Saga Did TFA make the OT pointless?

As much as I can't stand thrawn(Him being in the TV show is fan service-y. He feels like he belongs in Star Gate or Star Trek. Which is funny because that is how the EU basically was like) he was great. Should have used an original villain for Rebels however...

 

To be clear, the only reason any of the Big 3 are sad in the ST is because of one event that impacted all of their lives on a deep, deep level. It's not like it's just how they ended up over years of folly.


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Well, I don't mind spoilers, so feel free to PM the scripts for TLJ and Episode IX.
Would love to know what happened.

 

I think they explained it pretty clearly in TFA


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Well, if Han and Leia indeed left their son with Luke, and Ben in turn destroyed the Temple and Luke's Order, and murdered the other students, I would say that is a pretty sad and disappointing legacy for the big three. Luke became a coward and Han is a deadbeat dad.

Yea, so The Thrawn Trilogy was better.

 

Han and Leia's decision to leave their Force sensitive son to train with the only remaining Jedi in the galaxy was hardly disappointing. One would think that is the natural course of action. And it's a bit pre-emptive to call Luke's isolation cowardly, especially if he truly believes that the cause of the galaxy's problems is the very existence of the Jedi, of which he is one. His isolation is likely to be what he legitimately believes is the galaxy's only hope.

The Skywalkers seem to have no problem with removing themselves from a situation when it becomes clear to them that they themselves are the problem.

 

Then it's worse than cowardice, since it goes against the very point of his character.

 

I kind of wish I made the title something like "The mishandled impact of the big 3 in the ST" or something.

I'm not good at making thread titles.

 

Which is...?

 

"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father."

"You've failed, your Highness. I'm a Jedi, like my father before me."

 

There is a number of RotJ sequels that didn't do what TFA did. I'm surprised you're not aware of them.

And to prove that they could have done a sequel without destroying the ending of RotJ, I present this simple pich: The New Republic and Luke's Jedi Order face a new and different threat, not a rehashed Empire.

To pretend that the transparent soft-reboot approach of TFA is the ONLY way to do a RotJ sequel is absolute insanity.

 

TFA is not and was never was going to be a sequel to the end events of ROTJ except in the loosest sense possible.

Lucas' story ST story almost certainly was going to be that.

TFA is simply a reset when it comes down to it and bizarrely one that thematically arguably has more resonance with the PT than the OT for that reason.

"The New Republic and Luke's Jedi Order face a new and different threat, not a rehashed Empire."

Yes. With Luke and Leia at the head of this Jedi Order along with the children of Leia and Han as the new main protagonists.

There are many possible sequels that move on from that story. Even ones that include a faction from the Empire and the Sith (both of which in essence return in TFA).

 

Except what we do know about Lucas' sequel story contradicts what you're saying. The rest is wishful speculation on your part.

We're discussing what TFA did here in terms of the lasting legacy of the heroes' actions, not in terms of whether TFA was 'original' enough for you. The OP's complaint is that TFA undermines the victory and peace the OT heroes created - they did not live happily ever after. If this is truly the feeling behind the OP, and not just another opportunity to bash TFA, then they have to be consistent with that complaint. Any enemy, new or not, that creates new battles for the galaxy renders Luke's victory pointless.

What new and different threat would they have faced? In Legends, they fought the remnants of the Empire for years, and when that was done they fought the barbarian fantasy trope Vong for years, and then years later after they were all dead, there was still Sith and an Empire ruling over everything. Please don't say that you're advocating for the Vong or an alien invasion to come in. That would go much further than any imperial resurgent threat in crushing the point of beating Palpatine, the aliens would be coming regardless of who was sitting on the 'throne'.

 

True, but it was the only thing he felt at home being. He didn't want to be a general anymore. He didn't want to be a diplomat. He spent his time running a business and gambling. Now he's left all that behind and went back to a time where he had no responsibilities other than to himself and Chewie.

