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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph [Wheel of Time] A Memory of Light (HTR spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jek_Windu, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Thanks, Tim!


    I don't really consider those Compelled as Darkfriends. But I didn't realize that as I read through. Sometimes I skip over things...

    If Lan and/or Faile didn't live, I was probably going to cry. Lan deserves to live after all the utter crap the authors put him through. It really would have sucked for Nynaeve...and Perrin. They hide their emotions, but Lan & Faile bring out the best (and crazy :p) in them both.
     
  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    And so it begins.....

    [​IMG]

    Not quite sure which thread to go for now, given the last book's been out for ages.

    Anyway, have finally started the WoT re-read of Volumes 1-11. Could take a while, but am around 100 pages into Eye of the World.

    Oh and Nynaeve still has a "hate on sight" sticker plastered all over her character, if you wanted to start a war - then make her your chief negotiator, you'll be fighting before you know it!
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, got through Eye of the World, which had its high points - Shadar Logoth remains bloody creepy, as does the Blight. You can pretty much bank that there'll be a half-decent action finale.

    But problems..... Quite simply I'm not 14, that was a long, long time ago and I'm not sure what I ever saw in this lot, can't say I care for any of them! And if the truly teeth-grindingly bad social observations on gender were removed, the book would be so much shorter and better.

    In short, decided that I would be unable to stomach 10-11 more books of this so jumped to Book 12, the Gathering Storm.

    Will I read the next two? Yes, if only to see how it ends. Will they ever be re-read? Errrrrr...... I'll get back to you on that.

    It's interesting seeing how Sanderson writes the story, but I couldn't say his work here tops his own creations - I'd likely rank Mistborn or Stormlight Archive way above this. I also read far slower these days but tend to notice more - but on this one I was pretty much flicking through the pages, more often than not due to boredom. Sometimes due to the sheer artifice and dragged out nature, other things irritated - why the hell didn't anyone balefire Semirhage from the off? To a degree Sanderson is able to reduce the worst elements of Jordan's but he can only reduce.

    The problem with the relationships? I suppose the best defence of them you could make would be to class as soap opera. I'd still be inclined to class it as a really bad soap opera. There's 2 major issues with how the great bulk of the characters act. I've likely worked with hundreds of people over the last decade, very few toxic personalities or pointlessly adversarial gits amongst them, guess what? Yep, the WoT characters fall into both categories! Oh you can wield magic? Congrats, you get to be an even worse git than those without! At the same time, I've been married for just under 10 years. The result of both of those? None of these relationships works for me. It's too argy-bargy, too much conspiracy theory, too much rage and anger as a first resort, if not going all the way to out-right violence - it's quite repulsive.

    So onto Towers of Midnight..... Oh about that re-read? Highly unlikely I'd say.
     
  4. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    I feel like Sanderson did an excellent job keeping Jordan's style but weaning us from that enough that it's less 'in your face.'
    I also see it as that's how human history was in many places.


    Did you feel like you were missing too much? Since I know the entire story (okay, bits & pieces, my memory is horrid), when I read the later parts I really can't tell how well the past novels were summed up.

    Will I read the next two? Yes, if only to see how it ends. Will they ever be re-read? Errrrrr...... I'll get back to you on that.


    Balefire shouldn't even be used. It's horrific. It's like using an atom bomb or something to eliminate all enemies.

    Your take on the Sanderson front is spot on.
     
  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'm very sceptical of any fantasy being anything like history and don't really look to it to be that. Probably why GoT holds little appeal, if I want to read of a bunch of medieval houses being utter bastards, there's no shortage of the real thing available!

    Ever read Gaiman's Sandman? #73 has this great riff on how we view history compared to how it actually was - Gaiman was poking fun at the whole medieval era love-in, the underlying point being no one in their right mind would want to go back to that!

    As to the jump, had I not already read those books, I'd be missing loads but as it is there's so interminable plotlines, with little progress, it wasn't too bad.

