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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series Order 66 series

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by RATHERBEPLAYINDS, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    They are genetically modified and artifically created beings yes. But it's not chips, it's genes. So their bodies are pretty much identical to whatever species the original Fett template was in terms of internal organs and physiology, but they are mentally different. They are obedient beings who respond to their flash training, mental training and combat training over the 10 year period. Of course, a clone will also be affected by nurture. By the time of delivery to the Republic, they are bred to follow orders of their superiors.

    The individual creativity aspect is merely for them to learn, adapt to the battle and to think how best to achieve the objective/order given to them. They are not trained or bred to question orders. If you tell the clones to charge, they might be scared, but they won't disobey. They will run forward blaster blazing.

    Order 66 is a legal order. Terrible yes, unethical and lacking due process, yes. But legal. It is authenticated by clone commanders as having come directly from the Office of the Chancellor. He declares the Jedi Generals as acting against the Republic and so orders their execution.

    The clones do not go into a trance. They don't even hesitate. Clearly, the troopers line up to kill Ki Ad Mundi, etc in the scenes we see.

    I don't really get the Tup thing - why would him having brain damage, suddenly cause him to kill a Jedi? Is that a specific part of a brain that says to kill a specific person?? Makes no sense at all.

    The films take precedence and make much more sense. It is also brilliant. The Jedi are killed by their own troops. No one saw it coming. It was such a shock to see that. It's so evil, yet so clever by the Emperor/Palpatine there. The clones don't see anything wrong with it - it's a legal order and they know no better.

    Even if the Jedi just saved their life, they carry it out. It's not down to a chip, but their whole species - an altered version of the original template and their 10 year training programme which ingrains them with the ability to think creatively to fulfil their objectives, but to totally be loyal and obey their superiors.

    The whole point is that Palpatine is the highest authority. Had Palpatine been removed from office by the Jedi and the Order never given, the clones would not randomly kill the Jedi. They are not machines with a preprogrammed model running through their head of "kill the Jedi at this point in time".

    Order 66 or Protocol 66 is merely one of many contigency orders they were trained for and the Jedi were either aware of, or didn't think could ever be initiated by Palpatine.

    Lol exactly! The films should take precedence. No chip, just clones who are flash trained and bred to follow orders. These aren't like normal free willed beings. They know no other life. They obey all legal orders which Order 66 was (a legal order authenticated as coming from the CIC, the Supreme Chancellor, to execute their Jedi Generals because they were "acting against the interests of the Republic".
     
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  2. moonjump05

    moonjump05 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2013
    The Kaminoans are shady as ****. The first thing Dex tells Obi-wan is that they are excellent cloners and that they think with their pocketbook. They go ahead and create an enormous army for the Jedi without question, what do they think it is going to be used for? An army they create for ten years without a single follow up holocall.

    I trust them as far as my noodle arms can throw them.

    Plus, of course they will upsell. They are selling a product that they want Obi-wan to buy more of. Or be impressed and order something else. We know their methods are not perfect- see 99, Slick and Cut- so why should the obedience be any different? The Kaminoans are basically used car salesman in space.

    GL changes his mind all the time, ever hear of the special editions? Plus he could basically veto anything they were working on in TCW.

    Palps having a chip would be dumb. Because he wasn't grown in a vat, designed and trained to be a soldier. The clones were.

    I still don't get why anything you personally disagree with is 'for kids' or 'cheapening the movies/series'.

    And here you acknowledge the exception to your total obedience rule.

    But with Tup, who knows how the chip malfunctioned. It did malfunction though since no other clone either before, during or after Order 66 acted that way. Plus the tissue was all diseased looking compared to Fives.

    Edit:



    I am sure they did. Probably lots of blunt trauma/concussions/etc. They probably were scanned by the millions. But not only are the Kaminoans doing seemingly alot of the more severe medical care but to even have the chips show up on a scan was a very deeply invasive and dangerous procedure. With Tup, the first couple of scans didn't show anything. It wasn't until they did the deeper scan anything showed up.
     
