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Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

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  1. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    TaradosGon implied that in Star Wars war doesn't change people, I didn't just make that up as a false representation of what the people who disagree with me think, though this debate unfortunately hasn't been lacking that sort of thing.

    This whole notion that Ahsoka can't have matured the way she did because not everyone else who went through the war changed that way is another very, very low quality point. Not everyone who had the experiences Tim McVeigh had went on to do what he did, the same with Barriss, and the same with Ahsoka. This is basic human nature...we're not all the same. In addition, Ahsoka was 14 - 16 during the show. People who are already adults (even including Anakin) don't change as much in two years (of WAR) as a fourteen year old. These are all points I'm not even sure why I have to make they are so obvious, and I don't say that to be insulting but it's the truth.
     
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  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    And "people aren't the same" is hardly enough to make the change believable, because really, a writer could write a character however the hell they wanted and if it doesn't make sense to the reader or viewer, the writer can always fall back on the same excuses used in this thread: She isn't you. Just because you wouldn't react that way doesn't mean she wouldn't. People are different, how can you expect them to react the same?

    Those arguments would work if Ahsoka were a real person, but as a fictional character with whom I am supposed to empathize, the writers had better damn well give me a character arc that makes since.

    But the "if you don't understand you must be stupid or childish" (the latter argument being used earlier in this thread) certainly goes a long way to making sense out of Ahsoka's character arc. [face_laugh].

    I guess that fictional characters can react however the hell they want to a war and we're supposed to brush it off with "it makes sense for her whether it does for you or not", but when we are discussing how real people react to the portrayal of a fictional character, there is always one "correct" reaction.
     
  3. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Everyone, please remember to play nice. [face_peace]
     
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    I was talking about how Ahsoka matures compared to the other characters we see go through the war, not how she compares with how any given individual would react. Of course if one thinks a fictional character's reaction to something isn't the same as theirs it makes it more difficult to empathize with the character. I'm not saying whether or not I empathize with her, I'm saying I can see an over-the-top spunky (really disliked her early on, personally) 14-year-old being a good deal more mature by age 16 after two years of war. I know I changed a heck of a lot from 14 to 16 so I really can't even imagine how much someone could change if they spent that time leading troops in war. You don't need to fall back on a generic "people are different" defense in this case, the issue at hand is specifically to what extent constantly leading troops in war for two years can change a young teenager's personality. I think it's a lot.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I loved her in seasons 1 and 2, even with the annoying chatter in a couple of episodes. I thought she was a great match for Anakin.

    I personally didn't change much in high school, I was the same smartass coming out that I was going in, but that's neither here nor there.

    If we're going to look at how war changes people, that's fine, but I think we'd need a realistic comparison there as well. I have never once heard of PTSD turning someone from a feisty smartass into Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz.

    Where was her jaded, cynical side?
     
  6. Mzukiller

    Mzukiller Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Also in the finale they roved that Yoda needs Force Glasses. It's a bit of a hollow victory that Ahsoka was proven to be "not as wise" as someone who can't tell that she's clearly not the bomber. It was just a mess.
    I still think that Ahsoka turning to Dark Side, or maybe defecting would've been a decent way to go. I have this reoccuring dream that she's gonna go to Yavin or Korriban and the Sith will teach her all about their ways. But after Mortis, it's just not an idea that people, myself among them, can take seriously, because unlike Anakin she has no real drive to join the dark side. And I hated Ahsoka for a long time, over it now, so I thought Death was the best way to go. I guess we'll all have to live with just not knowing what happens next, though.
     
  7. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    The more Ahsoka matures in relation to everyone else, the more psychotic Anakin looks. Anakin is going into battle and flat out enjoying himself. There are instances in the real world of this that are frankly disgusting, like I remember a year or two ago there was an instance of an AC-130 taking out suspected militants and the guys operating the guns are just talking like it's a video game, chuckling, and seeming like they're having a good old time.

    There's that fictional barrier though in which it's OK for Anakin to behave this way, but it reads completely differently when you see people really behaving that way. Similarly, I can take the concept of Jedi padawans for granted as fiction. They are essentially child soldiers, and no matter how gifted, it's kind of messed up when you think about it that Ahsoka is a 14 year old soldier, or that the man-clones are really 10 years old. Really kind of bleak, bleak stuff that we can just accept without issue because it's fiction.

