main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Story wise: Do we really need a Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by ray243, Jun 9, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    It is necessary because Disney decided it should be done. Spinoffs aren't enough it seems
     
  2. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2003
    ANH was a complete story, but ESB didn't have to rework anything to continue it as Lucas set the seeds for further development within ANH itself.

    Luke was just starting to feel his potential in the force, Vader was the lone survivor of the Death Star, the Rebels have gained a serious foothold as a threat...

    Yes, ANH was a complete story, but it also was clear that it was just 1 part of a much larger story as well.
     
    Ryus and T-R- like this.
  3. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Star Wars should have gone the route that DC Comics has with animated adaptions of much of its work. In this case it could have also been live action as well. There was no reason that much of the EU couldn't have remained canon. Disney just wants to monopolize the franchise for itself as the new owner. Totally greedy corporation.

    We don't need to see Luke, Han, and Leia three decades after the Battle of Endor when it could be filled in sooner.
     
  4. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I'll take a live-action sequel to ROTJ over an animated adaptation of Dark Empire any day of the week.

    The story which will obliterate the EU comes straight from Lucas, not some suit at Disney.
     
  5. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I think that's what's exciting. If this story comes from George, we'll still hopefully get his vision, only executed by the rest of a talented team.
     
    Artoo-Dion likes this.
  6. mratm23

    mratm23 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 13, 2014
    What is the seventh film that Luke will have?
     
  7. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Episode 3.
     
    T-R- likes this.
  8. mratm23

    mratm23 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 13, 2014
    What, cause he's at the end barely? Just cause he's in it that doesn't mean the same thing. He wasn't a central character in that film.
     
    Pfluegermeister likes this.
  9. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    We saw him from birth to (I assume we will anyway) his death. So counts to me anyway
     
    T-R- likes this.
  10. Redimet

    Redimet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2014
    people seem to forget that Lucas has had treatments for a saga of 12 films for about 40 years now so yes we need a ST because that was the plan all along.
     
  11. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Exactly. I didn't say Luke was the focus of 7 films, only that he would be in 7 films, from birth until death/the end of the Saga.
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  12. Frank_TJ_Mackey

    Frank_TJ_Mackey Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2000
    I don't think that JJ, KK and Disney sees Episode 9 as the end of the saga.

    That's why they might be a little shift of focus from the Skywalkers to a new set of characters (that might include a Skywalker or a Solo).
     
  13. TX-20

    TX-20 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Upon seeing the changes to the Rise and Fall and Rise of Anakin Skywalker Saga:

    George Lucas: "This is not my vision"
    Bob Iger: "Too bad"
    GL logs onto the boards here
    GLFan1138: "This ain't Real Star Wars! Bring Back my, er, I mean, George Lucas and his Original Vision!"
     
  14. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I'd place money on the story coming straight from Lucas. Not only does it feel like one of his stories, Rebels had to have been in development while Arndt was still adapting Lucas' outline.
     
    Ryus, T-R- and Satipo like this.
  15. KINGKONG83

    KINGKONG83 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2004
    because im dead tired of people taking joy in taunting the PT fans ,I grew up on the OT,I really love them,I realize the prequels may not be the best movies but the OT wasn't exactly the pinnacle of high brow drama either..point is ,when someone confesses their love for the PT on this board theres a bunch of 1970's guys waiting around like sharks jumping that poor bastard,telling him how dumb he is and how the new star wars will be exactly like the OT etc..cause it wont..theres a huge possibility it may suck..bad.
    dont worry before to long you will have a new host of movies to love-hate(mostly hate) and nitpick on as DIS;xnys beats the cash cow within an inch of its life,im a shareholder so ill be taking your money and smiling,like so :D

    also your taking out lucas hard on for changing his movies on PT fans..not cool
     
    ForgottennJedi1986 likes this.
  16. Palpatine's P.A.

