ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Okay, do you think the Force created Anakin in response to the Sith? If so, then they are indirectly a part of the causal chain, and may think that they created Anakin. Which would explain their interest in the Skywalkers.

If Plagueis = Snoke and he doesn't think he created Anakin/Skywalkers, then how strongly would he actually connect the PT to the ST? Not much, in my view.

 

According to the Plagueis novel, Plagueis believed that the Force created Anakin as a rebuttal to his dark side Force tampering. He didn't directly create Anakin, but feared Anakin was the way in which the Force would strike back against the Sith for their unnatural meddling.

 

Exactly, either way the Sith are the ultimate or remote cause of the Chosen One.

But what really matters is whether or not they think they may be the proximate or necessary cause. If so, that would explain their interest in Anakin and the Skywalker line.

However, TFA novel states that Snoke only became interested in the Skywalkers when he discovered Ben, which contradicts him having a longterm interest in the Skywalkers.

But if Snoke wasn't interested in Anakin, then he must not have been Plagueis; or if he is Plagueis, then Plagueis must not think he created Anakin, which means there's no connection to the PT.

 

If we're still using the Plagueis novel then I would have to argue that he never had the opportunity to really be interested in Anakin; he was "killed" within days of discovering him by Sidious. Who knows how long it might have taken him to recover and by that point, it was too late as he would have been in Sidious' grasp. Luke may not have been discovered until it was too late in his training and Plagueis would have found him untouchable as a result. Young Ben though, born within a year of the defeat of Sidious and Vader was tempted from a young age and his training didn't begin with Luke until after Snoke/Plagueis would have begun his seduction.

Obviously all of this is conjecture but it does fit that line from TFA novel.

 

What I would be interested in is how this mess of a character can be salvaged. Someone once mentioned that he is just a hologram illusion and the real villain is played by Gwendolyn Christie. That would be great.

 

You know the Lincoln thing does point out few things about the character at the very least in regard to personality.

• We know that he has an understanding of the dramatic as he's a larger size and sits in an imposing way
• The fact that he's in a chair vs standing means that he has this thing about looking down at others rather then looking directly at them ala Sidious.
• We know that he at least made sure that the room where he appears is set up in a way that the lights keep him in shadow. Which makes me wonder if Hux knows more about him the Ben Solo does.
• There's the fact that the room is implied to be stone, unlike Sidious again, who was more on the front of tech, this is a more natural based thing.
• He uses shadows to cover parts of his face shrouding him in mystery and making it so that one could see him as more powerful then he is.
• He sees himself as a leader above others, and probably above the FO's heads. Which means to me we're dealing with a Vain type of person who may not be as powerful as we think he is.
• There's the fact that, unlike Vader or Sidious, he can't sense Luke, even though Luke is not in a place that masks the light due to darkness like Yoda on Dagobah.
• Also there's the fact that if he is a teacher of the dark side of things, why is it that Ben can't construct a proper saber? Even with the Sith that's a key to their learning and passing a test.
• If he's not sith, and yet he feels the force, does this indicate a weaker user over all?

And this is just a strange fact. Ezra found a light saber just like Ben Solo's only it's green, the casing is certainly made by a good hand, and it's working properly, no ragged edging to it, meaning the crystal in it is working. The saber is also a light color in the metal, much like a jedi's rather then a siths.
I some what wonder if Snoke was trained partly by Maul.

 

Would be funny if he is on the same island with Luke being a "prisoner", and Luke tries to avoid having him escaping from the island. This could explain why he is only a holograph. Just a thought....

 

Yes to destroy the Sith. Qui-Gon constantly refers to "The LIVING Force".

I don't think Snoke is Plagueis.

If we get Plagueis then we get Midichlorians.

Plagueis = Midichlorians.

Let's face it not many fans are proponents of Midichlorians. (I have no prob with midi's)

 

Some other people have suggested that he may actually be very frail and not powerful at all. I think that could be a nice twist, if we see him revealed as weak and Kylo Ren takes over afterwards.

 

That isn't always the case:

 

I feel that the casting of Serkis gives at least the possibility that we'll get Action Snoke at some point. He is fairly spritely as an ape, so the casting of a mo-cap expert just to sit in a chair seems a bit of a waste.

 

I loved Snoke. I felt a powerful menace coming from him whenever he entered the scene.

 

Oh I certainly hope so.

 

Even my boss is more menacing than Snoke.

That's true. Right now there seems to be little need to make Snoke a mo-cap character. You can easily do the Zombie-look with make-up. So it's quite possible they will show his body move and it actually works a little bit different than a human body.

 

Please direct all Plagueis talk to the Plagueis thread, thank you. PS, I appreciate your convictions on how stupid the idea of Plagueis being Snoke is, unfortunately I can't discriminate on who says what about the Plagueis theories.

 

I think he will have an oh crap don't mess with this guy moment in episode 8 or 9. I feel they will expand on him more than Palpatine in the OT. Instead of just blasting someone with force lightning in the finale, I think they will show his power more prior to a final confrontation.

 

Okay so in Rebels we may have another sith, possibly Maul, showing up at one point. Maul is outside the rule of two, a person who can wield the dark side but isn't a sith lord as per the Darth Bane rules dictate. If Snoke is trying to start a new sort of order under a certain guise then would it be hard to see him playing up his powers and turning out to be someone who, while action, isn't at the level of Sidious? We know for sure that Kylo Ren made that saber, but he would have had to have been taught by Snoke to do so. If Snoke has not made a saber, then teaching Ben Solo would have made it that the new Kylo Ren saber is cruder in design. Any sith lord would have told him, he's not ready to make a saber given the design he did, as even they have standards that are followed.

 

I thought the title of "Darth" was specifically and strictly for Sith Lords. If so wouldn't that make Darth Maul a Sith Lord? When talking to the TF, Sidious refers to him as a SIth - "Not for a Sith".

 

It makes too much sense to tie him to the OT somehow because there's no way Sidious didn't know that a powerful force sensitive like Snoke was out there and he hunted down everybody else. Because the only other explanation if Snoke is truly a new character is to say that he somehow evaded Vader and Sidious all throughout the Imperial Era. I think that's a harder, although not impossible sell than to just say he was somehow connected to everything else that happened. That's just makes more sense to me. He doesn't HAVE to be Darth Plagueis even though that's the most popular fan theory I'd say. They could make him an Inquisitor as well and this has also been thrown around as a possibility by some fans too. I think a Sith Inquisitor would be interesting.

My own personal fan theory is that Vader was planning to overthrow the Emperor which is why he tried to turn Luke in ESB. He blatantly said it in Episode 5 and most people miss it. That's the OTHER major point of the famous "I am your father" scene that people overlook. Vader was planning to overthrow Sidious the same way Sidious did Plagueis (or so the story goes). I think Vader founded the Knights of Ren and Snoke may have been his Apprentice and I think the Knights of Ren would formed to kill Sidious That would be interesting. I think Snoke fought Luke and lost which is why he's battle-scarred. However somehow Snoke was able to turn Ben Solo to the darkside as Luke was attempting to rebuild the New Jedi Order.

 

Whether or not Maul is a Sith was already answered in Son of Dathomir. The answer is YES as he is directly called a Sith and SOD is canon.

The Rule of Two is more of a guideline or maybe even Yoda speaking out of ignorance.

 

If you remember, Maul referred to himself as a Sith in those episodes of the clone wars. He took his brother as his apprentice and planned on killing Palpatine and Dooku. To bad he wasn't as powerful as he OR HIS FANS thought he was. In the end he served his purpose as Sideous' weapon. As far as the Galaxy is concerned he never became anything more than a pawn of the darkside.

 

Not every Sith can compare in power to Sidious or Vader who are implied to be the apex of the entire Sith line. As far as being a pawn, yes, Maul was a faithful servant of Sidious in TPM - as Vader was a faithful servant between ROTS and ANH. But Maul had his own agency and dreams in TCW and afterwards so I find it wrong to dismissively call him a "pawn". He is his own master now. I would even say that Palpatine is more of a pawn of the dark side since he seems to lack self-control, rather giving in to his base instincts and the dark side in ROTJ.

 

I'm just going off the fact that the guy could barely complete a sentence and was cut in half by an apprentice.

 

-We don't know that Luke's island DOESN'T shroud him from other FS-ers actually. If it's really the location of the First Jedi Temple, then I could absolutely see that being the case. Also Sheev and Vader couldn't sense that Obi Wan was on Tatooine for like 20 years, including when Vader was onboard a ship directly above the planet.

-Snoke might be immensely powerful in The Force, but physically frail (be it from age, or previous injuries).

-Him potentially not being a Sith doesn't automatically imply "weaker" to me, merely "different."

The point is, the guy is such a mystery/cypher right now that it's hard to tell anything about him for sure. I look forward to learning more about him.