ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

I'm not sure about that. SOTE could be one of the few exceptions. It was rather huge as far as Star Wars projects go.

 

TFU was pretty huge as well- and much more recent- yet I'm told there's already been tweets from Pablo Hidalgo saying "it's not canon".

 

Yes that's the sentence I quoted almost verbatim

I disagree. All you've done is circled back to the same tired old argument the EU-krishnas always use "Everything in the EU is canon - except for the parts which aren't."

I expect about 95% of the post-ROTJ EU released over the past 2 decades to be completely thrown out the window. We may see some familiar characters and locations, but we just aren't going to have those storylines in place.

However, the EU stuff we will see going forward (once the new licenses take over) will be much more consistent and all under the same umbrella with each other and the movies.

 

I am a fan of all of the novels and love the EU. That said, I'm OK if they BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND and make a good movie. Please don't shoehorn the EU in just to satisfy us Uber Fans.

 

^ tru dat. Absolutely #1 best priority is making a great Star Wars Episode 7 movie. Any other considerations should not be allowed to factor against that.

 

Although I'm not an EU "fan" (simply because I never got around to reading the books, not because I'm opposed to them) I'll say this if you're someone who's read the Thrawn Trilogy, or the NJO series, or Legacy, and you love it and consider it a testament to good Star Wars storytelling, it can still be that, even if it's canon status gets revoked. The post-ROTJ EU can still be enjoyed, not necessarily as official Star Wars stories or as alternate universe "what ifs", but as stories, period. They can still be enjoyed independently of their place amongst the greater Star Wars tapestry, and if they can't, then maybe they weren't that good to begin with. But my point is that all the artistry and authorship that went into those works is still there.


That's a big part of the reason why I'm so hesitant to say that "The EU is dead". You can't kill art just by saying it's not connected to another piece of art. It doesn't work that way. Also, the EU as a concept is a much bigger thing to me than just the couple dozen novels and comics that take place after ROTJ. It's about everything that you don't see on the screen, everything that you do see but isn't explained, the sense you get when watching the movies that this universe extends far beyond what you are being shown. It's the stories that take place in between the films, during the films, before the films. It's the little items, the names of background aliens, the history of an old ship flying through Coruscant. It's everything. You can't just kill that, and I don't think they will even try.

 

+1 +1 +1 and that's exactly how I feel. I enjoyed the Thrawn trilogy. It isn't going to lessen my enjoyment if/when E7 throws all those events out the window. In fact, I enjoyed reading the anniversary re-release of Heir to the Empire with author notes in the margins, and a lot of those notes admitted things were thrown away by the prequels.

 

The EU is so pervasive in the Star Wars universe simply for names of species & ships & planets & respective histories tied to those planets (Nar Shada? If that ever shows up damn skippy it'll be really similar to how it's been portrayed from Dark Empire onwards) that you can't simply delete all of it. It's interwoven onto the fabric of the franchise. However, Big Freakin' Deals of character family setup, histories of that character, the general direction of the power-structure in the universe, births, lives, deaths, relationships etc, that is fair game for the film franchise to set the direction.

 

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RebelForce Radio

Man, over the past few days, I don't believe I've ever seen a bigger surge of Star Wars misinformation happening. For starters, the Darth Maul comic coming from Dark Horse Comics, while based on a script from Lucasfilm Animation, IS NOT, and was never the intended finale for the series...The Star Wars canon stuff is totally being reported inaccurately across the web - The statement that all Star Wars stories will fall under one canon DOES NOT MEAN that all previous EU stories will be included. They can be used, yes, MOVING FORWARD. So essentially, it's business as usual in that dept...AND...During a AMC Movie Talk marathon, Jon Schnepp, a director on Metalocalypse, NEVER said the Boba Fett film would be the "FIRST" spinoff. He just said he heard it was ONE of the spinoffs coming, not necessarily the "FIRST". The internet echo chamber is once again working it's magic. What's next? Someone will report they actually found new Hasbro Star Wars Action Figures available at retail? -

 

Yea but if the NJO is revoked that means the Yuuzhan Vong will never be featured in Star Wars again and I will have no purpose in being involved in Star Wars. Hence, the EU is dead for me.

