick to defend the show on its merits, however dubious, and have supported the reviled Dave Filoni as a director. But I always make sure to adequately or thoroughly explain my perspective.

In conclusion, trolls are pathetic; dissidents are heroic. Crush the former, cultivate the latter.

 

Right. I already said, rude, but not something I would edit or ban for. Warning possibly depending on the user's history. A drive by rude or negative comment does not necessarily warrant a ban or edit.

Correct again. Negativity directed at other users does not equal a personal attack. Nor is it necessarily ban or edit worthy.

Just because a comment is directed at someone doesn't mean it's a personal attack. If a user posted "Why are you here, PT loving moron?", that would be a personal attack. Just because someone is rude and throws out the 'why are you here' or 'you should leave the thread' doesn't equal a personal attack. anakinfan mentioned the "GTFO" comment - that's a personal attack.

Right. So when I told you to *** off you could go back and complain that I did that. No, I don't play that game. You wanted to discuss this, that's what's happening. I don't agree with some of your assertions but that doesn't mean that I'm someone who is just going to shut down the thread and tell everyone to go away.

Now as for SithStarSlayer 's comment "Yeah, terms of service... and we are a fan site. This board is for fan's of the PT to discuss the prequels until our hearts melt, or for those of us who don't get it, until they get banned.", he's going to have to address that himself as I can't interpret if that was being sarcastic or not.