  3. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Lol on special editions. But apparently the whole "chip" was Filoni's, not Lucas' original vision which he himself had shown us in the films. Those should take precedence imo and provide the cleverest and most thrilling explanation. The Order 66 scene is a powerful few minutes that hits the viewer.

    I agree on the Jedi being somewhat too accepting of this mysteriously discovered army! But I think the Kaminoans were simply businessman and not privy to the Sith's intent. They were merely providing a totally obedient army (for money of course) that would serve the Republic. This was key, the clones were not loyal to the Jedi per say. They merely followed their Jedi Generals, and in some cases developed friendships. But ultimately they served the Republic, whose highest authority was Palpatine. They didn't need further approval to execute their Jedi officers - his word alone was enough. I.e. there is nothing about a chip. It was an executive order and clones obey orders.

    In terms of the exception to clones behaving differently - that would only be clones designed to behave like that - i.e. commando's or certain ARC troopers like Rex. Tup was just a bog standard trooper wasn't he? So there would be no independent thought or creativity in that respect - he would be the same as regular clones - able to think how to best achieve their instructions, not think more - that was just the special selected few in an army of billions.

    Look at ROTS - kids still love that and it's not a cheap trick of trying to justify what is about to happen. It is plain wrong what Palpatine did. Though he justifies it to the Senate that the Jedi were plotting a coup. It is the Jedi who are betrayed. The clones followed orders, they were not in a trance because of a chip!
     
  4. Darth Wookiee

    Darth Wookiee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2013
    The new Kanan comic really went into this subject.
     
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  5. moonjump05

    moonjump05 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2013
    The order 66 scence is one of my favorites in RotS.

    But it literally shows us nothing except the clones killing Jedi. Nothing. There is nothing that TCW retcons or contradicts. There is nothing for the movies to take precedence over.

    You don't like the chips, okay, but there is no case to blame it as a different vision of the original films. (Mainly because most of the clone stuff is totally glossed over, not without reason) and there is certainly no case to absolve all blame from GL (especially since GL was Filoni's boss at the time)

    The Kaminoans covered up the existance of the chip on direct orders from Darth Tyranus.

    The Kaminoans wanted to euthanize Tup and drugged Fives to cover up the chip.

    They distinctly went against the interests of their supposed client, the Jedi, to help the Sith.

    Is Rex an ARC trooper? It has been asked before, but I haven't seen anything suggesting this is the case. He has a CT number and never gets ARC gear that other command clones don't also get.

    Fives number changed from CT to ARC, plus he started out as a standard trooper. He was never designed to to behave differently. But he questions orders.

    Edit:



    I saw some spoilers and am going to go this afternoon to get it. But so far all I see is that I might have to add one more trooper who can question orders.
     
  6. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    The Republic essentially had a mercenary army, but did not know it. Mercenaries fight for the money. Now, the clones themselves weren't fighting for money, and actually the films themselves don't really show us the clones' personalities at all. We just see them fighting and taking orders. We don't have them talking about how great the Republic is or anything like that. So really all we had to go on was that they were fighting because they were told to, because that's what they were raised their whole lives for, and as a product to be sold to a customer, if there were any "Slicks" that cropped up and didn't want to fight for the Republic, it can be inferred that they would be eliminated.

    Anyway, the clones themselves weren't fighting for money. But the Kaminoans that raised the army we were told did so for the money. We are also told that Kamino is beyond the Outer Rim. This planet is not part of the Republic, they have no reason to show any kind of loyalty or preference to the Republic, other than they were getting paid. The Kaminoans were trying to sell a product. They were not going to say nothing bad about the product. They "will obey any order without question," "magnificent, aren't they?", "a clone army, the finest we've ever created."

    That last quote even implies that they have made other clone armies for other patrons. The loyalty of the Kaminoans is something bought. Dooku could have gone to them and said clone an army for the CIS and they would have done it.

    What TCW showed us, as was said, is that the Kaminoans know that their patron is Tyrannus, and they know about Order 66. Which was just common sense, given that they would have needed to have known about it to condition it into the clones.

    Now in the EU, Order 66 was just one of many orders. While in TCW it's a secret order.

