Any chance we can move on to the 21st century here? [Sure!]

I try to be a good and pleasant forum member, but there's one issue that has persistently stuck in my craw (and continues to do so) - and that's the no-slash rule.

With the advent of Ep. 7 and several more confirmed queer characters, I think it's high time we took a look at that rule to see if it still holds water. If we can't even keep up with the inclusivity of our series we're fans for, what good are we, really, as fans? The rule sends a pretty clear "straights only" message not just to fanfiction writers but to fans at large. Being told your very existence is taboo is a stark blow to be dealing out on a daily basis to our fellow fans who happen not to be straight.

If hands are tied because the owner of the servers has decreed this to be a rule, it may be time to look into a patreon or kickstarter in order to actually create an environment for all fans instead of just the straight ones.

At the very least, if the above is true, I think there needs to be substantially more noise made about the subject in order to potentially change minds.

I'm heartened to see questions of racism and sexism being addressed on the boards. Now it's time to follow through and make things accessible for our fellow queer fans, too. I mean, come on, it's 2015. It's high time that we started making a place for ALL fans, not just the straight ones, right?

 

From what I understand, this is a rule set by the site owner and Mod Squad has no say in the matter. Your proposal to do a Kickstarter or something along those lines would basically mean completely abandoning TF.N, and all the influence it's built up over the years, and trying to start from complete scratch somewhere else. And that's just not practical.

If you want the rule changed, you're better off addressing your complaint to the site owner, however, I'm not even sure who that is or how to contact him/her.

 

Is something like a petition on the forums the more practical solution?

It just seems excruciatingly dumb to sit around navel-gazing about making things better for female fans and fans that are non-white while still leaving anyone who's not straight out in the cold. (Not only that but actively telling them that they are so shocking that mentions of their existence are banned.)

 

I'm very interested in hearing everyone's thought about this. It's been discussed internally, as well.

 

I like it just fine. The rule I don't see as a denial of existence at all simply a personal choice. Slash doesn't need to be everywhere.

 

From what I understand, this is a rule set by the site owner and Mod Squad has no say in the matter
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according to jointheschwarz...obviously not.

 

I don't. Not the point.

 

I think it should be included, tbh. I agree that denying people to express their own sexuality through creative means is rather short-sighted and oppressive. I've talked to a few of the mods about it and heard that the site owner doesn't agree with it and that's why. But if the rules can be changed according to this, I think it should be. Like anakinfan stated, if people don't agree with it, they have the option of skipping over it.

 

Let's look at it from another perspective. Completely shelve the idea of "but I don't want to read slash." (I don't want to read heavily contrived heterosexual romances either, but those happen in spades, yeah?)

Think about what that rule says to the fans among us that happen to be not straight. "You're so unwelcome here that we have literally censored your existence. We don't even allow people to write about characters that represent you in canon, much less allow people to give you more representation at all. You are so hated and unwelcome that we don't want to acknowledge you exist."

OUCH, right? It's high time I think we need to all have a discussion about how unacceptable it is to treat fellow fans that way.

 

No, it's completely true. The rule comes from the owner and we have no say in the matter.

 

Which is why I'm in favor of something like a petition. At least making some noise to ask if it can be changed. People change their minds, it's a real possibility, especially if we can show people genuinely unhappy with enforcing the rule. (At least I've always gotten the impression that this is a rule moderators accept begrudgingly, and not really with open arms and full-on french kisses. I may be wrong. Who knows?)

 

Does the site owner actually post here ever? Just curious.

 

JoinTheSchwarz: How do people contact the site owner directly with their opinions? Because I get the feeling that if people want the rule to change, that might be the method most likely to be effective.

 

He has a public email address listed at his RebelScum website, I think.

 

A formal letter and petition might be a way to appease the site owner. If we address it as looking for equal representation in fanfiction, we might be able to get an audience. I, for one, want to see the rule overturned.

And if the rule is overturned, it doesn't necessarily mean that suddenly everything will be the dirtiest and most graphic slashy smut possible, Cushing's Admirer. We just want to be able to write a nice relationship between characters of the same sex. If you don't want to read that, then simply don't read them.

 

Or, in case of those who would not pair two het characters, write proper LGBTQ OCs.

 

While I'm 100% in favor of this proposal and have been disappointed with the site's anti-slash policy for years, this is really unnecessary. Progress isn't zero-sum and you don't have to tear down discussions of racism and sexism and call them navel-gazing to make a point about the importance of homophobia and homophobic policies on the boards.

Also I'd make the distinction that banning gay relationships in fan fiction is pretty distinct from discussions of direct sexism and racism experienced by members of the boards from their peers here. There is definitely homophobia on the boards to at least the same degree that we have these other problems, but the solution to that is to have the same discussions we've been having about sexism and create policies related to that, lifting the slash ban isn't going to solve the problem of queer fans "feeling left it in the cold." (Especially to the extent that slash fiction is often written by straight women exoticizing and exploiting queer sexuality.)

That said, we also can't solve homophobia on the boards with such a clearly wrong policy in place and I do hope it is lifted. Mod Squad has, in the past, made some really poor decisions about how to go about resolving problems with owner policies which were often vestiges of owners who no longer have any stake in TF.n. (See: several years of the WTF saga and the literal genie solution we ended up with for a while). I hope the current policy decision making will be resolved with an appropriate and diplomatic sensitivity and understanding of how much the current owner does or doesn't care about day to day policy minutiae about a minor section of his investment in TF.n.

 

That isn't the problem though

To begin with, the fact that "slash" in itself is considered different from a "normal" romance in a fanfic is absurd. I wish for a world where someone can just say "I have feelings for (insert person here)" and, regardless of that person's gender, nobody questions it. There shouldn't even be a thought of "holy crap, that person is gay?!" or whatever. As such, I don't think that's a thought that should even be considered when making rules about fanfiction pairings

Basically, this means that people who fall under the LGBTQ category are specifically singled out in the mind of whoever the hell came up with this asinine rule and given the middle finger. There's a complete lack of logic here

Bleh, I can't even think straight. It just pisses me off
(Edit: Uh.... don't misread that last part. I meant that as in "think clearly." No intended pun)

 

I apologise if I'm coming across as unduly harsh, but it just seems to me that one cannot champion feminism while still leaving out a good percentage of women (queer women, trans women, etc.). I'm happy those things are getting addressed - these are all conversations that need to happen in fandom, all types of fandom, especially when we live in a world where things like Gamergate can thrive - but the issue is incomplete unless we're talking about a space where all women, and all people of color, are welcome.

 

I agree 100%. I wasn't aware of the no slash rule, but it's bull. I'd definitely be down for a petition or mail campaign.

 

I personally could care less, the no-slash rule could be removed and it's not going to bother or affect me. The "if you don't like it don't click on it" idea is one I tend to follow though I may take part(and have taken part) in many political or religious debates.

But I am not the person you have to deal with. So, if a big petition goes out and the owner simply replies with "No", will you just accept it and move on or call him a bigot? Is there not a rule in the fan fic forums that only constructive critcism is tolerated and will that be enough if the no-slash rule is removed or must "if you don't like it don't click" become a mod enforced special rule? If the rule is removed will said fan fic be SW first or or are you more concerned with making sure homosexuality is the defining factor in the story which you can do elsewhere in droves?

These will be some of the questions you will have to deal with.

 

Um, yeah, sure, it would be nice to live in a utopia where no one sees homosexuality as different or lesser. But we don't. You can't just wish away homophobia by stating that it shouldn't even exist. When you're trying to create change, you have to acknowledge the constraints of the broken system you're in.

Precisely, I totally agree with you, which is why I think it's a problem to start this discussion off by denigrating those other discussions. They should all happen in concert with each other, not in opposition to each other. For the record, to the extent that I've followed discussions of sexism on the board, they have been intersectional and homophobia has been, at least laterally, addressed in some ways. It hasn't been the primary focus of the discussion, but none of the feminists on the board fighting to end sexism that I've seen have done so at the expense of gay posters. Again, though, the way to talk about a space where LGBT fans feel welcome is not to lift the slash ban and end the discussion there, and, in fact, doing just that could end up being unproductive, the same way that repealing DOMA and legalizing gay marriage nationwide isn't going to end structural discrimination of gay people in the US.