 

So what about Star Wars: The Old Republic? Game is based mostly around EU materials (both pre- and post-RotJ) and I'm sure it will be developed in and after 2015. Changes could lead to confusion, and millions of players are aware of the story. Sure, they can shut down the whole game but it gives EA huge profit now and it will give even more when new movies will come out so I think they will never kill it.

During Story Group panel in Germany (this years Celebration Europe) someone asked how canon is SWTOR and Leland said that all stories (class stories, flashpoints, planetary quests etc.) are canon, but the specific races, and players choices are not.

 

I'm not sure I understand this news, so is this a good thing or a bad thing for post-ROTJ EU lovers?

Unless they're going to green-light a KOTOR movie any time soon, then I imagine The Old Republic Era stories would be unscathed.

 

Jedi News' compilation of tweets regarding the new Star Wars Story Group.

http://www.jedinews.co.uk/news/news.aspx?newsID=14985

EU seems to go away because everything released will be cannon.

 

"Everything is now canon" clearly only applies to the movies, shows, and upcoming EU, and nothing else that has come before. If something new brings something old into the mix then only the new use of it will be canon... it wouldn't suddenly make the old version canon too. I think the story group's main purpose is coordination. Makings sure everything in the future fits together in a way the previous EU never did.

 

This is essentially how I see it too. The six existing movies, all future movies and shows, Rebels, and future EU will all be the same level of canon. TCW might be pending confirmation on that because it was produced pre-Disney, but since they've approved the just-announced Maul comic and the release of TCW "bonus content" at some point, it seems to be "blessed". Pre-Disney EU is apparently not considered canon at all anymore unless something from that (the name Coruscant, for example) is pulled in by one of the now-canon sources... and even then it would only be the "thing" itself and not necessarily the entirety of the EU source from where it came.

 

Which is why I used terms like "how I see it", "might be pending confirmation", "seems to be", and "apparently".

 

I know what you mean. There are way too many posts right now in SWTV taking news of the Maul comics for TCW incorrectly and definitively.

 

Obviously the films are Cannon, the television shows are Apocrypha, books/comics/etc... are Ecclesiastical Writings and Dogma.


And anything that mentions the Yuuzahn Vong is a Heresy.

 

I think they're waiting for the right time to drop the bombshell that all the previous EU is out the window, but I'm fairly confident that this is what they're building up to. All of the contextual evidence points to it pretty directly.

 

I've been quiet in this thread, but since things are simmering up for the future... I'm going to take my shot.

I think what we're going to see is a change in canon that mostly affects titles based on simply what year the ST is based on, and what backstory the ST establishes. Really, the Solo children and Mara Jade are the biggest issues that will determine exactly how much material survives, and how much does not.

1. It is possible, though unlikely, for everything to survive. However, in order to do this, they'd have to set the ST at least 46+ years after Yavin, a prospect which is far from impossible, but probably not likely. Still, there are a number of things that could be done with this. You keep Jaina Solo as the only Solo child that is ever mentioned on screen, and perhaps she's not seen in the films at all. You reorganize the galaxy to follow whatever political setup the ST writers feel like, and write a bunch of leadin tales to establish how the current form of government came to be. Given that Imperial remnants and the NJO still exist in the current EU, which are likely to be used in 'any' Lucas approved version of the ST... this is also not that hard to do. Everything that happened before could be kept as offscreen history that is occasionally referenced at best so as not to confuse audiences, but still "happens". Luke's marriage effectively is never discussed, Ben goes off somewhere... or has another role.

Doing it like this would allow a reasonable amount of creative freedom, a relatively clean slate for the ST, without de-canonizing 'anything' really. How likely is it to pan out like this? I'd say very, very unlikely. But people shouldn't discount it as impossible. There's nothing wrong with an elderly version of the Big 3 being leaders of a younger cast in 50ABY.

2. Alternatively, follow the real world ages of the Big 3 and you get a story set somewhere in 37-38 ABY (37+ years since the filming of ep IV). The entire Legacy era onward is declared an AU, and maybe the Dark Nest trilogy as well, but the Vong invasion and earlier stories survive. Jacen is alive, was never corrupted and remains closer with Jaina. Mara never dies. Ben is alive and explained in flashbacks or something. Chewie is somehow brought back. Storywise, it's a bit easier for the audience to swallow the NJO being created, and the galaxy surviving a major invasion off screen in the preceding time, but then history does what it wants. Ironically, the existence of the solo/skywalker families may limit the writers more in this time period than option 1... simply because it gives them more characters to explain to the audience... But I think people here fail to realize how easy it is to say in a film that Leia got married and had 2 (3?) kids, and Luke also found love and had a child.

This could happen, but it has problems of its own.

3. Set the ST 20-25 years after Yavin, and ignore the entire NJO onward. Settingswise, we're now getting much closer to the feel and vibe of the OT. Events that happen in the EU up to this point have fairly minimal impact on the universe overall, or are much more likely to fit in with the kind of political setup one would expect post ROTJ. The NJO is established, but can now be restructured any way the writers want for the ST. Named characters could be used (Kyle Katarn), but with minimal reference to their history so as to allow the writers freedom. Luke hasn't yet given brith to Ben (but perhaps is married unless you set it closer to 20ABY). Chewie's alive. No Vong (though they could still canonically exist). Thrawn and co happened, but because their stories are resolved, they're irrelevant. The New Republic is young and vulnerable and the imperial remnant is strong enough to still be used if need be, or weak enough to make unimportant if a new threat takes stage. The Solos have 3 kids, but you can still write them in whatever way you need without destroying their entire existence. Essentially, the entire bantam era line of novels, and nearly all comics are is preserved, but will almost never be referenced because they'd be unimportant to the current ST story. The Big 3 are a bit younger than their real ages, or more years have passed with a somewhat different history.

I think this scenario is more likely than either 1 or 2, and I think it'd be the happy medium that both the Disney writers, Chee/Pablo, and even most fans could live with. The loss of the Vong invasion and Legacy would be a bit sad, but oh well.

4. Nothing post ROTJ is kept, but most pre ROTJ stories survive simply because they're not contradicted directly, or the contradictions can be retconned. Thrawn trilogy, luke's marriage, the NJO establishment, Solo kids, Ben, none of it happens in any way resembling what was written. Completely fresh new take on everything after Ep VI.

This could happen, it may be the most likely option of any I mention. I think this would be a mistake, honestly... as I do not think the logic of whatever story they write dictates throwing out this much established lore. Given the advanced age of the Big 3, it wouldn't make sense to set their story 'less' than 20 years after the OT. And if you do that, why throw out 'everything'? Even the Solo kids? Still, this could be the outcome we see.

5. Nothing aside from TCW, Eps I-VI, and Rebels count. Anything published pre 2015 (maybe pre 2014) happened in an alternate universe that is in no way related to anything going forward. KOTOR? TOR? Tales of the Jedi? The micro series? Old Clone Wars comics? Plageuis novel? Not at all canon. Enjoy it if you own it, sure, but never publish it again and pretend it was never made if you're Disney.

This outcome is sadly possible, but it'd be the worst. This decision would be done more for business reasons and IP control than creative freedom. The franchise would be truly gutted and a lot of good games, stories, and ideas would be rendered worthless without gaining anything truly beneficial for stuff that Disney is likely to produce. The integrity of the franchise would also be lost because items created a mere few years before this would now never count. It would affect much more than just 20 year old books. I don't think this is the most likely outcome for the future, but it can happen. If it does, it'll be very hard for me to continue following Star Wars unless ep VII+ is very, very good. Some called TCW a canon steamroller, but TCW only rearranged the timeline somewhat. Chee never came out and said that the old CW stories didn't happen. We just never learned quite 'when' they happen. This would be far more radical.

So what do I think will happen? My guess, from likely to least likely: 4, 3, 5, 2, 1.

I'd personally be most okay with options 1-3, maybe option 2 is the most ideal since it eliminates stories that it seems a lot of the lit fans aren't happy with anyway (save legacy, but then again, that's so far out that it might still be able to happen... somehow).

That's my take on everything. I want to like ep VII, I really do, but I hope they approach canon in a tasteful, inclusive, and sensible way if they're going to change it.