    Honestly, I like TCW's take on it being a secret order better. Just because it was one of several contingency orders in the EU doesn't make it any less weird. The Republic didn't have a standing army for like what, 1,000 years? The Jedi never took over when the Republic lacked an organized force. So why would Sifo-Dyas go to Kamino, order a clone army and ask for a contingency order to be used against his fellow Jedi? There's no reason for that to exist as a contingency order, IMO.

    As far as the "chip" I don't have as much of a problem with it as some other do, I just think it's redundant. If you have an army that was raised on Kamino and is all pro-Republic, they were clearly brainwashed to be that way. They have had their world views shaped by the Kaminoans since conception, and the Kaminoans were paid to make them fervent Republic patriots, even though they never lived in the Republic. So when the Chancellor gives them this order that translates to "kill the Jedi" I see no reason for further explanation. If this army will gladly fight, kill and die to protect a government they've never known, then it's easy to believe that they'll kill Jedi without question when Palpatine commands them to do so.

    Now if memory serves (I've not watched TCW in a long time), I think the bio-chip was essentially an implant that blocked certain neural pathways in the clones. Such that Order 66 was a repressed order that the clones themselves were not aware of because that section of the brain was inhibited. And that when Tup's chip started to malfunction, the inhibitor was failing, compelling him to kill Jedi. Now this is just me nitpicking, but a problem with that that I see is that if the Jedi had this overwhelming compulsion to kill Jedi, then why didn't the 501st shoot Anakin? There had to be some kind of override that allowed the clones to exclude Anakin as a target. What would have been the simplest explanation IMO, is that the clones kill the Jedi because they were told to, and they spare Anakin because they were told to.

    My interpretation was that the biochip was inhibiting sections of the brain, it was not carrying any orders. It's not like the chip had C++ coding telling a biological being to kill when commanded "execute order 66." My interpretation was that the chip merely inhibited areas of the brain containing those thoughts. And that beside the desire to kill Jedi, the clones also begin referring to Palpatine as "my Lord," and so those inhibited areas of the brain may also have contained suppressed knowledge of the Empire, since the clones seem to switch to an Imperial style of address when referring to Palpatine BEFORE Palpatine declares himself Emperor.

    I don't think the "chip" contradicts anything, I'm not that upset that they exist in canon, I just think they were redundant.

    I mean with how brainwashed the clones must have been to be loyal to the Republic, I would just think that it would be easy to think that brainwashing the clones to obey Palpatine above all else in instances where Palpatine's interests and Republic interests deviate. I think introducing a Manchurian Candidate style trigger was just redundant.
     
  7. Darth Kickass

    Darth Kickass Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    When I first saw ROTS my immediate thought was some form of brainwashing or mind control was at the heart of Order 66. The utterance of the phrase "execute Order 66" seemed to be the trigger (along the lines of the old spy movie cliche). I didn't really need TCW to have an arc to explain it officially, but it was an entertaining arc all the same. I think if anything, the arc was meant to lay the ground work for future story lines like Rex in Rebels
     
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  8. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    OOU maybe, but it makes perfect sense in-universe given how much is riding on Sidious's plan. From his perspective, why wouldn't he have a backup plan in case something unforeseen happens?
     
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  9. moonjump05

    moonjump05 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2013

    True, Sids has to make sure all the millions of clones will swiftly carry out order 66, otherwise his plan could fail.
     
  10. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003

    I care about the OOU aspect. The OOU decision making process one of the biggest flaws of the PT IMO (and TCW inherits this problem too). The Clone Wars (the war, not the TV show) becomes entirely uninteresting IMO, because Palpatine had won before it ever started.

    Julius Caesar and Hitler may have had their own private forces, but they were one force among several, and those historical figures had to maneuver their way to the top. Palpatine? Not so much.

    Lucas has talked about the PT as showing what can happen to make a Republic into an Empire and what drives people to give up their freedom, but whereas you can look at the rise of several historical figures and see where mistakes were made, and where things could have happened differently to lead to radically different outcomes, the PT - nor TCW - really show how things could have happened differently. Palpatine had all of his bases covered more-or-less. Lucas wanted to tell a tragedy, but the only tragedy was really that of Anakin Skywalker.