    As to balefire, yes, I would agree in 987 out of 1000 cases, it should never be resorted - but I'll make an exception for the 13 Forsaken!

    There were things I liked in TGS but did I have go through a load of dross to get to them - Tam's very pointed put-down of Cadsuane was very satisfying, but it'll probably have bugger all actual effect. After several books of causing pointless and avoidable aggro on a large scale, Elaida gets nabbed by the Seanchan and.... oh, that's it? Kind of a poor pay-off there.
     
  6. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Jedi Ben I haven't read anything from Gaiman. I've heard "Sandman" is great though.

    Oh duh, you said "reread." [face_blush] eh-heh that makes sense
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, it's been a long, long time since I did read 'em!

    About 250 pages into ToM, surprisingly less irritating than TGS.
     
  8. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    If you do want to give Sandman a try, start with #8 The Sound of Her Wings then read The Doll's House arc, if it doesn't work for you, then it's likely not for you. That said, my first story was Season of Mists which is a little later.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Towers of Midnight is done.

    Definitely better than TGS, but some of it dragged greatly - especially the Perrin / Whitecloaks plot.

    The other major point is time - only 2 years? So Books 1-3 are about a year, Books 4-14 are about a year - no wonder the pace became so glacial with plots running forever.

    Oh and hell has frozen over as I've found in agreement with Nynaeve! Didn't expect that but liked her critique of the Aes Sedai and her asking what was the point of being so in the first place! Egwene, in contrast, infuriated by her arrogance that she knew it all. Did like that Gawyn finally took the hint and buggered off - only then to be to ordered back. Oh yeah, that's going to work. I suppose one defence is that these characters are young, they've into power to early to really know what they're doing with it cue major screw-ups across the board. Except it doesn't track as I've read other stories with young characters who have their selves far more together than this lot! It's as if everyone looks out for their ego first and to hell with anything like working towards common aims. Want someone to do something for you? Force, bully, coerce but don't even think of asking - pointless and irritating power games.

    The battle of Maradon was an utter grand-scale slaughter - watching Rand take out an entire Trolloc army was fun, as was his other activities. A whole load of characters have been saying that Rand should grow up? So when he gets his head sorted out and does? Still not happy. So what do these people want, save for a punch-up?
     
  10. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    A Memory of Light

    Well, that was.... relentless.

    In a lot of ways it felt like NJO's The Unifying Force, an unexpectedly strong conclusion that brought the best aspects of a flawed series to the fore and severely reduced the worst ones.

    I can't say I buy the theology though, that only works if you grant the Dark One and Creator are opposing sources of agency, up until now the Dark One had been deemed an influence only. Therefore the notion that removing the Dark One removes all agency from humanity doesn't work, removing the Dark One would take away a single corrupting influence, it wouldn't stop people choosing to be complete gits if they wished, just that they couldn't invoke as an excuse. Still, this is a minor fault, at worst, not least as fantasy is full of dodgy theology and metaphysics.

    Sanderson succeeded in making the women more heroic and less fool politicians - Egwene's defeat of Taim and the Sharans being a case in point. The dreamspikes were a clever addition to, not least as they can be used against the Shadow too.

    The final resolution? Definitely a case for filing under 'moves in mysterious frakking ways' - that was the idea? Weave Saidin, Saidar and the True Power, with Ishamael as a power-Duracell? Kind of an against the odd bet wouldn't you say? Still liked it, utterly absurd in its infinitesimal nature of happening - but hey, Rad's got to be a ta'averen for a reason, right?

    Found it a neat touch that, after being ensnared and done over by geopolitics several times over, Rand's attitude's to it all is: No, you're not returning to business as usual after all this!

    The addition of the red-veiled dark Aiel was out of the left-field but did have a certain logic to it.

    As to the Forsaken, Demandred did prove to be quite an Arch-Bastard - though it did come across as overkill to give him an entire nation of channelers, plus army, plus sa'angreal, that was all bit too convenient. Though, admittedly, as I get older, I do have less patience for such plot conceits. Graendel's fate was fitting. Liked that Perrin went and snapped Lanfear's neck, she was irredeemable in every sense.

