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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Beyond the big two: lesser Force traditions in the GFFA

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Gamiel, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I'm not sure what to think when the in-universe consequences of five years of publishing can be summed up in a paragraph.

    Maybe I might be more amenable to it if the resultant storytelling wasn't a dumpster fire.
     
    Thuro likes this.
  2. Thuro

    Thuro Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Dumpster fire is an understatement. Its more like this.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    So do we know anything about the Potentium beside their philosophy? How did they dress; what species were members; from where were they operating; how did they recruit?
     
  4. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Not really.
    [​IMG]

    This is the one picture we have of different followers of the Potentium, which to me says that they came from all different walks of life, outside of being Force Users, and didn't have a set uniform. I'd think that, since no such species bias has ever been mentioned, or implied, they would accept members from all species as well.
     
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  5. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    How do you know that one of those two is not a Force user? And I did not ask if they had uniforms.
    Just because an organisation are all inclusive in theory don't mean they recruit from all kind of people. Let me restate my question: what kind of people become members of the Potentium and how did they recruit?
     
  6. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Can't remember the exact source this picture is from, but from what I remember based on the written passages with it it was going with the idea that both were Force Users.

    Uh, You specifically asked how they dressed. And I made a note that based on this picture there wasn't a set uniform, as you see two different members, dressed completely differently, instead of say a picture of three all wearing robes, as you often do with the Jedi. That's a hint to how they dress, which was again one of your questions. So defining that they don't seem to have a set uniform is an important note to make in regards to how they dress, and is a trait of the Order, which is again what you asked for. :rolleyes:

    I'd say it's more likely that they do recruit from all races of beings, which is what I was mostly saying. And again, the one picture we have depicts two people with drastically different styles of dress, and so I think the implication is that they have two different vocations, and that it is something of a possible trend with the Followers.

    No hint as to what their recruiting practices are though. I was simply using the little information we do have to make a guess or two.
     
  7. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    So it is time we stated with prestige classes. For you who don't know -
    The prestige classes open to the Force adept that were introduced in the Revised Core Rulebook were the dark side devotee and dark side marauder. We will begin with the Dark side devotee
    The dark side devotee have some Class features that represented Force powers: Dark Side Skill Emphasis; Dark Side Talisman and Force Weapon
    Dark Side Skill Emphasis/Level 1: the devotee gets a special knack for a dark side skill. The dark side skills that are presented in SW:RCR are: Fear; Force Grip and Force Lightning
    Dark Side Talisman/Level 2: the devotee imbues an item of personal significance with the dark side of the Force. Once imbued the new talisman gives a bonus when the devotee try to defend against non-dark side Force tricks or attacks.
    Force Weapon/Level 6: the devotee imbue a nonpowered melee weapon with the Force, which for a short time increase the damage and make it possible to parry a lightsabre. I still don’t understand why you cannot use it on a powered melee weapon.

    I like how they present the life of a devotee as something filled with fear and power hunger and not in any way cool. Beside that I don't really have any thoughts about the dark side devotee.

    The dark side devote prestige class was illustrated with an image by Lee Bermejo
    [​IMG]

    Later in the RCR, in the ‘Allies and Opponents’ chapter, they present a generic dark side adept NPC that is built from the Force adept and dark side devotee -
    The low-level dark side adept that "can be found dominating the weak-minded on whatever planet she calls home" is a level 4 Force adept
    The mid-level dark side adept the "has left her world in search of secrets hidden elsewhere in the galaxy" is a Force adept 6/Dark side devotee 2
    The high-level dark side adept that "has gained more than a few followers and might one day rule over a distant world or far-flung system" is a Force adept 6/Dark side devotee 6

    Any thoughts or comments?
     
  8. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Okej, thanks.

    Sorry if I sounded snappy, I was a bit stressed when I posted and should have spent more time with my text, it is just that many organizations/faiths/cultures have some kind of unifying look, garment or piece of clothing etc., without having a uniform.

    Maybe; maybe-not.
    Well, thanks for what little there was. It was more then what I been told the other times I posted that question. [​IMG]
     
  9. Battlehymn_Republic

    Battlehymn_Republic Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2007

    I'd imagine it'd be something like trying to fight Magneto with all-plastic Sentinels and other weaponry. His sheer mastery over EM will result in him simply tearing through the boundaries that limit him. Like if you crowded a true Sith lord with Ysalamiri it'd just project enough explosive force outwards and throw the tree lizards away, pressing against the bubbles they exert over it.
     
  10. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    The dark side marauder begin with one feat that represented a Force power/technique: Rage

    Rage/Level 1: the marauder channel her anger into a berserker fury, increasing her battle prowess as she let the dark side flow through her.

