ST The New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

Have you noticed we didn't hear anything about space battles?

 

Interesting-this rumor has now been posted on other non-SW-specific movie forums where people have completely shrugged it off as being complete BS and that there was no way Abrams would do that and moved on quickly.

I'm guessing the same thing will happen once it spreads next week. Nobody's going to believe it and just shrug it off as BS.

How would you all say this compares to the hideous Mandarin twist in IM3?

 

Worse, because while the Mandarin is Iron Man's greatest villain, he is well down on the list of greatest Marvel villains...maybe he's top ten, maybe not, but Luke Skywalker is one of the top five greatest heroes in the history of fantasy fiction, IMO.

Although people usually rank Han higher than Luke on the list of greatest SW characters, and obviously JJ is one of them.

And I could see them killing Luke off screen between VII and VIII. In fact, I now expect it.

 

First off, can we please stop saying thinks like "Maybe Hamill kept forgetting his lines" or "Maybe it's because Hamill wasn't doing the scene right," etc.? If Luke is in only 30 seconds of the movie, you can rest assured it is not because of anything Hamill did, and suggesting as much is rude and offensive, both to Hamill himself and to his fans.

True, but different isn't always bad. Seeing the rookies doing it for once could be interesting. And even though Luke couldn't do anything with the Force until Ben taught him, that's probably because Luke had never heard of the Force. What is to say that perhaps Rey has not already heard of the Force? Perhaps she has, but has had no training, and can only use it sparsely, and she is the one who introduces Finn to it. And using that as an example is moot at this point anyways, because we saw Ezra using the Force (senses) before he met Kanan, albeit instinctively. So it's very likely that Rey or Finn, or both, could do the same thing.

 

I hope I will like them. That remains to be seen. That's really beside the point though. That has nothing to do with what I see as the diminishing of the importance of the character of Luke Skywalker. If the film makers mess that up, I don't care what happens with the new characters. I will feel that Luke has been swept aside and degraded to make room for new characters. And that shouldn't happen. There should be a way to introduce new characters without disrespecting the older ones. Yet in this film, apparently the new characters are so great that they have no need of guidance or training in the force,because they seem to successfully use light sabers and face dark Jedi and Sith without a single lesson, which means that the only Jedi in the galaxy has no role, so he is left almost completely out of the film. Even worse, it looks like this Jedi has been defeated and captured by someone and is rescued by a young girl. Is that a respectful way to handle an iconic character Like Luke Skywalker ?

All of the other films had at least one older Jedi who served as a teacher or mentor to the young character. Yet in this film, the only Jedi is being left out completely and given no role at all. Not only that, but this Jedi is an iconic character, one that many people, myself included, were looking forward to seeing again, but in a new capacity as the wise, experienced Jedi passing his knowledge to the next generation. I wasn't expecting Luke to be a main character, but I did expect him to play an important role, and to certainly be present for more than 30 seconds at the end of the film. Now, he gets to do nothing, and he has apparently done nothing for the last 30 years. He has no Jedi order; no family; no role. Can anyone understand why this would make me upset? Many people here just seem to want out with the old and in with the new. I'm not ready to simply throw old beloved characters away. I want them to be handled with respect and given a worthwhile send off ; worthwhile roles, not just tossed aside like garbage.

If there is no role for Luke in this film, there won't be one for him in the next either. It will likely take place 3to5 years after this film, and Rey, Finn, or both will probably already be trained. They could easily kill off Luke's character between films.

 

In my case, I was making a joke about the shortness of the line and the improbability of Hamill not remembering it.

I think Hamill's a very good actor. And though his role was pretty small in Kingsman, he played a very convincing frightened professor!