    I don't know if it's the dictionary definition, but in literary classes I've taken, I had been told that the key component to a tragedy is that it's something bad that happens that could have been avoided. A child that gets into drugs and overdoses is a tragedy. An 80 year old man that dies of cancer is not. The kid was a victim of their own decision making, the parents might be kicking themselves thinking that they should have been paying more attention, etc. Whereas the 80 year old man exceeded the average life expectancy and died from cancer for which there is no cure.

    With Anakin, we can see a tragedy where his decision making and the decision making of those around him could have led him down a different path. With Palpatine we have a guy that gets elected Chancellor... based on sympathy... for an outcome of a plan that didn't even go right. Amidala never should have made it off Naboo, then Maul was supposed to track her down and force her to sign the treaty, this all failed, and Palpatine still capitalizes on this failure, without any real difficulty.

    In AOTC, we basically find out that the Sith are behind a clone army that they ordered Kaminoans to make, and the Kaminoans will do anything for money. Where's the tragedy there? I mean you can really stretch things by saying the tragedy was in the greed of the Kaminoans, or that the tragedy lay in the Senate electing Palpatine for the dumbest of reasons due to sympathy, but that's not a powerful narrative IMO. Filoni likes to point out that the Jedi had become a mockery of what they stood for by joining the war and that Barriss was right about them, etc. As though it's some tragedy that they became soldiers. When as far as I can tell, they were forced into that situation. They kicked off TCW by going to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan. What were they supposed to do? Let Obi-Wan die? Would that have stopped The Clone Wars? Had they refused to participate in The Clone Wars, would it have changed anything, or would senators just label them as traitors for not assisting in the war effort? I could see the same basic outcome of the public turning against them regardless of the actions they took. Unless it could be argued that the Jedi could have stopped the war and killed Palpatine by NOT fighting, then there really isn't a tragedy there.

    Then unlike Hitler and Caesar, there's the fact that Sidious controls both sides of the war. So hypothetically, if the clones didn't perform as expected or if senate began to stall the war effort, or if people started calling for peace, well then Palpatine likely could have just jumped sides. The only difference would be that Palpatine ruled as a public figurehead of the Republic, but he ruled the CIS as a shadowy figure. But no matter what side won, it would ultimately be a Sith victory, even if the Republic winning would have been the most ideal.

    Then you add to this Order 66 being this Manchurian candidate thing, and it's just another layer of "I win" for Palpatine. There's no real tragedy. The only opportunity to end Palpatine was either Anakin killing Palpatine in his office, or Anakin allowing Mace to do it. The PT and TCW up to that point are IMO not tragedies because there really wasn't a whole lot of alternative. If the Senate voted against the army and let Palpatine's term expire, then Dooku would just invade a defenseless Republic. If the Jedi refused the clone army and refused to tell the Senate about it, then same thing. Etc.

    Order 66 in itself I think removes a lot of tragedy from the situation. Some people say that the clones were tragic characters, but from my understanding, no they aren't. They never had a choice. I guess the only choice they had was believing Fives about the chips, and Rex and a couple others were the only ones able to avoid it. But to those millions of clones that never knew about the chips, they aren't tragic because they never had the opportunity to save themselves. But they never did either way, since either due to training to "obey any order" or due to a chip, one really isn't any more tragic than the other, though I guess if anything their inability to overcome their conditioning would have made them more tragic than a Manchurian candidate trigger that they have no defense against. But I just see the chip as a redundancy in a larger issue of Lucas wanting to tell the story about a tragic turn of events that turned the Republic into an Empire, but stripped a lot of the tragedy out of it, since Palpatine had his bases covered TOO well.
     
  11. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014


    I think you misunderstood me. Order 66 is just an executive order. It has to be given directly by the Chancellor and their word is all that is necessary - i.e. there is no requirement for Senate approval, or the Jedi Council or Security Council to validate it. The order states that the Jedi are acting against the interests of the Republic and have to be taken out.