    And the finale? I liked that Rand lived, the body swap notion was quite well done. Should he have abandoned Elayne and the children she carried? It'd be easy to lay the charge on him here but thinking it over a bit more - if he was around, he'd be enmeshed in politics and those kids would never be free of his shadow. This way, at least, they get to be free to be who they wish, and as Queen of Andor, it's not as if they'll have that harsh a life without him.

    Unlike the other two books of this final trio, this one managed to be quite different. It both demanded to be read and attention paid to the page, due to all that was kicking off. When it's been on form, WoT has always had that narrative force and hook that just encourages you to keep reading, no matter how imperfect at times the writing may be.

    So, all in all in one hell of a finale.
     
  11. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    kind of a sad commentary when the mormon who took over your series writes women better than you do, robert jordan
     
  12. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    DANG Jedi Ben you busted through them!


    The final resolution? Definitely a case for filing under 'moves in mysterious frakking ways' - that was the idea? Weave Saidin, Saidar and the True Power, with Ishamael as a power-Duracell?

    I thought it worked fairly well, overall. Yes, it was a bit extreme, but the entire series was as well. It's not an easy fix to Break the world! :p

    I plan on rereading it this year. I remember wanting to almost gasp for breath at the end - annoyed at some things but it was a great wrap-up to a series where the author died about 4/5 of the way.
     
  13. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  14. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I'm pretty excited to get a way to revisit this series that doesn't require me to reread thousands of pages of merely okay writing.
     
  15. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  16. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Sounds like they're cutting out a crap ton of the exposition that Jordan could gave fone in half a dozen chapters.

    Better for pacing.


    Looking forwards to this.

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk
     
  17. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    I'm mildly curious to get a way to revisit this series that doesn't require rereading thousands of pages that eventually burned me out on the whole story after 6 or 8 books. Honestly, I don't remember how far I got before I gave up. It's an interesting world, but the story just seemed to be meandering along with random stuff happening and none of it building to anything meaningful.
     
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  18. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I didn’t mind the meandering tangents in the end (I’m generally a fan of meandering tangents in books, and I knew there was an ending, so it just kind of soaked in) but there’s a lot they can effectively excise in the adaptation process. I do kind of wonder where exactly they’ve decided the “two books per season” approach they’re starting with will break down, though.
     
  19. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    I’m rereading but I’ve been meaning to for upward of 7-8 years, so it’s about damn time.

    Audiobooks at 2x speed, maybe?

    or for a truly abridged version, the WOT wiki could help.
    I like TOR recaps/rereads but those can be lengthy (if they even have them for any/all the books), but getting orhers’ insights and opinions is neat.

    on that note, there’s a podcast called “Wheel of Time Spoilers” that I heard about 1-2 weeks ago, and they go theu the books chapter by chapter. Most are 45-60 min long and again, adjusting the speed significantly shortens the time. I’m slow on it because of a current audiobook, but it has made me go back and look up parts of EotW even tho I only reread it like 2 months ago.
    That podcast may actually be your best bet! It’s still a WIP but you’ll be caught up for season 1 of the show at least.
     
  20. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Personally, I'm not a fan of rereading books right before a movie or TV show comes out. That just makes it more obvious what the movie changed. Better to go in with no expectations and let the film tell its own story. Movies are written for people who never read the book, and most movies work better that way.
     
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  21. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    That is fully understandable.
     
  22. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    It appears there is supposed to be a teaser trailer out tomorrow at 8:30 am Pacific.
     
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  23. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    We have a trailer!

    The average viewer may see this as another Game of Thrones/LOTR/Witcher clone, but damn it looks nice.
     
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  24. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    That's definitely going to be its biggest issue.

    ... But since I'm not the average viewer holy **** they actually got the designs right, this is a real thing they spent money on. Please be good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  25. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    I'm happy, roll on November.

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk