ST Episode IX Story Discussion

I was waiting for a cool Saber fight. I had a feeling from the start that the Luke and Kylo thing was going to be really brief. Wish it went on for a few minutes before Kylo realized Luke wasn't really there.

 

I'm going to assume this is the thread we can vent in, although i'm going to try to stay spoiler-free. Nobody should be in it that hasn't seen the film as it takes knowing what happened to be able to ask What Next. First, allow me to say that it was a decently made film. It didn't particularly suck on its own merits. But it absolutely failed on being the middle chapter of a trilogy in a Saga. The first half, in particular, was top-notch. The back half, where RJ ran the Saga completely off the rails in one of the most overbooked endings in history? Yikes.

What Next Indeed. All I can say is.. you thought my theories were bad.. Look what we actually got :/.

The simple fact is... I don't care about either Rey or Ren on their own merits. Both are largely nothingburgers. That's part of the point. The point of a Saga is for them to transcend their upbringing and become larger than life(usually through pain), either for good or bad, not wallow in it and accept it.

RJ managed to do one singular thing for me.. not make me care at all where this goes next. No wonder Trevorrow was fired. Lol @ the guy who has to follow this up. Pretty much all forward inertia was burned off, you're left with a scenario where the punchline of The Saga is basically to

Spoiler

kill off the last of the EVIL Skywalkers in favor of Random Nobodies that apparently are going to restart The Jedi so this thing can go on forever.

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Just... I really just don't care.

If as Kopy says the central theme to this movie is letting go, well.. done. But the future I move to aint necessarily this Saga or this IP. And that's a shame. Star Wars basically became Just Another Space Movie for me. THANKS RIAN.

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Ya... i'm sure I could make up some theories, but it would smack too much of what the Rey Solo'rs tried to do after TFA came out. When the ship sails, and for good or bad it clearly went in a very Random Direction, trying to undo the damage would basically be admitting they messed up. And boy did they. Not saying the backlash couldn't cause some changes, but i'm not holding my breath. They clearly want to end The Skywalker bloodline to end 9.

I just find it interesting that I like the film on its own merits, its just not much of a middle chapter of a SW trilogy movie. Its like fan fiction and was completely overbooked. Good on its own, but man it took the legs right out of the franchise.

 

The world is a whole lot less predictable than these movies. There have been interesting, unpredictable moments here and there, but the overall outcome has been way too predictable for my taste. We're unlikely to get a moment similar to "I'm your father!" here.

Ever since I first saw Rey and Kylo Ren in TFA (about 5 minutes in), I've been hoping they'd go with something more interesting than just clearing the way for those two to clash in the final movie, but so far that looks to be exactly what's happening. I'd love to be wrong, and I'd love for IX to be something more than Luke's martyr death leading to a rebuilt rebellion, which culminates in Rey vs Kylo, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Time will tell though.

 

LIke what though? Someone wrote that Rey will become pregnant with Kylo's child. No,please Noooooooooooooo!!! That's the one taboo is that they somehow become a couple.

 

What I am hoping for or was hoping for previously? Right now, I'm fairly certain it's just going to be Rey killing Kylo. That's it. I don't think there's any point in redeeming him considering there's no common threat to face anymore. Of course, they could still end up doing it, with the whole couple thing happening, but that would be even worse than just doing the most obvious thing of simply having Rey win. I may be looking for surprises, but that one.. ouch!

Previously, I was hoping for anything surprising or unpredictable. I just didn't want it to be the most obvious route, which has always been Rey vs Kylo, or maybe Rey vs Snoke, after dispatching or converting Kylo. For example, I'd have been shocked, and pleasently surprised, if any of the old heroes had survived the ST.

 

Something I heard, I don't know if anyone else has heard it, the kid at the end is Luke Skywalker - reborn!!!

 

Something I heard, I don't know if anyone else has heard it, the kid at the end is Luke Skywalker - reborn!!!

 

Nah, I don’t believe that. I think the ROTJ draft concept of Force ghosts returning to help out during the finale would be cool. Even if it’s just Luke.

 

Well what we know is this, the Resistance has about a dozen survivors but has "friends" in the Outer Rim that didn't bother to show up to try to save them (not exactly reliable friends), Leia will have some between movie death out of necessity (R.I.P.) and the last Skywalker is the leader of the new "Empire"

My guess is had Carrie not died they would have had her confront Kylo face to face and it would have been an emotional rather than a physical battle, sadly we won't get to see that.

