Lit A/V The Force Awakens and the EU [TAGGED spoilers.]

Being about money, and doing what will make the majority of people happy are one and the same.
The way to make the most money = making things that people will be most likely to enjoy (and hence buy).

I would be very worried if they decided to go ahead and not make it "about money" and instead cater to a minority of hardcore fans who are so impossible to please that they will complain regardless.

 

The whole idea of "C-canon" (i.e. "this is all canon except when it's not") was basically a fig leaf to hide the fact that the EU was apocryphal anyway. Really, having canon that can be contradicted is like being a married bachelor.

So they really haven't done anything to the already-published material. What they have done is tightened canon policy on future releases--no more, no less.

 

New Star Wars films.

duh

 

The reaction of many people on this forum to what Disney did to the EU.




And though it is now shown in that video, the ruined "Statue of Liberty" represents the status of the old EU now. What once was important, stories that mattered and happened in the star wars universe......is just left to rot....in ruins....a shadow of its former self........

 

Why does that give you hope. The same was said when news that Lucas was making the PT broke or when they were making new Star Trek films (by the same director). The results of both speak for themselves.

 

PT could have been better, but was still a lot better than getting nothing at all. Sequel trilogy WILL be better, of that I have no doubt. And the new Star Trek films were both fantastic so I really don't know what you're referring to.

 

Yeah, I think people are really not understanding how this works. As if JJM mentioning Zayne is suddenly going to make the entire KOTOR run canon. Or, hey, maybe he can mention the events of Kenobi, which will canonize Kenobi, which mentions Zayne, which means the entire KOTOR run is canon! It doesn't work that way. If the Tarkin book mentions Eriadu, then a planet named Eriadu exists. Was it the site of the assassination of the Trade Federation directors? Not unless Luceno specifically mentions it. Would mentioning it mean Havac is canon? No, because simply namedropping a thing does not canonize the entire source that contains the thing. It does not canonize everything about that thing. Maybe Eriadu is tidally locked like Ryloth in the brave new canon! That's just not how it's going to work. Story Group allowing you to mention some word, if it even actually notices, does not mean that it's vetted everything about that thing that you already know and agreed to bind Episode IX by The Glove of Darth Vader. (And anyone who thinks that even something fully SG-approved like Heir to the Jedi is going to bind J.J. Abrams when he decides he really wants to do something with Episode VIII that conflicts with some detail of HTTJ is delusional. This is a one-way street in which they try to keep the spinoff stuff out from under the feet of the "important" stuff and on-message with the marketing; they're not planning Tarkin to tell the multimillion-dollar-budget moviemakers what they can and can't do ten years down the road.) Dantooine is definitely canon, because it's mentioned in ANH. But "Dantooine is canon" is meaningless because nothing you know about Dantooine is canon. Is it a gorgeous grassland? Does it have natives named Dantari? Is there an old Jedi Enclave? We don't know. Dancing around because "Dantooine is still canon, yay!" is just a total failure to understand what is actually happening. You're dancing because a word still exists. Absolutely nothing else. If J.J. Abrams wants to use the name Dantooine for his water planet in Episode VII, then Dantooine's a goddamned water planet. Ain't nothing KOTOR or The Essential Guide to Planets and Moons can do about it.

Wedge Antilles is currently canon. Wedge Antilles is also currently absolutely nothing other than just another movie extra.

All this actually means is that the old EU is a source for names of things it's not worth the effort to rename, and maybe if we're lucky background it's not worth the effort to retell. And also maybe if they feel like it, they can plunder existing EU concepts or designs in order to put them up onscreen in a completely reinterpreted new way a la TCW's Ryloth and Quinlan Vos and Mandalorians and every other piece of EU it touched. When Grand Admiral Thrawn inevitably shows up, he will be a new character named Grand Admiral Thrawn who has glowy eyes and blue skin in a new story. He won't show up by putting the Story Group stamp on TTT; he will show up in a new story replacing TTT. And it won't make the Galaxy of Fear book where he shows up canon, either. They'll use the phrase "Rogue Squadron," I'm sure, because everyone knows it. But that won't canonize X-wing, and it won't mean they're going to use Tycho, it won't mean they'll use any of the established history or facts around it. When the people look at the EU for ideas, it is not to say, "Let's make Corran Horn and all the X-wing books canon." It's to say, "Oh, a Jedi who can't do telekinesis. That's interesting. Oh, and I like the green robes. Let's make a guy like that." And maybe they call him Corran Horn, and maybe they decide Gavin Darklighter is a way cooler name and they'll make him Biggs's bastard son Luke adopted after the trilogy. Or maybe they just call him Shaz Whappington. The EU is not the coherent set of stories, events, characters, places, all that, that you know. It's just a giant undifferentiated pile of names and ideas, of which only the most basic and surface ones are likely to actually be drawn.

