ST Practical or CGI?

I think the biggest improvement with the CGI Yoda in TPM was just the more accurate design. And a bit more lip movement. But in that Council scene, there's still not much variation in the expression and the lighting seems off. The puppet Yoda looks more like he's part of the scene to me, even if the design was weird.

I wish there was more to see than that one clip. Did they actually replace all the puppet scenes with CGI for the TPM Blu-ray?

 

How much is there, really, to fight about?

All the space stuff and distant alien landscapes/skies will be CGI, unless they patch in a few elements from real explosions for better debris (unlikely). Andy Serkis will work his magic with a mo-cap character or two. Plenty of droids, soldiers, and super-exotic aliens are guaranteed CGI. Plus innumerable shields, blaster bolts, lightsaber blades, holograms, and screen graphics.

On the physical side, there will be plenty of man-in-suit aliens -- Twileks, Wookiees, and the like-- and other elaborate armor/costumes (e.g. Vader, C-3PO). And objects for actors to interact with -- tables, chairs, doors, floors, cockpits, controls, weapons, and smaller props. Some things just have to be real.

So what's really on the table here? The few, relatively immobile, aliens that could realistically go either puppet or CGI. Certain mooks/troops/extras. Certain parts of indoor sets that could be extended more in real life before becoming virtual. Landed starfighters, and the hatches of bigger ships like the Falcon. A real R2. Real vs. digital stunt doubles. Fire and explosions, in a few places.

I don't see where any huge debates are going to take place. I mean, if there's a golden opportunity for puppetry, I certainly hope it's used and used well, but I don't really see any big "puppets to the rescue" opportunity here.

 

... cgi is fine these days... after all, i think most agree that Yoda worked as a cgi character... but i was just watching Return of The Jedi recently and it hit me that Salacious Crumb was a muppet... well, a muppet gone bad... i'd love to see some of that retro, 80's muppet charm in the new ones...

 

There were most definitely scenes where R2 and Chewie were CGI.

 

I don't think he worked.

Honestly, I think that they got a better performance and more character out of the performance of the Yoda puppet in ESB/ROTJ then they ever got from any CGI Yoda (or the original puppet yoda in TPM). As cool as it is to be able to do anything with Yoda in CGI, it ruined his character a little. He has more personality with Luke and when his eyes widen it's kind of funny, adding a touch that makes him more real imo. It has less to do with whether it's a puppet or not and more to do with how they wrote Yoda in the prequels and how well they actually animated him. I've seen believable facial expressions in CG characters like Gollum. He has a goofy wide eyed stare and personality. It's possible. They just did a bad job of bringing his character out. He kind of walked a line originally between joking and being serious, very playful. His words seemed more wise and impactful. "That is why you fail." or "Do or do not, there is no try." They did not give him much life in the prequels. No funny side, no really wise things to say. Just something along the lines of "Not if anything to say about it, have I." His facial expressions almost always seem pained or blank. The closest they came to his character we see in the OT was when he jokingly messes with Obi-Wan in front of the children in ROTS. I think we could have used a little more of his playful side to bring more life to the character. His little laughs and giggles and stuff round out his character more.



... and in terms of dramatic effect. They more effectively show despair, disappointment, concentration, etc. in the puppet then they ever did using CGI. Just note the little things like how his ears twitch or his eyes widen... how he moves and looks around. The performance is REALLY good for a puppet.




Honestly, they just kind of got his character wrong. They did a poor job at capturing a similar performance in animation. At least based on what we saw in the OT. I think it can be done in CGI, it just wasn't/hasn't yet.

 

i don't think chewie was ever cg.

 

I think youre very wrong

 

I know some Wookiees were. They were mostly shots from a distance if I remember correctly.

 

I think I'd always say 'why one or the other'? Use them as they see fit... I personally don't want to see another muppet show e.g. Jabba's palace, just as much as I don't want to see the silly CGI aliens from the Podrace (sans Sebulba).

 

Using puppets in this day & age .....

 

It's not a "this or that" situation. They'll use it depending on what the scene, situation, creature, machine, requires. Most of the time, it's a good mix of both and that's the way it should be.

 

Indeed - imagine how much more awesome puppet Yoda and puppet Jabba would be if they were able to CGI the eye and mouth movements, better facial expression.

There's room for both IMO.

 

Although the ROTJ Jabba is the effect which best stood up to the test of time, in my view. Not many "puppets" get even close to him.

 

Totally - the tongue movements, the arms, the tail, all great stuff....

His lazy eye that is sometimes half shut and doesn't move as well as the other one - meh

 

I kind of always interpreted that as him being stoned out of his damn mind
Imagine the amount of drugs a 6 ton Hutt needs to consume to be in such a state hahah.

 

If I could like that post more than once I would. Actually made me laugh out loud.

Wonder what's in his pipe?

 

.... is a great thing if it works for the shot. Might I direct your attention to the awesome upcoming project by Studio ADI known as Harbinger Down?

Practical effects (puppets, miniatures, animatronics, etc.) are fantastic tools, as is CGI. They both have their uses, it's just a matter of knowing how and when to use them.

 

Exactly. My friend and me overanalyzed that scene quite a bit. One of the deciding factors was in the moment where a hologram is turned on, quite an everyday item in the galaxy, and Jabba goes all wide eyed "...OoooOOoooh..." We compared that to a human who is... ahm... under heavy influence turning on a TV and being amazed by it haha.

 

Don't want to be rude but I think that anyone expecting this movie to be a 70's retro party will leave the theater on a huge depression.

 

"Huh... guess it really is a moon. Just... a very weird one, sir."

 

Yup yup. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Whether they use a lot of CGI or not, I hope that they do not try to replicate the look of the OT. The look needs to change in order to reflect the tone and the style of this particular trilogy, just as it did in the Prequels. I want to see designs evocative of what we saw before, but not necessarily the exact same things.

 

Some people still doesn't realize the amount of CGI used today, even in average - not fantasy or scy-fi movies. I recall to be surprised when learned about the CGI FX in a random Sandra Bullock movie [don't remember the title but was something related to wheater, snow and the like ]

 

I'm not saying CGI shouldn't be used, it has its place like everything else, it's just I'd like to see them use some of the innovations in robotics today to make some great, animatronic aliens.

While CGI has advanced to great places today, so has robotics, it's just robotics aren't used as much in movies these days as CGI is.