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Perhaps there's a reason that Nadd went to Onderon in the first place.

I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that the TOTJ Companion says that Warb Null was possessed by his armor and that the Sith species is left-handed and draws sustenence from the dark side. I personally hated those two parts of the companion.

Ostrander said that he intended to explain that later on in DOTJ. I wonder what his explanation would have been.

One thing I'll always hate about Fall of the Sith Empire is that Ludo Kressh was killed off. The Dark Lord that marked Kun and Ulic was clearly supposed to be the same Dark Lord that exiled Naga Sadow.

 

How do you all feel about the theory that Vitiate had a vision of the Galactic Empire and based his Sith Empire on that? I much prefer it over Palpatine basing the Galactic Empire on Vitiate's Sith Empire. I wish that Palpatine wrote in Book of Sith, "That fool Vitiate. He thought his visions were of his empire."

 

Indeed. I thought it was more of a strong implication backed up by the author, but I could be misremembering. It did go somewhat against the idea the spirit had protected the book for over a thousand years (although one supposes over 20,000 is over 1,000 as well), but I personally loved it, as it supports my beloved "ancient powerful True Sith Empire" theory.

But what was curious to me was what the ancient ancient Sith were doing on Onderon in the first place. The Sith armory and its spellbook is just an example of a pre-Nadd Sith presence on Onderon that, as darklordoftech says, likely drew Nadd to the world. The question is what came from the Old Sith Empire, and which came from its even more ancient precursor.

What I really found interesting with the Hammer implication is that, as per TOTJ Companion, the spirit wanted to restore the glory of the Sith Empire. But I should hardly think this spirit, isolated in a spellbook in an armory in the wilderness of Onderon, would know anything about the Old Sith Empire, and their fall from glory. To me that hints further at an Infinite Sith Empire that fell by the time of Adas and the spirit protector and thus needed restoring. Speaking of Adas, Erdelac even thought the two might have been one and the same. Makes one wish Adas' holocron came to Onderon via different means than Nadd.

 

Yup. Force-based hyperdrives would explain this spattering of Sith colony worlds. One supposes the Sith could have taken up the reins of the Infinite Empire after the Rakata's failed invasion, but personally the Killik Sith Lord and the Sith presence on Alsakan and Sarafur mean I prefer the Sith having been at the head of the Infinite Empire all along.

I'm keen on linking the Third Great Schism and the Dark Jedi who conquered the Kathol to these Infinite Sith. These Sith may well have been engaged in a vast war with the Celestials, with the Killik Joiner Sith being a deliberate move to turn the Celestials' workforce against them and gain a vast army, which resulted in the Celestials emptying Alderaan, booting the Killiks into the Unknown Regions and separating them from the Killik Sith's influence.

Given the likely Celestial origins for the Cosmic Turbine and the Kathol launch gates, and the similarity between the Vultar Cataclysm and the Rift Disaster, both of these would make sense as Infinite Sith plots. In fact, given my preference for the pre-retcon timeline of the Old Sith Empire being 25,000 years old, I'm quite content to assume the 'Infinite Sith' lineage was alive and kicking in the Old Sith Empire, perhaps through the shadow rule of the immortal Darth cult, or some such. This would allow for one Sith Empire from <30,000 BBY through ~3,600 BBY, with various reformations and changes in cultural and racial composition (e.g. hybridisation, Sith'ari being replaced with Jen'ari, and Jen'ari then becoming many with a new title of Sith Emperor). Although then again, the degree to which the Sith changed in terms of becoming synonymous with non-True Sith is up for debate, given that the TOTJ Companion has the word Sith applying to more than just the species long before the Dark Jedi show up. This reinterpretation could also firmly separate the New Sith from the old and the ancient; it's a very different lineage, running from Ruin through Bane to Palpatine and finally ending with Caedus.

As for Nadd, given that Sadow's spirit is still around nearly a millennium later, it's obvious the interpretation that he destroyed Sadow's spirit is incorrect. That leaves the earlier two - that he killed Sadow who had been in hibernation (thus leaving a spirit), or the first story in which Nadd was not a Dark Lord but rather a failed apprentice to the reigning Dark Lord who fled to Onderon. Now that I think about it, the original TOTJ/Companion that used this version of events never specified Sadow as this Dark Lord (because originally Sadow was not a Dark Lord either), so I actually like to think that Nadd was an apprentice of the reigning Dark Lord - Vitiate - first. Nadd's attempt to destroy Sadow would be a Vitiate plot that would be finished off by Ovair, and his conquest of Onderon might have been at Vitiate's behest. Or, keeping to the original story more closely and erring less on the 'Vitiate was responsible for every Sith threat' side, Nadd was not sufficiently powerful to overthrow Vitiate and thus fled to Onderon, stopping on Yavin IV and presumably Ashas Ree where he found Sadow in hibernation and Adas' holocron, respectively.

 

George Strayton and KJA clearly weren't communicating well if they were communicating at all. TOTJ companion makes it sound like a dark jedi became a Dark Lord of the Sith and then the First Great Schism happened and that all of this happened in 5000 BBY. Also, Golden Age of the Sith calls the Sith species primitive while Companion makes them sound badass.

 

I know that. I was referring to the companion's claim that a single dark jedi became a Dark Lord of the Sith before the First Great Schism.

 

Yep. Tulak Hord's features are hidden beneath his armour, but most interesting of all is Marka Ragnos. Without the ghostly blue aura of his previous appearances, we can see that his skin is a very dark grey, perhaps black. Not too faithful a portrayal to Jedi Academy or the 'prequel TOTJ,' as nothing in the way of a flesh beard, but closer to 'his' appearance before Ulic and Exar. Makes me think Ragnos, like Adas, had a charcoal skin colour.

Looks like TOR has further plans for Sadow.

 

Yeah, I doubt too much thought was put into it but it does reconcile the two looks to some degree. Any flesh beard we see could be interpreted as a decorative false beard, which is the Pharaonic tradition they're modelled after anyway.

As for the spirits appearing on Yavin... Freedon Nadd's spirit showed great mobility, it's implied Exar Kun would have been similar if it weren't for the Jedi erecting a wall of light, and Ragnos manifested on Empress Teta (if we accept the retcon), albeit through his amulets.

The way I see it, less powerful (or perhaps simply more ancient - passage of time seems to have an effect) Sith shades are only marginally self-aware 'echoes' or imprints of their former selves, with more powerful spirits being true ghosts with greater ability to affect the physical (albeit not necessarily without confusion and some 'mental' degradation like Pall), haunting their tombs. The most powerful, and/or those specifically summoned/resurrected through necromancy like Nadd through Ommin's amulet, may well be tied to some location or thing, but it's just an anchor to the physical world like a lich's phylactery and they can appear in any location where the lines between the physical and the Force blur, e.g. Mortis, or dark side nexuses like Korriban and Yavin.

 

I hope so. The timeline videos' implication that the TOTJ Sith spirits are plotting against Vitiate is the best thing to come out of TOR imo. I wonder if Freedon Nadd knew about Vitiate.

 

It's possible to know about someone without being someone's apprentice. I agree that Nadd should be purely Sadow's apprentice.

 

Of interest is that the "marked spirit" is described as "Vitiate's master". If the "marked spirit" is Ragnos, does "master" simply mean "boss" or does it mean that Vitiate was Ragnos's apprentice? If Vitiate was Ragnos's apprentice, was Ragnos capable of Vitiate's rituals? #theancientswerethestrongest #kreiawasright

Are there any other known charcoal-skinned Sith? Might charcoal skin indicate power?

 

I wonder who Ragnos's Shadow Hand was. Kressh? Vitiate? Sadow?