    Palpatine's P.A. Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2014
    ROTJ ties up a lot of things very nicely but there are definitely questions to be answered. The Rebels have won a pretty big battle, but have they won the war and where do they go from there? Does the Republic return and how? Do the Jedi return and how? Does Luke find a wife and have children? Do Han and Leia? How does the Legacy of Darth Vader affect all these characters?

    I'm really looking forward to finding out. So while we might not NEED a Sequel Trilogy, a lot of people WANT one.
     
  17. Luminous Beings Are We

    Luminous Beings Are We Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The Original Trilogy gave me the impression that it could just go on and on, like a daytime soap with endless episodes that mostly followed the same families but regularly introduced new characters to focus on and periodic dramatic twists. The Prequel Trilogy REALLY placed the emphasis on Darth Vader being the end-all, be-all for the six-movie saga. That was Lucas' vision.

    I'd like to see Disney return things to my originally impression. Episode VI certainly left off at a pivotal place for our heroes in the galaxy. I'd like to one day see the consequences of that ending affect "Episode XV" or something.

    We certainly don't need them, but we're all excited to get more Star Wars! :D
     
    TKT, EviL_eLF and Ryus like this.
  18. Jedi Comedian

    Jedi Comedian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2012
    The fact that this has devolved into another "OT v PT" flame war saddens me, as I feel it detracts from what is an interesting and worthy Sequel Trilogy debate.

    So I'm going to try and put another spin on it.

    First, my background: I grew up an OT fan. When I got into Star Wars, there was no PT. In my heart, I will always be an OT fan. Luke is my all-time favourite Star Wars character, and I don't think that will change any time soon.

    Now, even if we discard the prequels entirely and just look at the OT, is there a need for more story? I would say no.

    A New Hope, I would argue, is one of the few films out there that needs a sequel - certainly one of a very small number not already based on an existing property. Sure the Death Star is destroyed, but no case is ever made that the Death Star represents the entirety of the Empire. Tarkin is obviously important, but we already know that there's an Emperor elsewhere. Darth Vader, the most memorable and threatening villain of the film, clearly escaped unharmed, evading all retribution for his crimes - both large scale (his complicity in Alderaan's destruction) and personal (the murders of Anakin and Obi-Wan). And most importantly, our hero, Luke, is only just beginning his journey. He's clearly destined to be a great Jedi Knight, and more generally a valuable leader for the Alliance, and yet we leave him with only the most basic grasp of the Force and as a new recruit to the Rebels (albeit one with an impressive kill list to his name).

    Now compare that to Return of the Jedi. Every major named villain is dead - Vader, Palpatine, Jabba, Boba, heck, even Admiral Piett. The bigger, badder Death Star has been destroyed, but more than that, a sizeable chunk of both the Imperial navy and army are defeated in battle. The Rebels aren't just handing out medals to a few heroes, they're partying their asses off. The implication is clear - the war with the Empire may not be totally over, but it's all downhill from here.

    (Obviously, the Special Edition scenes of celebrations on other planets only compound this view.)

    Most importantly though, Luke Skywalker's character arc has been bought to its conclusion. The young man who started out lusting for adventure and vengeance for a father he never knew has matured into a noble hero who realises that embracing love and peace is the key to victory, not just being an emotionless warrior solving all his problems with force (pun intended). He has won freedom for the galaxy, resolved his issues with his father, reunited with his sister, forged true friendships, and now has a fulfilling life rebuilding the galaxy to look forward to. Seeing him with his companions, being gazed on with admiration by the ghosts of his mentors, is the very definition of closure.

    Is there more to see? Of course. There's always more to see. But by that definition, every film needs a sequel, unless it ends with the total destruction of the universe (and even that doesn't stop them sometimes). Rebuilding the Republic, starting a new Jedi Order, dealing with the remnants of the Empire ... these all have the potential to be interesting, but they're not on the same scale as the OT. If the stakes aren't raised, if our heroes aren't challenged further, then the dramatic momentum is lost.