    Thoughts
    I like that the marauder completely lacks any "real" Class features, she begins with Rage - which is a standard dark side feat that theoretically any darksider can learn - and have only one other Force feat, Hate, among the Bonus feats that she can "learn". This is a good representation of their lack formal training; at the same time part of me would really like to have some kind of "Fists of Fury", "Blade of Rage" and "Hate-douken" techniques but that is just the wuxia fan in me.

    I would have liked an example of one of those “exclusive company of Force-strong soldiers-of-fortune” that they mention.

    Beside that I don't really have any other thoughts about the dark side marauder.

    The dark side marauder prestige class was illustrated with an unnamed image by Doug Alexander Gregory
    [​IMG]
    the same design was used to illustrate the changeling prestige class in Ultimate Alien Anthology, Abel G. Peña later stated that they were they same person: the sith lord Belia Darzu.
    Personally I don't like this since it means that one more "lesser" Force user become tied to the sith instead of belonging to a independent tradition or being self learned.

    Any thoughts or comments?
     
  11. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    The Class features that spirit master have represented Force powers/techniques are: Spirit Totem, Spirit Lore, Spirit Focus, Unseen Defender and Spirit Form
    Spirit Totem/Level 1: “The spirit master gains a spirit totem that only she can see or hear (in actuality, simply a manifestation of her own selfimage, made “real” by the Force).” This means that the spirit master is more alert since she has “extra eyes and ears” and later enchants some of her Force skills.
    Spirit Lore/Level 2: “the spirit master can commune with the spirits (or rather, meditate on the Force) to ask questions that can be answered by a simple yes or no. […] The answers are correct, as long as they involve information about the past or present. Information about the future is always “unclear,” since the future is always in motion. […] This ability requires an hour of meditation per question.”
    Spirit Focus/Level 5: “the spirit master is able to ‘call upon the power of the spirits’ to vex her foes in battle. As an attack action, the spirit master can focus the attention of the spirits on a target individual.” this means that the actions of the chosen enemy become more difficult.
    Unseen Defender/Level 6: “the spirits begin to protect the spirit master from physical harm. Small objects within a few meters of the spirit master lift into the air and surround her (in reality, a subconscious manifestation of the spirit master’s Alter feat), absorbing some of the incoming damage.”
    Spirit Form/Level 10: “The spirit master can enter the spirit world for brief periods, projecting her presence a short distance away—in effect, creating a Force duplicate of herself. The duplicate looks, sounds, and smells just like the spirit master but is intangible.” The master can see and hear through the spirit form and channel some Force powers through it.

    There was no illustration for the spirit master Prestige class

    Thoughts
    The spirit master Prestige class is more or less created only for the spirit adept class but I don’t really see any problem with this since the jedi have three Prestige classes only for them in the core book.

    I have no problem with the spirit masters being more powerful then the jedi in some areas since they have a different speciality. On the other hand I am wondering why “Jedi often finds difficult to grasp) the spirits—that is, the Force—work the trick, not the Force-user” since the jedi, at least in the old order, are thought from early age that, well, the Force work the trick, not the Force-user.
    Beside that I don't really have any other thoughts about the spirit maste.

    Any thoughts or comments?
     
  12. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I made a mistake: to be clear, Spirit Master appears in Hero’s Guide: Web Enhancement - Character Templates and Prestige Classes page 5-7
     
  13. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    The beastwarden have some Class features that represented Force powers: Familiar, Increased Speed, Herd Animal Companion, Mount Defence, Calming Aura, Predator Companion and Animal Senses
    Familiar/Level 1: the beastwarden can create a Force bound with a normal animal, creating a familiar. The Familiar become smarter, tougher and over-all better and the ‘warden can telepathically communicate with it and “see” through it senses.
    Increased Speed/Level 3: “A beastwarden is fleet of foot”.
    Herd Animal Companion/Level 4: the ‘warden summons a larger animal to function as a beast of burden or as her ‘noble steed’, sadly not voiced by Eddie Murphy.
    Mount Defence/Level 4: when the ‘warden is in mounted combat she has a greater defence.
    Calming Aura/Level 5: the ‘warden “can draw upon her natural animal affinity to calm wild beasts, causing hostile and unfriendly creatures to treat her with indifference.”
    Predator Companion/Level 7: the ‘warden “gains the service of a loyal predator, which serves as both a guardian and companion.”
    Animal Senses/Level 9: the ‘warden senses get so sharp that she has a doglike sense of smell and can use her senses to “see” for 10 m even in total darkness.

    The beastwarden prestige class was illustrated with an unnamed ithorian by Doug Alexander Gregory
    [​IMG]
    Thanks to Rogue Five for the pic

    Thoughts
    I say that in YJK Jacon was definitely multiclassing Jedi/beastwarden. I guess that him beginning to take levels in Sith lord shows that you should never allow your PC to be used by somebody else when you leave the group :p

    Overall I like the beastwarden even if I find the description given a bit too technological hostile and isolationistic without any suggested alternative: in a galaxy as diverse as SW:s there should be ‘wardens living in urban areas or having an traditional roll in a community, among mounted nomads they could actually easy be some kind of shaman-chieftain.