    Clones follow orders unquestionally. They don't have individual free will to disobey a LEGAL order.

    The Kaminoans in the films didn't cover anything up. In AOTC, someone who is believed to be a Jedi has gone to them and ordered a clone army almost 10 years ago. Now it is odd there is little investigation of this, I suppose this is what the TCW tried to get into, but it just made the Jedi look totally incompetent.

    It may have been the actual Sifo Dyas who made the order and told Dooku (his friend) and Dooku betrayed him and alerted Sidious who thought they could utilize this in the future. Or it might have been Dooku posing as Sifo Dyas after having killed him. Either way, the Kaminoans had nothing to do with Tyrannus. Jango Fett however, was recruited by Tyrannas (if he was telling the truth, which he probably was) from what he told Obi Wan on Kamino. He was then sent to the Kaminoans to be cloned and provide input on the whole process. As for payment, it is possible that Sidious and Dooku arranged a discreet downpayment claiming to be on behalf of the Republic from Dooku's wealth or from whatever money they had been using this whole time for their dark designs in TPM etc.

    The Kaminoans clearly are expecting the Jedi to come and take delivery of this army they have been building for them. I think TCW messed it up by trying to show them deceiving the Republic and Jedi with the Tyrannus hologram stuff. There was no need for that. Even if we go by that questionable story, it appears from the episode that they believe Tyrannus to be a Jedi - they note after the conversation that Jedi are curious.

    There was no chip shown in AOTC. The clones are merely desgined from a genetic template of Jango Fett, but altered at the genome level to be more docile, and then enhanced with growth acceleration. All but one clone - Boba, who is merely an exact replica of the original and given to Fett as payment. The clones are then grown at an accelerated rate and trained intensively to obey orders and in the ways of combat.

    The Kaminoans at no point done anything against the original requirements. The clones at this point are totally loyal to their superiors.

    THE ENTIRE POINT OF ORDER 66 and the dark, but incredibly clever thing in ROTS is that the highest authority of the Republic is the CHANCELLOR. Thus their orders supercede the Generals on the battlefield. So they have no hesitation whatsoever in executing the Jedi on the Chancellor's orders. (Remember at this point, the Chancellor's office has amassed significant powers, no longer requiring the Senate for deliberating - cited again in ROTS).

    That is a great explanation, not cheapening it or trying to make the clones look like they were fun good loving kids heroes who weren't really bad. Order 66 is LEGAL. And the Chancellor is the Supreme Commander. Had Palpatine never given the order, then it would have never happened. Had windu killed Palpatine, or Palpatine been removed from office, then it wouldn't have happened (unless the next Chancellor still had such emergency powers and issued the order).


    The Jedi weren't political. Had the clones been totally loyal to the Jedi Order for instance, then the Jedi would have been the highest authority.

    It was a bit silly to make this a Manchurian Candidate type thing which ruined the conspiracy and legality of the rise of Palpatine and the fall of both the Republic and the Jedi Order. The Jedi were betrayed by the very Republic they served.

    I can understand if there were exceptions to the rule - maybe a few small platoons of special commando clones or ARCs were created with some independence - i.e. the altering of the original Fett template was done differently. But I can't see them producing an independent clone, then sticking some aritificial chip into them which magically makes them go into a trance, kill anyone who wields a lightsaber (and no one else) and then come out of said trance to discover what they have done and end up weeping. It seems bizarre!

    What that episode arc could have done was focus on an investigation into Tyrannus and maybe have the Jedi close in on a clue to Sidious himself. This was suggested in the novel, Star Wars Labrynth of Evil, which was pretty darn good. It culminated in Sidious actually ordering Dooku and Grievous to initiate their master plan of invading Coruscant (seen in ROTS) to distract the Jedi and provide a suggestion that Sidious had escaped in the chaos. I think this is a great story and would have been super to see on TCW - because it makes sense without confusing the films and canon. It follows canon. It also shows us many new worlds, shows us Obi Wan and Anakin bonding, some frustration between the Senate and the Chancellor, between the Jedi Order and the Chancellor. It also shows us other Jedi and commandos working together with Republic intelligence to track down Sidious who they track from various planets back to The Works on Coruscant. Indeed the intelligence officer makes a nice remark about how their prey would have to be able to hover to move around undetected, to which he realizes is possible.