    (I had no problem with seeing it in other media, like novels, comics, video games etc - the switch to another format meant that the drop in scale wasn't jarring. Plus, the Expanded Universe is at its best when acknowledging that its events aren't as galaxy-shattering as the Saga; it's at its worst when it does unimaginative rehashes of the movies.)

    The key thing for me is that the ST functions as a cohesive part of the Star Wars meta-narrative. I'm not really interested in seeing some random new dark sider pop up and it take three films for Luke's new Jedi students to beat him/her. What I'm interested in is further exploration and interpretation of the themes that have, IMO anyway, given Star Wars such lasting appeal. I really, really want them to pull it off. But I'm not going to start throwing money at anything with the Star Wars brand on it just because they put more celluloid in cinemas.
     
  19. Darth_Corvus

    Darth_Corvus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Do we need an ST? Sure we do. The Rebels need to repair the damage of the Emperor, Luke needs to pass on what he had learned, Lando must pay for ruining the Falcon, there is a lot that must be told. Even more stuff that could be told. The setting is a huge galaxy and Anakin Skywalker was just one person.
     
  20. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Good post. I am an OT fan, too. I was 7 when I saw Star Wars (ANH) in the theater in 1977. I used to be critical of the PT and even parts of the OT. I've actually come to terms with both and look forward to the sequels. My question for you is how can the OT and the PT, taken together, provide story material for the sequels? Luke's character was quite young when we left him in ROTJ. I think this gives ample opportunity for Luke's arc to continue. Transfiguration and Apotheosis, perhaps? Certainly passing on what he has learned to the next generation of Jedi/Skywalker. Also, complete unification of the Skywalker family. When we last left Anakin and Padme he became Darth Vader and she died. They are separated in death. I wonder if their reunification might play out as a theme in the end. I'm thinking of the Japoor necklace and the fact that she still loves him, 'there is good in him'. There may be more explanation for Anakin's behavior we're not privy to now. As you know I think a Plagueis type character could up the stakes. One more responsible for events in the saga unknown to us. A return to a mystical and mysterious Sith Lord characterized by Palpatine in the OT. A meta-narrative might include separation and reunification for the New Republic, Jedi Order, the Skywalker family and the Force itself. Physical and spiritual reunification of the GFFA. I know you're not a fan of some of this, but since you hadn't mentioned the PT I thought I'd ask.[face_peace]
     
  21. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    I'm really thinking I would much rather have a television series depicting the events after Return of the Jedi rather than a new trilogy of films that limits the story. The idea of a new series of live action films seems out of date now to me and would do less to tell the story of the galaxy in six hours than what television is capable of over months and years.
     
  22. Jedi Comedian

    Jedi Comedian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Good question. If I were in charge of coming up with the story to the ST (and thank the Force I'm not :p), I would want to go back to the fundamental themes of the Saga and explore new aspects of them, while at the same time follow their natural evolution from what we've already seen.

    (This is a very long-winded post, so I've spoliered it for politeness sake.)
    If we follow the prequels to the originals, we have this meta-narrative of the great Republic being corrupted from within and being transformed into the tyrannical Empire, which in turn is then overthrown by the courage and determination of the Rebels. So many times in history we see the people rise up and overthrow the government, only to become the same kind of authoritarian regime they were fighting against. I think it would be interesting to see the New Republic, and especially our heroes, come to realise that they are the Empire now.

    At the same time, Star Wars is a classic story of how the small can overcome the mighty. It permeates all the great imagery of the OT - R2-D2 holding the crucial secret plans, Luke's proton torpedo destroying the Death Star, snowspeeders taking down AT-ATs, Yoda lifting the X-wing out of the swamp, the relatively short Mark Hamill against the imposing Darth Vader, Ewoks battling stormtroopers. Heck, the very first shot we see of any action in a Star Wars film is Leia's tiny ship being chased by the massive Star Destroyer. The prequels gave us (intentionally or unintentionally) a dark twist on this, with two Sith bringing down the vast Republic and the Jedi Order.