    I find it interesting that you get calming aura after mount defence and I would have liked to have some kind of alternative to mount defence for the players who don’t want their PC to be riding all the time.

    Something I miss, and this is actually something I miss with all the other classes I have gone through, is a small list of examples of traditions as inspirations for the player and GM for how they could play. Or at least some name dropping, I suggest: Dathomirian Beast Mambos, Pzob’s Wildriders, the Shaman-Chieftains of the Ysanna, Munto Codru’s Wild Wizards and the Glom Druids from Metellos.*

    Any thoughts or comments?

    * Those names are all fan created and have no bearing in canon discussions but are fully available for fanfics and fanart. If you use them in your fanfic/-picture please contact me because I want to see how they are portrayed.
     
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  14. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Bloody Druids, they already sucked in D&D, though I have to admit the idea of a Revwien Beastwarden would be rather amusing.
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I chose druid because they are, to my knowledge, the most stereotypical nature worshiper in RPG-circles so I thought it would be funny to have them on the highly polluted and overbuilt "Coruscant that wasn't".
    Fully agree
     
  16. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012

    Since this was fun I decided to it again for the classes I have already gone through*

    Spirit adept: Dantooine's Ju-ju makers, ewok shamans, coway crystal gazers, mimbanite dreamspeakers and Drexel’s sea witches
    Urban adept: Silver Star gunslingers, the techno-shamans of Nar Shaddaa, Bin Prime's virtual adepts, Verpine dreamspeakers and the Bonadanian blaster masters.
    Dark side devotee: Ordo Aurorae Aureae, cult of Exar Kun, Ossus' storm callers, the curse makers from Bin Prime and the illtravellers
    Dark side marauder: disciple of Gouki, Gamorrean fire belchers, Nikolai's red suites, the Teräs Käsi masters of Tengil and Black Coat gunslingers

    * Beside the Cult of Exar Kun, Ewak shamans, and some small shout-outs, those names are all fan created and have no bearing in canon discussions but are fully available for fanfics and fanart. If you use them in your fanfic/-picture please contact me because I want to see how they are portrayed.
     
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  17. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I would like to make a correction: the beastwarden class was described on pages 200-203 in Ultimate Alien Anthology

    I would also like to mention that in the descrition of the Force adept in the Revised Core Rulebook they mention the ecological priests of Ithor and it is possible that that the ithorian we see ilustrating the beastwarden class could belong to them.
     
  18. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    The mystic agent has some Class features that represented Force powers/technique: Closed Mind, Weapon Concealment, Wallwalk, Channel Vitality, Unarmed Force Stun and Improve Force Stun
    Closed Mind/Level 1: “A mystic agent masters several techniques to guard her mind against unwanted mental intrusion.”
    Weapon Concealment/Level 1: the agent can use the Force to make a already concealed weapon or other item even harder to notice.
    Wallwalk/Level 2: using the Force the agent can climb like Spider-Man across vertical, angled and even horizontal surfaces.
    Channel Vitality/Level 3: by drawing on her own life-force the agent can temporarily increase some of her more physical skills.
    Unarmed Force Stun/Level 5: the agent can “use the Force to stun foes with her unarmed attacks”, this means that not only does the agent's unarmed attack do normal damage but also stuns the opponent for a shot time.
    Improve Force Stun/Level 10: as above but the opponent is stunned for a bit longer.

    The mystic agent prestige class was illustrated with an unnamed chiss by Doug Alexander Gregory. I have not been able to fin that image on the net.

    Thoughts
    The way I see it the mystic agent class is for every player who want to play a Force ninja[​IMG]. In Courtship of Princess Leia there are some nightsisters who show the wallwalk power (would not surprise me if they belonged to the Spiderclan) so in WotC Star Wars they probably multiclassed with the mystic agent-class.

    Something I have been wondering about, even in earlier classes I have gone through, is why so many of the Class features are not standard feats, especially since the jedi probably spent millenniums gathering information about different techniques from all over the galaxy. So it fells that they should have access to those feats, but when it comes to channel vitality I don’t see the jedi teaching that technique, the same goes for the Seyugi Dervishes’ uncanny speed feat. I quite like it that they have power at a price techniques since it, to me, feels like something that a normal jedi don’t have but can fit a lesser tradition.

    As earlier I miss a small list of examples of traditions as inspirations for the player and GM for how they could play an agent. Or at least some name dropping, I suggest: the Astral Knives, the Ksirafai of Ordo Aurorae Aureae, the Spiderclan of the Nightsister, the Teräs Käsi masters of Tengil’s Shadow Fist and the Stranglers of the Red Noose.*

    Any thoughts or comments?