    Alternatively they could have had Sidious or someone secretly communicating to "Tup" who then executed the order and attempted to kill the Jedi, killed one, and was then shot by another trooper. Whilst trying to work out what happened, he and his helmet are stolen by the CIS. Then Anakin and the others steal it back. But at this point the comm unit has been damaged leading them to suspect that someone spoke to him. Then expand on that. Maybe it would be better if you had some subliminal message via a flash from a droid specifically at Tup which everyone sees and he suddenly tries to kill Jedi. When he is sent to Kamino, he remembers nothing and during the scans, another message is sent to a different Clone on Kamino to kill Tup. Then during a fight Fives kills that clone, but not before he has killed Tup and the evidence. Have Fives then take the comm unit give it to Shaak Ti, and then have the same sequence where they go to Coruscant to investigate it. But it is difficult to go down the path of revealing a protocol or order to kill the Jedi, because that revelation means that Order 66 in ROTS is less of a surprise and if the Jedi do discover this, then they look incompetent!

    The films should take precedence, and one has to admit that the idea of chips cheapens the films. Don't get me wrong, TCW was still very good sometimes, some arcs and episodes were brilliant. I just wish we had more battles (given that this is the famous Clone Wars) and more Jedi.

    Star Wars was meant to be about a great saga and story, not changing things for populist reasons and resurrecting the dead (e.g. Maul) or trying to make everyone seems kid friendly (even the bad guys). Next they will be showing Palpatine being evil as he has some chip in him which malfunctioned.

    I think TCW was brilliant at times, but episodes like this spoilt it.
     
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  12. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    My theory on Sifo Dyas was that he was a Jedi who had received a vision from the force about the galaxy being in war so he went to the Kaminons and order a clone army. Palpatine finds this out and while Sifo is out on a mission has Dooku kill him and erase the records.
    What were the plot holes that TCW tried to fix?
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That was certainly the EU's take on it - almost word for word from Labyrinth of Evil:

    Sidious had recognized in Dooku the makings of a true accomplice—an equal from the other camp, already trained in the Jedi arts, a master duelist, a political visionary. But he needed to gauge the depth of Dooku's commitment.
    One of your former confidants at the Jedi Temple has perceived the coming change, Sidious had told him. This one has contacted a group of cloners, regarding the creation of an army for the Republic. The order for the army can stand, for we will be able to make use of that army someday. But Master Sifo-Dyas cannot stand, for the Jedi cannot learn about the army until we are prepared to have them learn of it.
    And so with the murder of Sifo-Dyas, Dooku had embraced the dark side fully, and Sidious had conferred on him the title Darth Tyranus. His final act before leaving the Jedi Order was to erase all mentions of Kamino from the Jedi archives. Then, as Tyranus, he had found Fett on Bogg 4; had instructed the Mandalorian to deliver himself to Kamino; and had arranged for payments to be made to the cloners through circuitous routes ...
    Ten years passed.

    And the newcanon is very similar:

    http://www.starwars.com/databank/sifo-dyas

    SIFO-DYAS

    A member of the Jedi Council before the blockade of Naboo, Sifo-Dyas believed the galaxy would soon be plunged into war, and agitated for the Republic to create an army for its defense. After the other Jedi rejected his ideas and removed him from the council, he secretly contacted the Kaminoans and commissioned them to create a clone army, which he led the Kaminoans to believe was for the Republic. In doing so, Sifo-Dyas became an unwitting pawn of the Sith, who took over the project and hired the Pyke Syndicate to murder Sifo-Dyas on Oba Diah’s moon. A decade after Sifo-Dyas’ death, Obi-Wan Kenobi discovered the army he had commissioned, now ready for duty. The Jedi took control of this army on Supreme Chancellor Palpatine’s orders, setting the Clone Wars in motion.
     