    If I wanted to look at Star Wars as real, then the Republic is incredibly bankrupt morally, including the Jedi, the padawans should be seized from the Jedi Order and the Temple should be demolished and the Jedi exiled from Coruscant, as an institution that employs child soldiers has no business having some prestigious temple at the political center of the galaxy. The prequels just introduced some really messed up concepts, if I really want to look at the Republic as a real entity. But it's not, and stuff flies in fiction that does not fly in the real world. And with someone like Ahsoka, it just feels incredibly odd that she would just be the one to grow up fast in a time of war while Anakin by juxtaposition just looks like a psychotic child and if Ahsoka is going through this war and accumulating emotional scars, that just makes the Jedi Order that assigns her missions as the most irresponsible institution ever to force this upon a child/teenager.

    I don't think real world comparisons work here. Especially when these changes in Ahsoka happen gradually. You might have some guy excited to go to war and "kick some ***", but I'm sure he'll get snapped out of that pretty quickly (if he gets snapped out of it). I don't think he'll go through 10 battles thinking it's the best time ever and then the 11th time of getting shot at finally makes him mature a bit. Ahsoka initially was very bold and reckless and was very much like Anakin. Then she just all of a sudden changes because "the war did it." And that feels incredibly out of place. And the more you try to incorporate that kind of real world logic into a universe in which it generally hasn't been shown to exist. The more messed up the Star Wars universe proves to be.
     
  8. Mzukiller

    Mzukiller Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Sep 5, 2012
    Yep. Th-that's pretty much it. Everybody go home, everyone's favorite Superman just figured out how it all goes.
     
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  9. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2011
    I just put on TCW (2008), watching just The New Padawan. Obi-Wan's hair. The upgrade during mid-S3 was great. His old hair...not so much. I kinda wish, for the first 3.5 seasons, that Obi-Wan had that gorgeous mullet.
     
  10. darkmarc

    darkmarc Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2013
    *opens door*

    "Ahsoka's maturation was too fast/too unbelievable/too annoying..."
    "No, Ahsoka's maturation was timely/credible/palatable.."
    "Well, IU..."
    "Well, IRL..."

    really...again...STILL!?! :rolleyes:

    Wake me when we get bonus content (or something worth rehashing)

    *closes door*

    (And mullets don't count!)
     
  11. hlc88

    hlc88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012

    Obi-Wan's character model seemed to change the most in the upgrade mid S3.
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Hey, we've moved onto Obi-Wan's hair! And there's a separate bonus content thread.

    I have the feeling that the Ahsoka argument will rehash itself at some point, although it would certainly be nice if it didn't.

    I liked both Obi-Wan's and Anakin's character model upgrades in season 3. I remember the discussion on the IGN boards that it looked like we were getting closer to ROTS with Anakin's longer hair.
     
  13. hlc88

    hlc88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012

    Though I think there was an arc set for Season 6, where both of the models were completely upgraded to their ROTS looks.
     
  14. Watto

    Watto Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 1998
    I was just thinking that hlc88. That "601" campfire scene had Anakin with even longer hair. But then again the models were in the "Layout" design phase and were so rough and blocky that perhaps that's just what the animatic looked like.
     
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Padme is also wearing her Mustafar maternity jumpsuit in the Clovis arc.
     
  16. hlc88

    hlc88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012

    That's true though I think if the Anakin model did look different in the "Layout" design then it probably would be different in the final animation. I guess we will never know.... unless that arc will be released and there may be a chance it will. The 601 capture would probably make it a scene from the Season 6 finale arc around episode 19. I would like it if it was released though.
     
  17. Watto

    Watto Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 1998
    Maybe this should be in the bonus material thread, but in the CEII Clone Wars panel Q&A, Filoni was on the fence about revealing info on a scene coming up that alluded to the repercussions of
    Ahsoka leaving.
    He kept wavering and basically said he wasn't sure if we'll see it or not. I was speculating that this 601 episode may have been the one, but that's just me.

    Now migrating to the other thread...
     
  18. hlc88

    hlc88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012

    I'll move my response over to the bonus material thread then :)
     
  19. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    It would be hilariously awkward if Padme spent most of the episode(s) trying to tell Anakin she was pregnant and getting interrupted every five seconds.

    "Annie, I just need to tell you that I..."
    "Not now Padme! I'm busy plastering your apartment with your old boyfriend!"
     
  20. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Am I the only one that wouldn't be surprised if Filoni would have done that if TCW went on?
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
  22. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012

    No, ur not the only one
     
  23. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    Hmmm. It adds new context to, "Luke, I am your father." doesn't it?
     
  24. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012
    :p

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
     
  25. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2011

    [​IMG]