 

They have as much right to like or dislike something as anyone, especially since they have paid for it. It's not like Lucas/Disney whomever have done them a favour. They sold them something.

 

Of course they do. Completely irrelevant to the point but ok.

 

I keep forgetting to log in around here.

In any case does anyone know what's going to happen with Clone Wars? Is it going to go under LU, NU or an odd case of where it fits under both much like the Movies themselves? From what I've seen they've even managed to fit New Mandalorians alongside the whole True Mandalorians/Death Watch conflict. Then there's the whole Abeloth fitting in with the Mortis Arc, so where does all of that fit in?

 

I don't even want to think about what all this will mean for Wookieepedia. Not only that, but suddenly I find myself far, far less excited for and interested in Ep. VII.

 

TCW is considered full Canon, same as the Movies and soon Rebels (Along with the books coming out starting in September and the Darth Maul miniseries starting in May.)

Abeloth is probably gone for good from the EU. Unless that was a detail that was from Lucas that would eventually be built upon (And in that case, still probably would be), then Abeloth is poof.

 

Bye Caedus, bye Waru, bye whatever Karen Traviss did, bye black fleet crisis, bye Kueller, bye Darksaber, bye Children of the Jedi, bye Callista, bye dark nest trilogy.

 

I think we are going to disagree on the ST films. The first was enjoyable but empty mindless action romp though you had to ignore the gaping plot holes, character inconsistencies and motivations and plainly filler scenes but still in it's own way enjoyable but the 2nd was all that is wrong about film making nowadays and was pure s@@@e

 

*Dork Nest Trilogy

 

Legacy of the Farce

 

New Jedi Orwell

 

I'll just end up head-canoning it as everything pre ROTJ to 9 years or so post ROTJ is canon. Sadly everything else is pretty much gone.

WHY Disney? You could have still saved so much stuff! What's so offensive to them about pre-ROTJ stuff?

 

Unless any of the new media contradicts the old, then it's still as "canon" as it was before.

 

If only that were so. But no, it isn't. The announcement was quite clear in this regard.

 

Oh wait... you're serious?

Who knows? That's an ultimate what-if territory Q isn't it?

Oh, some of us lost those years ago.

Oh, oh dear.... Yes, that is funny.

And thus you are truly prepared for law school!

There isn't one.

Wow, never knew you felt this way about NJO Jello, I've mellowed with age on it somewhat but this sums up a large part of why I disliked it greatly.

Quite so, but as there's little that can be done about, my response is to simply prevent it wrecking what I like about SW, as this sort of news can easily poison that.

I rest my poisoning case! What a very sad outlook.

 

"Best that could have been hoped for"? By whom? Sure, purists and people who don't like the EU are more than happy with the outcome. Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude. But for fans who actually liked the EU (you know, the people that actually bought all the books, comics, etc. over the years when there weren't any new SW movies out at the time) that's pretty far away from the "best" outcome. Apart from "there won't be any EU or continuity at all", it's actually the second-worst decision they could have come up with.

We'll see if it's going to make LFL/Disney happy.

 

The best outcome from an overall perspective. Which is why they've done it, they're not stupid. They know what they're doing.

Could they have made all the EU canon with the movies? sure, but it would have greatly diminished the quality of the movies for many reasons, and this EU was an absolute mess anyway.

btw I own every piece of star wars literature there is, many of the novels I actually have 2 copies of (hardcover and paperback), I've read them all several times and have been involved for over a decade so I am well acquainted with the "fans who actually liked the EU" viewpoint. I even really liked all of Troy Denning's recent work. So if anyone should be upset it would be me, but I'm not, because I don't live in a fairy land where books not being "canon" all of a sudden changes them in some way.

 

There's a difference in 'EU' now. It's Star Wars Legends, or 'Legends Universe' (LU) and the 'New Expanded Universe' (NU). I asked if Clone Wars is going to fit in with the Legends Universe. Rebels won't be fitting in with Legends, that much has been confirmed. It's going to be purely new material, with the newly announced novels as tie-ins. From what I understand, all of the planned material for the old EU will be published under the Legends sub-title, so we'll still get to see a finished off Legacy and so on.