How do we get all that tied in to a movie with a heroic ending now? Episode 9 HAS to have a happy ending as it is the last movie in this trilogy it is the journey to get there that has to be sold to the audience. Abrams has his work cut out for him to be honest and I hope he does a good job.

 

They have no idea where this is going lol. Any idea that they had any type of real plan with these movies got blown up last night lol. I think they figure someone could miracle up a story to continue 8 no matter what they put out.. so just shoot their load. It now makes complete sense to me why Trevorrow was fired. 8 almost felt like it was built by someone who really hated 7 and really hated the Star Wars trilogy structure. But it was there for a reason and tends to separate Star Wars from being Just Another Space Movie.

As stated... I liked the movie on its own merits, but man it just killed the franchise. Seeing the Petulant Man-Boy vs Queen of the Randoms in 9, isn't high on my to-do list.

 

What now? Simple. “Hello Rian? Bob Iger here....we need to talk”.

 

What now? Simple. “Hello Rian? Bob Iger here....we need to talk”.

 

Whilst RJ has made a good solid stand alone movie, he's ignored the fact that TLJ is the middle chapter in the trilogy.

If they'd only done the sensible thing and rewrote the ending after we lost Carrie the whole thing wouldn't be such a mess. What they could've done...


Kylo attacks the Crait base as in the film, Luke shows up and everything is the same. As the survivors board the Falcon a squad of Stormtroopers turn up and open fire, blaster rounds ping off the Falcon but one finds a target. Leia is hit in the back and the others carry her aboard the Falcon. Return to the film as it is with Luke's projection and then we see Luke on Ahch-To. Luke slumps to his bunk, breathless, then Yoda appears. "What you must do, know now you do", Luke nods and collects his pack. Cut outside and the bay where Luke's X-Wing lays sunken under the sea, Luke walks to the edge and closes his eyes...Yoda's music from TESB starts to play and the X-Wing
lifts out of the sea. It's battered and doesn't look complete but it will do for what Luke needs of it. Cutback to the Falcon and Leia lays in a bunk (possibly using earlier cut material cgi'd into the Falcon), Leia dies with Rey the others around her. Rey's crying when she hears Leia's voice say "don't worry, the Force will be with us, always" (taken from any source they can get it).... The End!!!

 

My first request/wish for where we go from here in IX...

Keep the number of new characters to a minimum -- and don't split everyone up. I really liked TLJ, but my primary criticism is that there were too many characters and one too many parallel stories in the middle. With a longer running time (apparently he cut nearly an hour from the film?), it would have worked better, as each of the plotlines in the middle felt stretched a bit too thin to me.

 

I think he just doesn't care. There was a level of hate for Star Wars and its tropes as a subtext in this film that I never expected to see in a Star Wars film.

Nobody saying 'I have a bad feeling about this.'
Nobody saying 'NOOOOOOO!'

The amount of haterade coming his way is going to be fun. He was clearly the wrong person for this franchise, and its clear Kathleen Kennedy letting the dogs roam free to do whatever they want, isn't a good look for the franchise. I actually find it likely that they started to realize what was happening late in production on this film, and then Kennedy started to correct and be more hands on with both Solo and 9.

And i'm not too fond of the guy, but Abrams at least loves Star Wars and if you say nothing else about TFA you can say it continued the Saga and did what it was supposed to. Not so much with this movie.

 

Finn wakes up for real from his medipod (haven't seen it yet) and realizes it was a dream. IX is really a do-over of VIII and X is the real IX.

That or some of what we think are absolutes in TLJ are not really absolutes. But then, instead of going into a movie feeling like "I can't wait to see what happens next" we go in thinking "I can't wait to see how they fix what happened before".

I'm afraid that IX will not harbor much anticipation and may be a little too little too late. At least from what I am hearing.

Sorry for this last minute edit. Was watching the movie Lorenzo's Oil about competitive inhibition in lipid enzymes and something hit me.

Could Rey and Kylo be........the........same person? Two halves or souls of the same person? Did the Force actually create a female duplicate of Kylo years later and that is why they are considered two halves of the light and dark and part of the yin-yang?

@LastJediKnight-thought you would like that idea. It's up your ally.

 

They better have a timeskip, is all I'm thinking. Frankly, I really don't know where they'll go from here. But in all fairness, the fact that their not including a timeskip aggravates me is a testament that the SW movie formula was in kind of a rut.

