Rogue One Discussion Thread -- Untagged Spoilers Within

If you want to remain unspoiled for Rogue One, TURN BACK NOW!




Normally discussion not specifically related to fanfic belongs in the social thread, but since people will be seeing Rogue One at different times and we don't want the social thread to be a mass of spoiler tags we've made this thread to discuss the movie while the spoiler period is in effect.

The spoiler period (as in, the time that discussion of something is considered a spoiler) for movies is 2 weeks, so this thread will remain open until at least December 30th, if not a little longer.

This thread is only for discussion of Rogue One, any other social discussion should remain in the social thread. This is the only place in fanfic you should discuss R1 until the spoiler period is over. (You may talk about when you are seeing the movie and how many times you've seen it in the normal social thread.) If you want to post a fanfic that has spoilers, please see the Fanfic FAQ for rules about posting spoiler stories.


You do NOT need to use spoiler tags in this thread.



Please remember that everyone is here because they are a Star Wars fan, but opinions on this movie will vary, so be respectful.

Have fun!

 

Genius idea, mavjade, to keep it contained. I won't see it until Thursday night, so might avoid 'til then. I will say that initial reviews I've seen are fairly positive. So I am keeping my fingers crossed!

 

I've already read some spoilers...oh crap, I might actually find this one interesting. (The Sequel Trilogy and I had a relatively amicable divorce last year, so I couldn't give a womprat's fart about what goes on in that sector. I didn't give up the entirety of Star Wars, though...maybe this is a good thing when it comes to anything involving the OT. Plus my mother is HYPED to see this film, and she needs help getting around, so I'll be seeing this one anyway).

 

Just finished watching. Since this thread allows spoilers....everybody dies.

Послато са SM-J500FN уз помоћ Тапатока

 

Only saw this comment now. Since my mom was the oldest person in the theatre, for the second time in a row, I totally know how this goes. And I do hope that people over there are more inclined to enjoy whatever movie they want regardless of their age! I saw more women over 60 at a Rammstein concert than I did at this premiere.

Disclaimer: I only roughly knew that the film was about Death Star plans, that Darth Vader would be in it and that an actress named Felicity Jones was playing a character named Jyn Erso. And maybe this is what made the whole thing more enjoyable.

This film, while it may appear semi-digested if one does not think too much, is not as full of re-hashes as The Force Awakens is. I don't care about public opinion and reviews - what we all think about something might be miles away from what it really is and the media is often absolutely ridiculous and now even the non-populists are populists. The idea of everybody dying usually leaves me cold and likely to abandon books and films that explore it, because people do that kind of stuff for the shock value and for "statements", but in this film, nobody died in vain. There's a good reason why nobody makes it out alive and it's believable - in similar situations in history, most didn't.

Mon Mothma is not exactly the nicest person in this one, neither are most non-military folk among the Rebels. If there's a hope motif, they're hope-devoid by the very end and we don't get to see them be...hopeful.

R2-D2 and C-3PO have a cameo, though I would've liked to see them board the corvette and some point and I kind of regret that there wasn't a scene where C-3PO and K-2SO got to talk, as that could've been potentially funny. The droid is the most likeable character in the film anyway and, for those who know 0-0-0 from Darth Vader and Dr. Aphra comics, he's somewhere halfway between that and C-3PO.

The whole connection with A New Hope is sliiightly tricky to grasp. I find myself wondering why Leia needs Obi-Wan at all after seeing this and why is Bail Organa going back to Alderaan at all.

There are details that remind me of Ultravox's music video for Dancing With Tears in My Eyes, and little things that are very Pretty Village Pretty Flame (another one where everybody dies and both sides are depicted as shades of grey, yes), Ben Hur, Léon; but more importantly, two of my favourite SW motifs are there - blindness and light vs. dark. The latter is common, but the earlier is such a tricky thing to work with.

Fic-wise...kind of gutted. My cool plot where a scientist is kidnapped and taken to DS2 is suddenly something somebody else explored, so is a battle on the beach. Well...I conceived them before Rogue One, should I be happy about it or something?

Those are some initial thoughts, out of anything even remotely resembling order.

 

OH.
MY.
GOD.

This. He was sending her to get Obi-Wan while he went back to Alderaan to tell them that there was no chance of peace, and yet instead of going to find Obi Wan, she tagged along on the mission to rescue Jyn & the Pathfinders? Huh?

Otherwise, my only real quibble was that it didn't open with the traditional SW fanfare. I dunno...it didn't feel 'Star Warsy' to me until much later. (Big space battle! Epic!!!) And it explained why they could only scrounge together 30 ships to attack the Death Star. Loved the glimpse of the base on Yavin 4.

 

Okay. I just got home so my thoughts are kinda scrabbled, but BASICALLY I LOVE IT BECAUSE EVERYONE DIEEEEESSSSS.

Okay, first off, I was hoping everyone was going to die. I wanted A New Hope to be a new hope. I was particularly hoping Jyn was going to die - not because I didn't like the character (I enjoyed her, but she was far from my favorite), but I was hoping to swash the "Jyn is Rey's mom" theories - mostly because I'm hoping for an off-screen mom for Rey so I can insert Mara - but also because I wanted RO to be a true stand alone. If Disney is going to churn out a Star Wars movie a year for the next 45 years, I don't want them to be all interconnected. I mean, yeah, RO BASICALLY sets up ANH, but you probably won't have to watch RO to get EP VIII. I think RO shows that you don't need Jedi or the Sith or the Force or Skywalkers as the main plot points to make a successful SW movie - so I'm hoping that the "on going family drama that is the Skywalkers" will be saved for the "episodes" and we will get more movies expanding the universe.

But, as Ewok Poet stated: no one died in vain. There was no shock value to any of the deaths, but it all, including the decimation of the Alliance/Rebel fleet, added to the feeling of "the rebellion on it's last legs" in ANH.

As a daughter of a blind Star Wars Nerd, I loved Chirrut Imwe. I nearly peed myself laughing at the whole "bag over the blind guy" bit. I also really enjoyed K-2SO. I mean, maybe the "droid as the humorous relief" is a bit cliche for SW at this point, but it was funny. It worked.

And I actually really enjoyed the music. It was different but it helped the whole movie set a tone of: "this isn't an episode in the Star Wars Saga; this is simply a story set in the same galaxy."

Okay, so I actually didn't hear all of Senator Organa's lines (some STUPID PERSON next to me was talking which just pisses me off because I love Bail Organa and love Jimmy Smitts). I have a theory, but I'm actually going to snag the e-book when it comes out (the official release date is tomorrow) and see if I can make sense of it

 

Thanks for the book tip, because mom and I literally spent the day trying to figure that one out and nothing seemed logical enough.

We already have...problems.
http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/12/14/star-wars-rogue-one-posters-daily-mail-commenters/

Ahem, my name - and yes, I'm that particular to it.

 

I'm hoping for a midnight release on the Ebook, but it's not up yet and the 3-D has my eyes (and my head) all buggy (IMO, that was the last Star Wars movie I'm bothering to see in 3-D. It just isn't worth it), so I probably won't wait long past midnight for it. But it seems to me that the "alliance" was still the left over resistant senators we see in that EP III deleted scene (the Delegation of 2,000 scene) - some senators and their planets are clearly way more militant and invested in a rebellion and some (since the senate isn't dissolved until that scene in ANH) are still looking for a diplomatic solution. I think Alderaan was still a more "peaceful solution" planet (at least on the outside) at that point (thus Leia's "No! Alderaan is peaceful! We have no weapons" line). Bail, at the news of the Death Star, sees the end of any resemblance of a democracy and thus the end to any sort of a possible peaceful end to the Empire. So he was off to Alderaan (I think the line was "to tell them that peace isn't working" - I can't remember) to basically start the planet as an open rebellion. But because the alliance is clearly not yet united (since they didn't all want to mount a full scale assault to get the plans) he goes "it's time for Kenobi to come out of hiding." Thus why he sends Leia BUUUUUUTTTT when the Alliance decides to back up the Rogues (which now I totally forgot why) Leia decides to go help (or maybe Bail stops her after he sees the Alliance band together?). However, when her ship is the only one to escape with the plans she goes "YUP, WE NEED THIS KENOBI GUY."

That is probably wrong and makes no sense.

 

I won't make sense either, since I just had some horrible yoghurt and it raised my BS and I feel sick, but..

...same for 3D here. My good eye struggles to follow and sees double with 3D glasses. Ironically, the eye that normally sees double feels that 3D glasses are therapeutic.

And that makes sense, to a certain extent!

EDIT: Is the spoiler policy for stories same as it was for TFA? As in, a mention in the thread title and a red HERE BE SPOILERS FOR ROGUE ONE, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK?

 

Yes, for two weeks following the "official" release date of Dec. 16

Okay, I just got the eBook and did a quick search for the scenes in question so, basically, I was right about the Rebel “Alliance” being quite fragmented (as we see): "As an organization, the Rebel Alliance was held together more by external pressure than by internal bonds” (direct quote from novel - it then goes on to list how Mon Mothma wanted political overtures regardless of their success, Bail was more focused on rapidly intervening wherever Imperial atrocities occurred, Saw Gerrera’s aggressive agenda had made him withdrawal. Then, after the whole “Call sign Rogue One” scene, the scene with Mon Mothma and Bail talking they basically agree war is inevitable and Bail decides "I must return to Alderaan to inform my people that there will be no peace.” Then Mothma asks him to send for his Jedi friend (I guess since they decided this needs to be an all out war) which he agrees to do.

As for why Leia is at the battle - the book explains it better (but I think we kinda see it in the madness of the battle - it's going to need a re-watch), though it kinda has a different passing off of the plans. The Tantive IV was in the hanger of the Profundity and not in the battle (due to some repairs). After they get the transmission, they manage to get out of the battle. So I guess Leia was on Yavin and got swept up into the battle before going to get Kenobi?

 

Okay, now that I slept for 15 hours straight I'm in a fit state to leave my first comments in this thread

Like Bri I absolutely loved the fact that everyone dies. I actually love stories where everyone dies and fails at their mission, like John Le Carré novels, but I'm okay with them succeeding in this case. The way the deaths came one by one reminded me of some medieval epics where the heroes are trapped in a besieged city and die as they try to break the enemy lines. Jyn and Cassian's death scene was particularly poetic, with that sunset-like imagery, and of course Chirrut and Baze

The other thing I loved is how the film answers a million tiny questions for ANH -- for instance now we know why the call sign Red Five was available for Luke. There were several tidbits that made me squee out loud, and when Artoo and Threepio appear on screen I literally pummeled Mr Chyn's shoulder in excitement.

Krennic. What a great villain. What a loser.

VAAAAADER! That final scene, where he appears with his lightsaber -- squee of delight again, and then he slaughters everyone in sight and it's terrifying. And that whole sequence of the plans passing from hand to hand until they reach Leia had me holding my breath.

The new characters -- all of them. I particularly liked how Saw Gerrera is this cyborg extremist, a Rebel version of Vader in so many ways. The fact that there are no "clean" good guys was such a brilliant idea.

The planets, the world building, the photography were amazing, and the casting was simply spot-on.

Lastly, and most importantly, bring on the grit! The war element of Star Wars was plainly there to see in this film, and it was about time we got that.

Minor gripes:

As noted above, why would Leia be with the fleet at all, and how did Artoo and Threepio find themselves on the Tantive IV? They were still on Yavin IV when the fleet was already gone.

The music in the beginning of the film. From the middle onward I thought the score was absolutely glorious, but I was disappointed that the beginning didn't draw more on SW themes -- it threw me a little off-balance, but I'll comment on this again when I see it a second time.

 

I just like it when everyone dies (and when I'm right about everyone dying ) But Jyn and Cassian's deaths were amazing with the imagery.

But I thought all the little ANH references were great. The 'I'm wanted on 12 systems' made me laugh out loud. And I swear I heard a reference to a General Syndulla.

And yeah. I enjoy seeing the extremist side of the Rebellion and how people of the rebellion have done horrible things (which just breeds the plot bunnies I have about Winter as an assassin).

And VADER. The economy of his scenes were just amazingly done. He wasn't the villain. He was just there to clean it all up.

Thoughts on the cgi Tarkin and Leia? My eyes were going buggy by that point but I actually didn't mind them. It pulled me out of the movie for a second to see Peter Cushing, because I know he's been dead for awhile. But Tarkin was a big part of the Death Star so it felt right for him to be in the story. As for Leia, meh. I could have taken or leaven her 3 seconds. They could have stuck with just her back shot, but it's not like it was a huge deal. But I do appreciate the fact that they took that risk - that's how we get advancements in technology.

Re: R2 and C3PO: I loved the cameo, but yeah, even the book kinda forgets about them. I guess they got on the Tantive iv when Raymus did.

 

Yup, I heard it too

As for cgi Tarkin and Leia, I need to see the film again before I express a final opinion about it. I did find that Tarkin's voice and intonations were slightly off, but that wasn't enough to spoil it for me.

 

Okay yay! I love that they made that little nod to Rebels, which means I guess Hera (or her father) survive Rebels to at least the point of RO.

And, yes. I'm going to have to wait till a watch through of it in 2D before I make a concrete verdict. I'll probably see it in theaters again at some point, probably during the holidays. But I'm also going to start actually reading the book today.

Also, anyone else get bitten by plot bunnies? I got bit by three small ones which I want to write (but I also have fic gifts to write) but nothing really big and epic like I did for TFA (which I still haven't written - bad Bri, bad! Maybe it will be a New Years fic resolution). I enjoyed the movie, but EVERYONE DIES and I'm happy that EVERYONE dies, so I'm not sure I'll ever write any epic surrounding it.

Also, the place where Darth Vader is on Mustafar is called "Vader's personal abode" (I looked it up because of plot bunnies). It just cracks me up.

 

I complained on the ride home that I didn't see any bothans. Or did they steal the plans to the second Death Star?

 

I'd like to point out that Manny Bothans was the guy who gave the Rebels info to the second Death Star.

Joking aside, I'd totally be okay with an all alien movie of the stealing for the info surrounding the second Death Star. Just a group of lovable, but highly qualified Bothan rebels who get this info, but all but one dies. The last one gets mortally injured but not before getting a ship and plotting a course for the Rebel Base.

Someone contact Disney.

 

I haven't slept enough in the last two days/nights to have any coherent thoughts. But I LOVED it! The whole thing, but the last ten minutes were everything!

I too loved that everyone died. Even figuring it was going to happen, I started crying when Chirrut died and the tears just kept rolling.

I was so excited that Bail had a decent part. Though now that I've seen Jimmy Smits in on The West Wing, I can't unsee Matt Santos, which kinda still works, actually.

I'm sure I'll have more actual thoughts once I've slept/seen it again.

Edit: Oh, and "Don't choke on your own aspirations" might be one of my favorite movie lines ever.

 

I don't normally cry at movies, but I got a bit teary eyed when Chirrut died. But after that I realized my hopes of everyone dying was going to come true and I was just like "OHHH YEESSS!"

I was really happy that he was in it (that was the only thing I spoiled for myself) and I thought his part in the movie was well suited for the character. I would have liked to have seen him on Alderaan (I wanted my heart to be completely ripped out next time I saw Alderaan destroyed - I don't think I will be, but it will be a whole lot sadder), but I totally understand why it wasn't in the film. It would have messed up the pacing of that last 10 minutes, which was the best part of the movie.

But yeah, I can't see Matt Santos in TWW without seeing Bail Organa, but it works, I just go with it (and of course I will make references to it in a fic )

Vader's dad joke was one of my favourite lines, besides "I'll be there for you... the captain said I had to." (It will be my new signature once the spoiler period ends).

 

I didn't like that line. I sounds like something Arnold Schwarzenegger would say. But Vader was a bad ass in the last few minutes of the movie. Wow! I didn't like his matt black helmet, but if I recall correctly he didn't get a nice glossy helmet until ESB.

Thanks for clearing that up. All I remember is Mon Mothma saying, "Many Bothans died to bring us these plans." So on the way home the conversation with my sons sounded something like this.

"Bothans died getting those plans? Did you see any Bothans?"

"Weren't those those short aliens?" my youngest asked.

"No. Bothans look like bipedal goats. I didn't see any goat people. I swear they took credit for something humans did. I bet this Bothan hero rumor was started by Borsk Fey'lya. He's a sneaky one. I bet his bothan hero story got him elected as chief-of-state."

My youngest said, "Mom, is that what's bothering you? Everybody died in the movie and you are upset that the bothans got credit for getting the plans."

Then both my sons agreed that I was weird.

And that whole rant on the way home was for nothing. The bothans got the plans to the second Death Star. My question is....why are there two sets of plans. It supposedly took twenty years to build the first Death Star and the second one probably got started a few years down the road, but way before any design problems were discovered. Don't you think they would use the same blueprints?

 

The Bothans didn't steal plans. I can't find Mon Mothma's full debriefing in ROTJ, but they stole info on the fact that there was a second Death Star being built, the fact that it was being protected by the forest moon of Endor, and the fact that Palpie was overseeing the final construction.

But the info they 'stole' was a trap, ANOTHER reason why it would be cool to have a Bothan movie.

 

Ah, okay. It has been a while since I have seen the OT...other than the Family Guy OT.

 

Well it will be after twelve thirty when I post this but I want to share my thoughts on RO.

As of now I am rating it a 9.7.

There were some things I didn't like but I dealt with it since they were minor and really more of personal preferences than anything else.

I do have a few questions like why Vader referred to the thieves as 'Rebel spies' but that could be explained away as bad intel on the Empire's part or a test on Vader's part to see how Leia would react to it. *shrugs*

I did call it that either everyone was going to die or one or two would narrowly survive the theft. I expected it so it wasn't shocking when everyone did die. Now people will hopefully shut up about Jyn being Rey's mother; but maybe a few will cling to the possibility that Jyn is her grandmother (Daisy Ridley did make a comment that the odds were better, if Rey was related to Jyn, that it would be grandmother and granddaughter than mother and daughter).

Cassian and Jyn's deaths were done beautifully and even though at one point I hoped they would survive because of the chemistry between them I was at peace with it. My boyfriend said it reminded him of the scene in Pompeii where two characters embrace and look at each other instead of the pyroclastic flow. Not to mention if they survived their fate would be up in the air and maybe their relationship would hit snags if the past, the events leading up to Galen's death, was brought up. So them dying like that clears up all loose ends and gives them a happily ever after that no one can take away from them.

I thought Vader's line to Kernick(sp?) about choking on aspiration/ambition was funny and I feel it's something that Anakin might have said; at least in TCW.


And, oh man, the scene with Vader just slaughtering those poor Rebels as they at first try to escape, get the attention of other Rebels so they can give them the plans and try to fend him off was wicked cool I think that's the only time in the movie I was worried that they wouldn't succeed even though I knew logically they would succeed so that scene gets tons of bonus points for suspense and actually getting me to doubt that those poor Rebels would succeed.

I did like K2 and his brand of humor.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what Vader was in and why? I know some said it was a Bacta Tank but it seemed to be giving off some sort of vapor and the liquid drained out of it; not to mention if Vader had been severely injured recently I would think he would be healing elsewhere like Coruscant. If I didn't know any better I might say he was sleeping or in some sort of stasis but seeing how quickly he seemed to react to the news of a visitor it couldn't have been stasis.


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Lady_Misty - That was beautiful, especially the Pompeii reference.

 

I went again yesterday after a relative took over at my aunt's side last night. It's even better on the second viewing.

I can't believe I didn't mention in my first set of comments how much I liked the explanation of the title -- rogue against the Rebel Alliance, not against the Empire. It was such a nice little twist.

Another thing that stood out for me this time was the relationship between Chirrut and Baze. That's a great, great piece of cinematographic writing. "I don't need luck, I have you."

Also, I'm pretty sure that there's a scene similar to Chirrut walking among the laser bolts without being hit in one of those medieval epics I mentioned earlier, but for the life of me I can't remember which one.

And again, half-insane, mostly vaderized, totally paranoid Saw Gerrera. The moment when he unplugs his life support system when the shock wave arrives upon him. *goosebumps*

A place I'd really like to know more about if the trading outpost in the asteroid belt where Cassian first appears in the beginning of the movie. I hope that's a place we see again in other material.

Am I the only one to think that Jyn's alias being Lianna is not entirely a coincidence?

After Jyn says "it's easy if you don't look up", she finds herself climbing up very tall, very steep cliffs and towers not once but twice. Oh the irony.

I need to get my hands on the novelisation now.

PS: It's a lot easier to ignore the subtitles when you can't read them