 

Beg to differ here. AOTC took place ten years after TPM, and Obi-Wan was still Anakin's Master! The mentor role is essential. I think it's unfair to say with absolute certainty that if he doesn't have a role here, he won't in the next. I disagree very heartily, and I personally expect him to have a significantly bigger role in VIII. And how do you know it's "likely" to take place 3 to 5 years later? It could be as few as 2, considering that that's the length of time between the movie's releases. No way will the younger characters age 5 years in 2 real-life years. It's even possible that they could say VIII takes place only a year later. All I'm saying is, don't be doom-and-gloom about this right off the bat; Luke could very well have a huge role in VIII. And I am still not 100% convinced that he actually only has a 30-second role in TFA, either!

 

Luke's not being tossed aside like garbage. He's being treated with so much reverence, in fact, that he is being introduced on top of a mountain in the middle of an island in the middle of the ocean. This is essentially the "Zen Master" treatment. The Yoda treatment, if you will. To me, this says "Luke Skywalker is special." So special that he doesn't have time to muck around with the kids like Han Solo does. He's on another, higher plane.

If you're not able to see this, and to see that "presence" does not equal "minutes of screen time doing...something" then I fear you will be disappointed no matter what.

 

How can you say he is being respected when he is completely left out of the film? Even worse, apparently the reason he is missing is because he has been defeated and captured by someone and is rescued by a teenage girl! HOW is that respecting the character and showing him as a Jedi of honor and importance? Plus, he has been a COMPLETE failure for over 30 years. He has trained no one and done NOTHING. He has simply been a captive for who knows how many years? I don't care how beautiful the mountain scenery is, the fact that Luke has been reduced to a cameo in this new film and has accomplished absolutely NOTHING not only in the film itself, but in his entire life since ROTJ, shows a deep disrespect for the character and leaves him with no legacy. You can try to spin this any way that you want, but I see this as a terrible way to treat the character. I would have preferred a scenario where Luke dies early in the film, but has left behind a small Jedi order to be his legacy. If this rumor is true, I see it as a travesty.

 

I mean the entire driving force of the film are the heroes trying to find him. Luke is pretty much the goal of the whole film. He is the wizard in the Wizard of Oz.

 

I'm exiting this conversation, Child of Winds, as you seem to have no interest in an actual dialogue.

Exactly. The film is essentially ABOUT Luke Skywalker. Does it get more reverential than that?

The Wizard of Oz has been mentioned. Another equivalent would be Sauron. You basically never see Sauron, but he permeates all three Lord of the Rings books/ films, because the plot is essentially about bringing him down. Luke is the good version of Sauron in this film.

 

I hope not I read the Original Wizard of Oz, not the sanitized movie and my god the Wizard is more then just fraud, he is child abusing, narcissistic ahole, throne stealing peice of crap.

I think that is a valid point. Luke has got 0 done. Not one Jedi. Been in Exile either self imposed or captured for years. I mean sheesh...that is kinda bad.

 

We do not know that. It's random speculation. We don't know why he's on this island; somebody said "Oh, maybe he was captured and left there." That may not be the case at all. We just don't know. For all we know, he could have secretly created a Jedi Order inside that island, which won't be revealed until later on.

And again, we don't know that. Maybe he doesn't need rescue. And if he does, to me, the age of the person who rescues him doesn't matter to me. So what if she's a teenager? Would it make any difference if she were five years older? Her age doesn't matter, her role does. What if it turns out she's Luke's daughter? Would that make a difference for you? And if it does, then should it, really? Either way, all indications are that she is this generation's "Luke." So it's hardly snubbing him to be rescued by her, even if he is stranded.

I used to agree, but I have come to believe that his "success" or "failure" doesn't hinge on whether or not he's trained a whole order of Jedi. For my part, I would love to see him teach a line of successors and be the leader of a new Order. But even if that doesn't happen, that doesn't mean Luke is a failure. And we have no idea what has happened between ROTJ and TFA. He could have done some great things in that time. Maybe he's only been stranded for a year. Maybe it's been less. Who knows? There has been no indication of what's been going on since ROTJ, or how or why he is on the island.