Honestly, I can't think of much they'll do that I can't find in some EU Comic or Story, so I understand why they had such trouble coming up with the ST storyline. Then again, my imagination's never been the best....

And I'm not sure what the factions are gonna do, the FO is/should be in chaotic shambles after Kylo's ruse regarding Rey and Snoke, and the Resistance/rebellion is based out of the Falcon.....I was hoping to see advanced NR units arrive to take out the walkers and aid in the Crait effort but it was like this movie was a middle finger to anybody's average expectations for SW.

Speaking of, I don't know if I wanna meet the 'allies' of the Resistance if they hear a call for help but don't show. Either they're cowards, mired by indecision/corruption a la Rogue One or Rebels S3 Finale or are under attack from other FO fleets. Boyega said IX is gonna be the 'war to end all wars' but I really don't know where they can go now beyond a huge galaxy wide battle that lasts the entire episode and features a world that acts as Kylo's new stronghold with new walkers, skilled Knights of Ren and a showdown with Snoke.

I'm hoping we go into it a la Ep. III, the galaxy is back at warring but the New Empire and the New Republic are fielding all new technologies to make up for their losses and to finish the other off once and for all, but at this point, I won't hold my breath.

I maintain that CGI complaints are what brought us here.

 

I think its beyond fixing from a purely technical standpoint at this point. Abrams will probably slap something together which involves a new Death Star Starkiller Base that Ren is building like a couple of years later. Rey Reigns, Queen of the Randoms, Breaker of Franchises, and her merry band of Random Padawans

(even though she never bothered to even learn how to be a Jedi, so how can she train them? Who Cares!)​

will find a way to take down the 'big gun'(hate that term) and free the galaxy while she confronts and defeats Ren.

I fully expect they will never try to retcon the damage, just sort of move past it like they didn't just kill Star Wars and hope for the best.

All I can say is you guys thought my theories were bad... and what we got was so much worse :/. At least I love Star Wars and it would have continued The Saga.

RJ clearly hates SW, and made no bones about it with this film. It was so past the mark i'd almost put it as the most Expensive Fan Fiction film ever made.

What was headscratching, though, was they continued the firing squad storytelling of Rogue One, to the point where the FBI would classify RJ as a serial killer. I mean, its almost like, who didn't die? By the time they got done the Rebels can fit on a Falcon, and the TFO is reduced to like 6 AT-AT's and one big cannon.

Holdo? That's all they were going to do with the character? All of which would have been better suited to either Ackbar or Dameron?
Phasma. Pointless character and simply shows up to die.
Rose? I guess Kate Winslet aged out of that part. Of course.. then they had to make the death ambiguous with Finn dragging her in.
Luke? If you're going to pass the torch... 'showing up' for a fight and punking out the main villain by not actually being there? Not the way to really give him that heat. And then dying for no reason. Oooookkkk.

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Snoke. LOL. We barely knew ye. Oh wait, we didn't know you at all​

I haven't seen someone try to pave over their predecessor this bad since Trump.

The end result being, who exactly is left to tell Episode 9 with? Unless its going to be the last of The Saga, there aren't enough people alive for even a halfway decent story.

 

I've seen a lot of statements to this effect lately, and they're patently ridiculous. There's a strong undertone of "no true Scotsman" here.

Johnson, Abrams, and Edwards are all Star Wars fans who grew up watching and loving the films. As with a great many filmmakers of my generation (Abrams is a bit older; I'm the about same age as the other two), Star Wars had a strong impact on them.

It's very clear just from reading discussions on this board that no two Star Wars fans have exactly the same vision as to what the saga should be. Sometimes fans are very divided on that issue. The fact that some fans intensely dislike Johnson's take on Star Wars does not mean that he hates it or that he doesn't understand it. According to some fans, apparently even George Lucas doesn't understand Star Wars correctly.

All three directors have great respect for Star Wars, and have treated it with reverence. Obviously this is depending on their own interpretation. But whether you personally like the end result or not, their decisions come from a place of great admiration for the Star Wars films.

You're free to hate the film all you want, but accusations that the director hates Star Wars needs some strong evidence to back it up, such as a quote from Rian Johnson where he says "I hate Star Wars; it's such a stupid series of films, and my lifelong dream is to be able to direct a Star Wars film so that I can crap all over it and ruin it for those nerds forever. Long live Star Trek!"