I think Han wasn't interested in having more children, especially given his comments about there being too much Vader in the one they did have. As to Ben and Jacen, it really depends on how much Abrams and Kasdan were aware of Jacen Solo's existence and journey. It could be entirely coincidental.

 

I'd also add that he didn't go back to doing the same thing in the same way as before ANH. He was captain of a ship perhaps 10 times bigger than the Falcon & had a much larger crew (until they were presumably killed by Rathtars!). Then when it came time to step back in & help in a righteous cause he did exactly that. As well as risk his life to save his son. We should also keep in mind that prior to TFA there was an uneasy peace & type of Cold War brewing for many years. So what would Han do in that kind of period? If there was open war I could see him remaining in the Republic & being a general. During peace time though, I think he'd just be bored. No surprise to me that he eventually turned to car racing & then a lager scale smuggling operation. He ain't the type for meetings & diplomacy.

Completely disagree. I do get the criticism of SKB as a repeated plotline but one thing I do love is that the Republic has been dealt such a savage blow, & has possibly even been wiped out. For the first time in the Saga we could have a period where there's no galactic government. This is potentially very interesting in terms of story. We'll have two factions fighting to fill a power vacuum, rather than a rebel force trying to depose the government, as we've already seen previously.

Big assumption. I think he's gone to the First Jedi Temple for a very clear & very important reason. TBC.

Leia wasn't ostracized by the Resistance, she built the Resistance. I presume you meant the Republic though. I think it's actually a great development bcs it implies that the Republic were full of peace-loving hippies who would appease the FO & avoid conflict at all costs. Allowing them the time to build themselves up into such a dangerous faction. To me it's more a case of Leia rejecting the Republic & having the b**** to stand up to the FO. Which is totally in character for her & makes her a hero all over again. Now the Republic have been decimated & she's all that stands between the people of the galaxy this new evil regime. To me Han turned into a great man who dropped most of his cynicism & came around completely to accept truths that he openly mocked back in the OT, & I'm sure we'll find out just how vital Luke's quest for knowledge has been at that temple.

 

I'll go with Han legitimately working for King Prana but unfortunately having to get money from Kanjiklub and the Guavian Death Gang at the time.

And hoping that Han wasn't ostracized from the Racing League because of being Vader's Son in Law.

At least until stories tell us otherwise.

 

I'd say yes it did make it irrelevant as it largely rebooted the OT plot. Luke was merely Yoda 2.0 Han and Leia's marriage didn't last, and Abrams said up a retread of the empire vs rebellion.

And I would say from a marketing perspective it was a smart idea as OT nostalgia was and is very strong.

 

I understand this happens but that part felt a little ham fisted. I don't remember it being there too long however..

 

Both "OT" and "PT"!

 

Hi. Since the other thread was locked, I decided to pop in here.

I don't think the OT was rendered pointless, I hope not. The stories themselves I mean. But the triumph and nice tight wrap we got in ROTJ, TFA for me made that if not an exercise in futility -- tragically short-lived. I really could've done without the whole Kylo Ren thingy -- making him H/L's son compounded the factor of their relationship after ROTJ. As one of my OTPs, I was wishing for better for those two.

 

This. TFA basically reset everything back to its pre-ANH state for all intents and purposes.

And there is no need for an Empire 2.0 in this trilogy. While conflict is unavoidable in any movie, why not have a villain outside of the whole Empire/Republic dynamic inserted in there instead of Empire redux? The Black Fleet Trilogy or Vong arcs from the EU come to mind as examples of how the conflict could have come without repeating the OT (and in my opinion doing a horrible job at it).

 

Hopefully Snoke does something interesting that forces the Resistance and FO to team up to stop. Or give him an interesting back story.

 

Yeah, but I'm not sure how long he and Chewie had that ship and from the sounds of it, Han needed a crew to deal with the Rathars, given how dangerous they are.