 

Maybe Luke is in a catatonic/unconscious state during most of the movie and the main mission is to revive him or bring him back which is essential to saving the galaxy. And thus the Force awakens at the end of the movie. Serkis says his teaser line to Ren near the end of the movie.

Possible run down for those who don't read the other thread:

Ren escapes after the entire fleet, led by Poe, comes to save Finn and Rey. Ren is injured during the castle explosions, not by Rey or Finn.

Medical bay scenes take place. Rey and Chewie board the Falcon.

Ren speaks to his master who expresses that he has done well but needs more learning before becoming a true Sith. His master (Serkis) says at some point "there has been an awakening; have you felt it". Ren responds something to the effect of "yes my master and soon we will have the power to destroy our adversaries once and for all". He pulls out the artifact he was seeking in the beginning of the movie-Vader's helmet.

Swipe to Skellig Michael. The last scene takes place. It become apparent that the title and Serkis' statement refers to Luke who has been saved by the events in the movie and the sacrifice by Han. Han's sacrifice is symbolic of Luke's sacrifice to save Han in ROTJ-just with more bitter results sadly. (now I owe you one buddy )

How else can Luke make it up to his old buddy/bro-in-law who gave his entire life? See to it that his daughter is safe and can carry on his legacy.

 

Hmmm. The assault on Kylo's evil castle by Han could simply be to acquire Luke's coordinates and/or the means to reviving him...Interesting. Never thought to take "The Force Awakens" so literally!

 

What If Rey hands him the saber then the camera pans over his shoulder to see some jedi in training? (roll credits)

 

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...force-awakens-star-wars-courts-japanese-fans/

Japanese trailer for anyone that's interested. Finn isn't even in it.

 

See, I think it never even occurred to JJ that not having Luke in the movie at all would upset anyone. He's clearly such a fan of Han and so enamored with Harrison Ford that he didn't care and didn't think anyone else would either.

I hope this years Celebration is a near-riot over this.

 

It's not that I don't have an interest in dialogue. It just seems that you want me to agree with you and to see things your way. I'm trying to explain that I'm seeing this cameo of Luke far differently. Just having Luke waiting on a mountaintop isn't showing respect to the character. Having him do nothing in this film, and having him accomplish nothing for thirty years of his adult life is very disrespectful to the character, in my opinion. Just because they spend part of the film looking for Luke to return a lightsaber to him in between all of the group's adventures doesn't say to me that the film shows respect to the character. The fact that Luke is being portrayed as a failure for 30 years screams volumes more to me than the idea that the characters are searching for Luke, the fact that they choose to try to find him, says more about them than it does about Luke, actually.


@revanfan, if Luke has trained no one in over 30 years, if he has accomplished absolutely nothing, how can he be considered anything but a failure?

 

People are freaking out over another rumor. A rumor I might add that comes from a source who was adamant that Luke was crazy and borderline evil only to now backtrack and be adamant about a whole different rumor.

Even off of this rumor people are giving pointless speculation. The only reason why Luke would get killed off screen in this trilogy is if Mark dies. Here is a giant chill pill. Get a glass of water, take the pill, and go to bed.

 

Yeah, he is. He is in the stormtrooper shot. Not explicitly though. BB-8 isn't in it at all.

 

Wow they just completely wrote off Finn, BB8, (storm troopers dont count). Racist! I guess dont "serve their kind" in Japan.

 

I agree, we need to see a bunch of man children flipping over cars, lighting things on fire, and yelling to the point of tears over a children's movie.

Just make sure you guys tape the tear gas and getting shot with rubber bullets. Between the heart attacks, strokes due to low blood pressure, and nervous breakdowns: it should be a blood bath.

Well at least TFA is going to give some guaranteed entertainment one way or another....

 

SO what he is the only one with his face covered. The lightskinned characters though not so much. Anyone wanna claim this is not race related?