I did miss hearing this line, but I don't know if it was an intentional omission, or if it was in one of the sequences that was cut from the film. Apparently, a lot of material was cut after the score had been written.

Is this seriously a Star Wars trope? Certainly not on the same level as "I have a bad feeling about this."

Rejoicing in hate being directed towards somebody over a work of fiction is extremely petty. At the end of the day, it's still just a movie.

That is incredibly unlikely, considering that they approved his pitch for an entirely new trilogy of films, before TLJ was even released. The film has already received a phenomenal response from critics. As long as it does well at the box office, the bosses will be happy.

 

Star Wars Trilogy movies are some of the most structured movies in Cinema. They aren't rocket science. Its that very structure that RJ is like.... no need to even be, or pretend to be, a Scotsman. Why should he be hemmed in by such hoaky and limiting structure?

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But most are united on what they *shouldn't be*.

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Fans may not have cared for the Prequels, but there was absolutely no mistaking them for Saga Films. The problems with this film are in a completely different zipcode and realm than those films had.​

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The movie speaks for itself and is strong enough evidence.

And accusations that these decisions come from a place of great admiration for Star Wars, needs strong evidence to back them up. Have any? I don't know the guy, I just see a film he made littered with hate for all of the standard Star Wars tropes and characters(Luke Skywalker wanting to murder his student is how only the most cynical of people view that character), with a director screaming through dialogue to leave all of the standard SW stuff in the past and everything old go. That tells me he has no great admiration for SW, only the opposite, and views them with disdain in his pursuit of being a sensitive arteest. The movie is the movie. He said what he said through art. There is no greater window into his dark soul, and no greater indication that he was very very wrong for this job. What next, are we going to have Tarantino make The Wizard of Oz? How about putting Zack Snyder on a Care Bears franchise?

If you don't like the formula that surrounds certain movies... DO. NOT. MAKE. THEM. Don't ruin it for everybody else.

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Saying it wasn't an intentional omission would be to state that Rian Johnson doesn't know Star Wars.

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Ya, it is. But its too hoaky for a Rian Johnson film or something.

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Actually.. its one, with the possibility of two more.

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So? Lol @ that.

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We'll see. I expect a strong opening weekend. Its whether it has legs or not that will tell the tale. I don't think this has anywhere near the level of repeat viewing of a TFA. In fact, there is a good possibility it implodes on the backend.

 

Rian Johnson says the "bad feeling about this" line is in the movie:

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/941235366853529600

 

Where do you see the plot going in episode 9? What plot threads from 7 and 8 should be picked up and developed for the finale? I think we're going to see the First Order's new empire split in two! Hux hates Kylo and so we'll see those two split off into factions. Meanwhile, the new Rebellion will have a chance to take the split empire down. Kylo may take on an apprentice, but we'll also see his Knights of Ren become his new Praetorian Guard (they may not be called that, but serve a similar function). Rey will also take on an apprentice -- she may even have more than one. I think E8 suggested that the old rules no longer apply. Poe and Finn will now be in charge of the Rebellion. Ultimately, Rey will have to defeat Kylo Ren, who will increasingly become a cybernetic monster like Darth Vader.

 

Sorry for the double post. The forum is acting weird. Please delete one of my threads!

 

I'm sticking with the idea that there's a connection between Rey and Kylo that will again be a surprise. No "Reylo" because that theory has to be treated in the way that Reysolo or Reysky was...to knock out the "obvious". The potential "romance" (yuck) will be the hot theory for the next two years.

No clones, no immaculate conception, no reincarnation (although that is sadly not out of the question). But my idea of the two souls.

And I suspect we may see Rey train an apprentice who is captured by Kylo and begins to turn to the dark side but of course does not. But that's a LOT to cover.

It's almost as if they need to make two more movies.

I also think it is sadly possible that both Kylo AND Rey will die in Episode IX. The only way to keep the balance fully is to destroy both parts of it. Without the Jedi, there can be no balance? What if there are no Jedi and no dark side at all?

 

You can't make original different star wars movies, like vastly different, because then it ceases being "star wars"-ish, but starts becoming Star Trek, or Valerian, etc. You have to still have the eternal fundamentals that identify it as such -- force powers, siths, Jedis, tie fighters, etc. But you can certainly create original storylines and characters, explore different themes like the wasted opportunity of exploring Finn, a dehumanized stormtrooper discovering his humanity, and such types of ideas that you often find in the old EU books.