    With this in mind, who are the new underdogs, the people with an axe to grind against the New Republic? I really like the idea of an Outer Rim army - perhaps one that explicitly refers to itself as a Sith Army - formed of all the people on the fringe who believed in the Rebel dream but now think things are just as bad as they were under the Empire. To further add to the irony, what if they were born from local resistance groups the Alliance funded to help fight the Empire, much like how some commentators allege that America's financial support of the Afghan mujahideen against the Soviets allowed al-Qaida to come to prominence?

    (The Legacy of the Force novel series had, I felt, a great premise for its war - tension in the new government between the former Rebels who had fought to reform the central government and the former Rebels who had fought for greater freedom. Sadly, that aspect was forgotten fairly quickly and the whole thing became a PT-rehash.)

    I think there needs to be a charismatic figure at the centre of this enemy movement, whatever it ends up being. One idea I've heard floated around the boards that's grown on me is the idea of the other side's Luke Skywalker. One guy (or gal) who inspires everyone on their side with their heroics and humble origins, making them believe that they can defeat their superior opponent. But that character also needs echoes of Palpatine, to show that he wasn't unique, and that there will always be evil in the galaxy. Maybe that could be the twist - this antagonist invokes Palpatine's name and authority, making it look like he's returned, only to turn out that really he has nothing to do with it all. Well, maybe not nothing; perhaps he could have been the inspiration, and that's his legacy.

    Ultimately, the driving theme would be "breaking the cycle". How do you stop a galactic authority from becoming corrupted? How do you stop tensions from spilling over into armed conflict? And with the Force, can you ever stop people from succumbing to the lure of the dark side?

    As for the personal conflict ...

    Luke's story can continue, but like I said in my last post, I struggle to see how his current arc can continue. A character's story can finish at any age.

    Passing on what he learned? Meh. That's a job, not an emotional journey. It needs more

    Apotheosis? Maybe, if the focus was on everyone else seeing Luke as a god, and what that drives them to do.

    I think the ST should look at Luke's dual nature (this is totally borrowed from another poster on the boards, and I apologise for forgetting who). Luke Skywalker, by the end of RotJ, has embraced the power of peace, love and forgiveness, the purest form of the light side. And yet, at the same time, he's a soldier, a fighter, a man who has killed countless enemy soldiers. Now he's (presumably) a Jedi Master, probably unmatched in his power in the Force. He's the man to train a new generation of Jedi warriors for the New Republic, and yet he doesn't want to be a living weapon of war, or be responsible for creating them. So now Luke's faced with the dilemma of what action to take when open war is upon the galaxy again. Push for peace and reconciliation? Looks pretty dodgy if you'll only do that for your own dad, but what if there's no room to negotiate? Fight? Who's to say which side is right - the old Jedi thought they were right serving Palpatine.

    And not only that, he has students now. I see Luke as more of a hippy than the PT Jedi, giving his pupils a longer leash. But that lenience means they've become reckless, somewhat out of control. More susceptible to the aggressive actions, and thus the dark side. How responsible is he for them? What if they're willing to be the warriors he won't? (Yes, there are some parallels with the New Jedi Order series.) Basically, I don't want Luke's order to suddenly be perfect because in a few decades a farmboy has fixed what a thousand generations of Jedi Masters couldn't.

    Ultimately, Luke's story should be continued in the next generation, as befits a family saga. The two trilogies so far show us a father and son going down a similar path but making different decisions. Luke had the straight hero's journey - obscurity, to purpose, to gain, to humility, to understanding, to triumph. Anakin's journey is the deconstruction of that - he's built up to be the ultimate hero, and yet that shared belief just creates a path that forges him into a terrible monster (which in turn adds depth to Luke - Obi-Wan and Yoda are so focused on making him into their idea of the Chosen One, they don't realise what actually makes Luke different, and thus better, than Anakin). So the ST hero should be the reconstruction, an acknowledgement that there isn't just one person, hand-picked by destiny, who can save the galaxy, but that doesn't mean that that one person can't make a difference. Maybe our Skywalker/Solo tries going down the conventional "lightsabres and mind tricks till you kill a Sith" path, only to realise they have another talent that helps them support other, better qualified heroes.