  14. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    While we're on the subject, can someone please explain how Sifo-Dyas was on Felucia with Dooku--alive--when we know he was shot down and killed over Oba Diah?
     
  15. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2015
    I thought Dooku just brought his body their and acted like he was killed their by the locals.
     
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  16. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I think the Labrynth of Evil explanation seemed to fit in with the films best.

    Yes the Labrynth of Evil explanation was superb. I think the databank (official Star Wars website) is also fine. It is perfect that Sifo Dyas orders the army, is discovered by the Sith to have perceived the upcoming war (or tells his friend Dooku of this) and is murdered by them to avoid the Jedi discovering it.

    What was wrong with TCW, was that they tried to make it like Dooku had appeared to them in person to do it or that the Kaminoans were somehow creating chips in the clones and party to some conspiracy against the Jedi Order. Order 66 was meant to be (according to the films, Star Wars databank and canon) an executive order from the highest authority, and therefore legal.

    The Kaminoans simply created a totally obedient being who was loyal to the Republic. The highest authority in said Republic was the Chancellor (thanks to all the emergency powers), not their Jedi Generals. Thus no further approval or proof was needed of Jedi treachery than the Chancellor's word and them issuing an order to execute their Jedi Generals. This was not meant to be some chip - clones are not droids!

    I liked the databank and Labrynth of Evil background on Sifo Dyas.

    I don't think he was on Felucia though right?
     
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  17. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Precisely. It was unnecessary to try and change the film canon.

    The clones were bred with very little free will - i.e. the creative thinking to be able to best fulfill an objective versus the standard droid programming. Clones would however, follow all legal orders without a question. Thus Order 66, an executive order from the highest authority to execute a lower ranked officer (Jedi General) was legal and totally obeyed without hesitation. The film clearly shows, the clones receive the order and immediately think how best to carry it out, and execute said order. It isn't down to a chip or trance. Clones follow orders. The Chancellor outranked the Jedi Generals and given he wasn't deposed, he gave the order and that was done. Had Palpatine been removed, life would have continued as normal.
     
  18. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    And unlike a lot of people I did not care because it was his company and his movies until he sold them and now there Disney.
     
  19. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Think about it this way in Universe he figured out about the Chip and the plan behind it all maybe even more then Fives did.

    Would you stay?
     
  20. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2015
    lol I like this way better than every clone just being like "Okay Papa palps."
     
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  21. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    But the whole point in the films and the sheer brilliance is that it is a perfectly legal order. Palpatine is the Supreme Commander. As he was NOT removed from office successfully by the Jedi or the Senate, he is still the highest legal authority in the Republic. The clones are absolutely loyal and follow orders (AOTC). Palpatine outranks the Jedi Generals and thus his legal order is all the clones require and they obey it unquestionally. Had he been removed from office, no order would be given, nothing would change.

    It isn't a trance. It isn't even evil intent on the clones' part. They don't care either way. They follow orders as they were created without normal free will. They do not hesitate for a second. They merely think how to creatively execute their superior's orders. That is it.
     
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  22. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    But how do the Clones even know what Order 66 is?

    Nothing in the order itself says "Kill all the Jedi".

    So how would they know, unless they memorised a list of orders, all knew which one he was referring to, and all carried it out without a shred of doubt.
     
  23. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    The clones know what the order is from their flash training. The "Orders" were contingency orders for the clones in the event of x,y,z, happening. The clever thing about order 66 was that it was worded in such a way that the Jedi, being the clones commanders, would be terminated by lethal force. The other clever thing is that the orders before and after order 66 dealt with if the Supreme Chancellor needed to stand down by force. So if you were a jedi and reading these orders you'd think, "this deals with the chancellor blah, blah, blah, clone commanders blah, blah, blah, chancellor blah, blah, blah ect..."
     
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  24. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    But none of that is in the films, so why is it any better than the chips?
     
  25. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    Chips make the clones good guys who *didn't mean to do it because the chip forced them to and they love the jedi*
    I like the idea that the jedi were a kind of chip of their own that kept the clones in check morally. After the clones loose the "chip" the go berserk without the jedi to be their moral code.
    Also clones love their job.:clone: