ST The Even More Magniloquent New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

The twist could be that Snoke was an ancient grey Jedi who instituted the more dogmatic rules the Jedi of Anakin's era followed. In essence Snoke tainted the teachings long ago, pulling the Jedi away from the spiritual side of things. So upon his return, he uses his own more twisted version of Luke's teachings to tempt Ben to his side. Ben could initially see it as 'doing what has to be done' for peace and order but has been going further and further into darkness. This is why Luke is searching for the First Temple...the Jedi will always be vulnerable to the manipulations of Snoke and those like him unless he learns the wisdom of a time before their teachings influenced the old Jedi order.

 

Very interesting info coming out today! I think the idea that the traditional labels of "Jedi" and "Sith" are fading away is something they've been developing and seems to fit a trend--characters that use the Force but aren't Jedi or Sith. I like this possible new direction and look forward to seeing how it develops in the next couple movies.

 

See my previous and only post on this matter where I say the same exact thaing. Truth be told I am RJ.

 

wasn't it obvious from the beginning? my first post about the topic I said that it's debatable about what Last or final means.
Matthew Thomason‏ @ResDolph 3h3 hours ago

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@rianjohnson I guess what everyone was expecting was like, the last *remaining* Jedi. But "final" sounds different. Like this is the end.
Rian Johnson‏Verified account @rianjohnson 3h3 hours ago

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@ResDolph nope, both words can have either meaning.

 

Ok, I consume crow for the whole synonym thing. He was joshing. Sld and Pied Piper, you were correct. However, the rest of the speculation about balance, the shadow and the evolution of the Jedi still stands imo.

 

Yes it meant nothing but started an interesting conversation.

 

Well, as even RJ says, both words can have either meaning .

 

So what your saying is, keep asking Rian questions on twitter and hope he responds with at least something vague-ish enough so we have a reason to generate 10 pages of discussion to break up the incessant boredom caused by Celebration gating all new information?

*opens twitter*....Challenge accepted

 

Considering the fact that some of the first lines of dialogue in the first movie in this trilogy are "Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force", we should be skeptical at the thought of the Jedi Order ending anytime soon.

 

agree with you that all these talks of balance and evolution of the Jedi are interesting and may lead somewhere, although personally i think they'll still be called Jedi, but no offense to those who has a different opinion ...it's just that i thought RJ's was so obviously playful...and seeing everyone freaking out here for a throaway tweet...

I still believe the Jedi are the good guys of the GFFA. a new order will rise and bring peace to the galaxy IMO. I dont believe they will challenge that. Rules of the order may evolve, but at the deep core the Jedi way is the winning way (in universe at least)

 

I knew he was being playful - but I did think it might have been in the "here's a bombshell" way.

D'oh!

Though weirdly, the discussion really applied when they dropped the title in the first place. Oh well! Shows how much I know!

 

i think we need a trailer one month left!!!!

 

"To give birth to the ancient in a new time is creation. This is the creation of the new, and that redeems me. Salvation is the resolution of the task. The task is to give birth to the old in a new time." -- Carl Gustav Jung

I'd be up for Luke, having gone searching for the first Jedi Temple, emerging from the rabbit hole with seeds of ancient knowledge that he wants to plant, grow, and nurture, in order to save the galaxy.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_Dai_Bendu

 

Personally, I think the idea of Luke finding ancient lore at the temple that shines a light on the way forward - and a new /old philosophy for the new Jedi to embrace is going to happen in one form or another.

 

Yeah the Jedi can just change their methods a bit without becoming a new group. Religions do this all the time in the real world. There is something to be said for the Jedi struggling and being reborn as the same group but stronger as opposed to just becoming a new group that can just as easily still be Jedi. The galaxy knows and respects Jedi. The Jedi and Sith have this intimate connection over the centuries, it is not all gonna end cause Luke after trying and failing is like "eh bleep it I am starting the........not Jedi, the Nedi" that seems strange that anyone would make a new group when you have so much lore and reach galacticly as the Jedi.

 

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/839300875545780224

*makes brief eye contact with everyone*

Anyhow. I forced myself to listen to the latest MSW podcast. Based on their rampant, shots in the dark speculation about Rey and Snoke, I would be pretty dubious about the idea that they're secretly holding back a trove of scoops. I think they just don't have much without the shot list leaks they got last time. Likely they will get some minor stuff when the kids books and other side products get closer to production, but I think Disney/Lucasfilm successfully locked things down this time.

ps. put me down for bio-hexacrypt having to do with cryptography, not a burial site.

 

I'd see it more like a new philosophy that grew out of the old order - like a kind of schism - but you are probably right.

And I do see what people are talking about when they say "the Jedi only just returned and now they're gone?!" It would be a bit strange.

I think the key thing is that this line of speculation - Luke finding a new (or old/ forgotten) way forward for the Jedi - was in play before we knew the title, then once we knew the title and IMO it still stands now.

 

I don't think Luke needs to overhaul the Jedi to much and revert them to an older philosophy. The one from the PT was fine but was not executed very well was the issue. There does not need to be some secret better way of being Jedi, just look at what made the PT ones fail, that being their getting to distant from the rest of the galaxy and being naive and blindly trusting authority as opposed to taking an active rule in the Republic rather than being just almost passerby's when it came to the affairs of the Republic, and then go from there. The Jedi overall in the PT where still good and their philosophy was always played as pure and right, the issue was their, apathy is not the right word, but their lack of direct involvement in anything. Or in other words the Jedi just need a leader that is not in power for 900 years and is senile. I don't hate Yoda but I think a lot of the order's issues stem from him.

 

I dunno. I guess for me, a lot depends on what RJ took (if anything, to be fair) from the Bly book and if those are the lines he's thinking along.

 

I think Disney is probably going to start phasing out lightsabers, too. What was once considered "elegant" and "for a more civilized age" has become an archaic novelty of a decidedly non-gun weapon that you have to either 1) build, 2) be lucky enough to stumble upon, at which point you immediately endure a spiritually crushing and traumatic acid trip, or 3) receive as a gift.

 

Leaked next topics on the agenda:

- Replacing wooden Pinocchio by a steel Pinocchio who never lies
- Cindarella to be replaced by a Danny Trejo lookalike wearing moonboots all day
- Jack Sparrow riding a steamboat
- Alice in Wonderland Kim Wong Chan in Disney Land suffering from insomnia
- Donald Duck always being calm and speaking understandable
- Goofy goes Einstein. No more fails
- Micky Mouse being a serial killer

 

Will the Jedi disappear with Luke? Will the Dark forces of Snoke enslave the Galaxy and begin.a reign of Evil?

Tune into the next episode of.....

 

Time for Disney to do this with their audience:

Spoiler

 

Yeah, I've felt for a while now that this is headed towards the discovery of hidden knowledge. This goes all the way back to the Mortis episodes on TCW. The events in Rebels build on that, and the new canon books are too. We even have Daisy saying she's not sure she is technically a Jedi. I think all the angst over the name is deliberate manipulation by the filmakers though. These will be the "new Jedi" Snoke fears.

 

Well, the name isn't THAT important, but don't get played. The filmakers are playing this up to build hype. They would not basically give away the main plot point before even a teaser trailer is released.