    (It would be great to reverse the rags-to-riches element of the PT and OT. Our main character is born into this legendary dynasty, and thus has to cope with not living up to the expectations of everyone around them. Or not wanting to live up those expectations.)

    Hmm. Not so sure of this myself. As far as I see it, Anakin and Padme's story was finished in the prequels. Their legacy lives on in Vader, Luke and Leia.

    I mean, people rag on the Anakin/Padmé romance and say "it's so stupid, they're supposed to be in love and yet the whole relationship is abusive and &$%*ed up". I think, if you embrace that, the whole thing is brilliant! :p Anakin and Padmé are two flawed, messed up people (Anakin more than Padmé, admittedly). He's looking for a substitute mother and believes he has a god-given right to control everything around him; she's been in public office for so long she's isolated from everyone around her, and sees Anakin as someone to fix. They only actually get together when they're facing imminent death, and even after that the Clone Wars keep them apart a lot of the time. Their relationship was doomed from the start, and it's redemption comes from the birth of Luke and Leia.

    Besides, I don't think announcing the return of Hayden and Natalie will be met with exuberant rejoicing from all segments of the fandom. ;)

    As I've mentioned before, much as I enjoyed the Plagueis novel, it seems too cliché to me to say, "OK, so, we knew that Palpatine was in the shadows the whole time, pulling everyone's strings, but really it was Plagueis behind him, manipulating Palpy the whole time". We knew in ANH that there was "the Emperor", even if we didn't see him, and then Palpatine was in every other film. Plagueis was only mentioned once in the films, and in the new canon, we have no confirmation of when he lived, or whether he was even real.

    Plus, it took two whole films and a lot of machinations for Palpatine to get his army. Plagueis showing up with his own forces might seem too convenient.

    See, separation and reunification to me implies a new story, a new conflict, rather than the continuation and development of what we already have. Especially since three of those things (the New Republic, Jedi Order and even the Skywalker family) didn't really exist at the end of RotJ. The "breaking the cycle" theme and the New Republic being on the other side of the Rebels v Empire conflict is the best I've been able to come up with that would carry on the narrative from both the OT and the Saga as a whole.

    I bet you wished you hadn't asked now. ;)
    TL,DR version: my thoughts are that our heroes should be on the other side of a rebellion against the empire, Luke struggles to be a martial pacifist, the new hero isn't cut out for the Hero's Journey, Anidala is dead, Plagueis should stay dead, and if the galaxy ain't broke, breaking it and fixing it again isn't really the natural evolution of the existing story.
     
  23. Palpatine's P.A.

    Palpatine's P.A. Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Are the crowds at the end of ROTJ celebrating the fall of the Empire or just the death of the Emperor? The answer to that is quite important to how necessary the Sequels are from the point of view of tying up the loose ends.
     
  24. GoJohnnyGo

    GoJohnnyGo Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2012
    NO, we do not need a sequel Trilogy. We need food, water and shelter.

    We want a sequel Trilogy, and I do not agree that the 1st 6 were about Darth Vader. Episode 4 through 6 were Luke and 7, 8 and 9 will be someone else...

    We also did not need 6 Rocky Movies, but I still tune in every time they are on TBS as lots do, but probably don't care to admit!
     
  25. Death_Jar_Jar

    Death_Jar_Jar Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2014
    There doesn't need to be more Star Wars movies, but peace doesn't last forever so there are obviously more stories that can be told.

    The Last Airbender was a great television show, and it felt very complete for the most part, but I enjoy The Legend of Korra (the sequel to The Last Airbender) because it shows that things don't stay perfect and that there can be new kinds of conflicts. Hopefully the ST of Star Wars is as successful.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.