    * Beside the Spiderclan of the Nightsister and some small shout-outs, those names are all fan created and have no bearing in canon discussions but are fully available for fanfics and fanart. If you use them in your fanfic/-picture please contact me because I want to see how they are portrayed.
     
  19. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    This prestige class is open to members of species with natural telepathy and Force users who have mastered telepathy.

    The telepath has some class features that represented Force powers/technique: Thought Sensor, Mind Probe, Psychic Citadel, Mind Shared, Thought Bomb, Neural Storm, Psychic Scourge, Receptacle and Psychic Avatar

    Thought Sensor/Level 1: the telepath can sense the psychic vibrations of all living beings around her, making it impossible for anything with an unguarded mind to surplice her.
    Mind Probe/Level 1: by concentrating “the telepath can focus her mind on a specific target and pry one piece of information form the target’s mind.”
    Psychic Citadel/Level 2: “the telepath’s ability to defend herself against mental attacks improves.”
    Mind Shared/Level 3: “the telepath can drive daggers of psychic energy into others’ minds, disrupting their neural pathways.”
    Thought Bomb/Level 4: “the telepath can release a burst of psychic energy that scrambles the thought patterns of living creatures within range.”
    Neural Storm/Level 5: the “telepath can overload a living creature’s neural network, causing momentary disorientation.”
    Psychic Scourge/Level 7: “the telepath can lash one or more opponents with tendrils of psychic energy.”
    Receptacle/Level 8: the telepath “can imbue a rare and valuable amulet, cloak pin, brooch, or other piece of jewelry with a fraction of his telepathic power.” This more or less means that the item now work as an extra reserve of Force energy for the telepath, a Force battery if you will. I find it interesting that is more important that the item is made of valuable material then that it has any personal signification to the telepath, and I would like to know the metaphysics for how it works since I don’t remember anything in the fluff that indicate that you can imbue an item with your own energy for later use, Force nexuses and natural items that makes it easier to draw upon the Force yes, personal batteries no.
    Psychic Avatar/Level 9: “the telepath can project a mental image of himself – a psychic avatar across great distances. A psychic avatar is a translucent, three-dimensional projection of the Telepath similar in appearance to a Force spirit.” The avatar can be manifested anywhere the telepath have been before and can visualise. In this state the telepath can not use her or be affected by physical Force techniques/attacks or the one that manipulate the physical world but mental/spiritual techniques/attacks work just fine.
    When using this power the telepath is in “a state of suspended animation”.

    The telepath prestige class was illustrated by Doug Alexander Gregory with an unnamed nagai.
    [​IMG]

    Thoughts
    To many attack powers, I know this is a d20 RPG but it would be nice if there was a bit more diversity in what you get. I think it would have been better if many of those powers had been turned into Feats that the player could chose instead of just getting when you level-up since probably not all wants to be some kind of Psi-blasting mind warriors.

    I like that they did not give the telepath the possibility to also chose the Force skills/feats needed for other things then telepathy, so no telekinesis or body enchanting unless you multiclass :)

    I wonder if the illustrated telepath belongs to a nagai tradition or is just a nagai member of a multi species tradition.

    As earlier I miss a small list of examples of traditions as inspirations for the player and GM for how they could play a telepath. Or at least some name dropping, I suggest: the Purple Sisterhood; Adeptus Psykana of Ordo Aurorae Aureae; the Mind Warriors of Draethos; Iktotch’s Scholastia Psykana; and the Hortekian Mind Masters.*

    I also miss a list of naturally telepathic species so you don’t need to go thought UAA from cover to cover to know what species can chose this class without needing to have Force training.

    Any thoughts or comments?

    Next time I will actually describe a real Force tradition instead of just a template: Gand Findsmen!

    * Beside some small shout-outs, those names are all fan created and have no bearing in canon discussions but are fully available for fanfics and fanart. If you use them in your fanfic/-picture please contact me because I want to see how they are portrayed.
     
  20. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I wonder if any of the "EU understanding" of the Force, and existence of non-Jedi/Sith orders, will survive into the ST and new EU.
     
    Findswoman likes this.
  21. Findswoman

    Findswoman Fanfic and Pancakes and Waffles Mod (in Pink) star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2014

    One certainly can hope. The galaxy's too big to have only two Force traditions!
     
  22. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Three, the Nightsisters do exist in the new EU.
     
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  23. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Four; Jedi, Sith, Nightsisters, Dagoyan Masters

    Ventress and Krell also keep in the concept of a Dark Jedi.
     
    Ghost likes this.
  24. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I don't consider "dark jedi" their own tradition, they are members of the jedi tradition that have forsaken parts of the teachings
     
  25. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    I didn't say it was a tradition. I said they simply kept the concept of Jedi going over to the Dark Side, but not being Sith; as Dooku and Vader were. Dark Jedi.


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