The Last Jedi Discussion Thread - **UNTAGGED SPOILERS WITHIN**

divapilot I'm pretty sure that around the time Finn and Rose leave the fleet Poe says that they have enough fuel for 18 hours. Later in the movie there's a mention of six hours left. What I'm not sure about is the idea that Rey's story arc takes place in parallel with the Resistance fleet arc. I mean, the First Order would need some time to regroup after the destruction of Starkiller base before they could counter-attack, right? So my guess would be that Rey's arrival on Ahch-To takes place several days before the Resistance evacuate D'Qar, and that some of her interaction with Luke should be understood as a flashback relative to the beginning of the movie.

 

Yeah, I think there's a bit of time dilation going on. What Chyn says is about what I was thinking.

I felt that way the first time, but the second time it made me laugh. He's so passive-aggressively drinking the milk.


Someone asked on Facebook what people thought was the funniest part, and I was just laughing reading the whole thread. I don't know that I can pick!

 

It's not that (that was funny, I agree)...it's their mammary glands.

 

I have been reading audience reviews over at Rotten Tomatoes and I can say they are definitely not done by bots or people paid to make reviews. Some of these fans are writing some very long and detailed reviews. They are very knowledgeable about the SW galaxy including the EU. I would say it is easily 50/50 when it comes to good and bad reviews.

I agree with an article I read online that says there are two kinds of fans. There are the people who like seeing movies and are not necessarily hardcore SW fans and then there are people like us who read every book, write fanfiction, do cosplay or make fan art. I think the people who don't like the movie belong to the second group. We have a lot invested into the franchise. We bought the 100 plus SW novels and action figures. We get all of our EU favorite characters taken away and now these wonderful people are replaced with a space janitor, a bad guy that gets killed by a wayward lightsaber, and fish nuns. Heck, throw us hardcore fans a bone and give us Talon Karrde and crew instead of DJ. Give me a hint that Mara Jade existed...that wouldn't have been hard. Have some holocube in Luke's house that has a pretty redhead on it. Or give Tim Zahn a cameo at least.

Thank goodness for fanfiction.

 

I do think the most vocal of the hardcore fans are the people who hated it, because they (we) have the most invested, emotionally and monetarily. People who are casual fans can go 'eh' and it's over for them, it's not for us. But I think it's a bigger split than RT makes it seem. I know it's anecdotal, but I'm a member of a decent size Facebook group that is hardcore fans discussing it and the majority loved it. I've seen people loving it all over the internet.

What people liked and disliked is very subjective, of course, but for me, I've spent the last two years (maybe even 4) trying not to get too excited about where I thought things were going to go because I knew then it would set me up to not like it. I had thoughts and ideas, of course, I tried not to get too invested in any one idea. I think that's what let me go in with an open mind and I think a big part of the reason why I loved it.

I can completely understand being upset about the EU. I still love Mara Jade, and I love that she was married to Luke and my Ben is a Skywalker. But I also love the ST and I am enjoying all the new characters we get from it. I like to think of it as like the multiverse theory, there are infinite timelines that diverge. The ST is one version, the old EU is another, and I enjoy both.

 

Another reason things may look lopsided is the people who loved it say, "I loved it! Awesome movie!" And the people who hated it write a thesis paper on everything that is wrong with the ST and how it ruined their childhood.

I like the thought of a multiuniverse. In mine Luke marries Mara,the Vong War never happened and Jacen never turned darkside. It is my never ending story that I have been writing for six years. lol!

 

Exactly! Fanfic is just another universe that branched off!

 

Long live Fan Fiction!!!

 

I know this is kind of a weird question, but where are all the “old” species? Like ok, obviously humans, and Chewie and Ackbar have those races covered, but it seems every other race/species is new? Were there any Twi’leks Or Rodians or Hutts or Zeltrons or any of the other established species from the first 6 movies showing up in TFA or TLJ? Not a complaint; just wondering aloud.

 

That's crossed my mind as well, especially when we have this guy, who is clearly a Not!Ithorian.

 

I broke my rule of never reading comments on the Internet (that was a BIG mistake) and checked out the reviews on RT. I agree with J_L that a lot of negative reviews come from long-time EU fans, and, while I feel that "this isn't the movie I wanted to see" is a comment that says less about the movie than about the viewer, I can see the point they try to make.

However, what I find utterly pathetic is the sizable minority of reviewers whose issue with TLJ is that it features too many smart women, with some barely coded language about people of colour too. Right now on the first page of reviews, once of the criticisms about Holdo describes her as "Leia's lesbian lover". I kid you not.

And yeah, I'm appalled. This is 2017. Someone needs to get their insecurities under control, because the world is moving ahead without them.

 

I can totally get why people are upset about the way things went for our main 3 from the OT. It's a really bittersweet end to their story. The reason that I think I'm not as devastated (though still quite sad about some parts) is fanfic has me accustomed to thinking of every new story as a new universe. So my basic approach to the ST is "Great AU; love your OC's!" It's served me well. As for the ones griping that there aren't enough men... umm, sorry Poe and Finn -- you're both chopped liver I guess? But if people are going to be racist about it too, well. Guess there's no applying logic.

 

Holdo is Leia's lesbian lover? Weren't those two women checking out Poe like a couple of cougars in heat?

 

Weighs in with a controversial comment about women in Star Wars:

It is possible that I have missed them, but where are all the blondes?

Going off the observation that both Rey and the Rogue One protagonist being brunettes like Kathleen Kennedy, her comment that all girls should feel represented, that does not seem to spread to the fairer headed femmes.

I was struggling to recall any in TLJ, and when I eventually recalled that the Phasma actress is blonde, the waste of her character across two films, does feel a bit like there is a subtle attack going on.

 

Rogue One protagonist is called Jyn Erso.

 

Thanks. I could not remember either the character or actress' name.

 

I enjoyed TLJ. It wasn't a perfect movie, but I have a more positive than negative impression of it. I'll be seeing it for the third time next week.

The biggest thing that irked me was Vice Admiral Holdo's actions after she assumes command. IMO, there was no reason for her to not simply say, "Yes, I have a plan that won't kill us all," when Poe directly asked her (twice). She wouldn't have needed to give him details, but she never even acknowledged she had any sort of plan. But I've already vented about this on another part of the board so I'll just keep it at that and try to learn to let go of the past.

I really miss having OT- and PT-era aliens, even in the backgrounds of places like Maz's Castle and Canto Bight. I don't understand why they're not around. The Judgemental Fish Nuns were quite fun, though.

The seemingly instantaneous hyperspace travel times in the ST are still throwing me for a loop. It's hard reconciling that, particularly from a fanfic writing perspective, after the previous trilogies and Legends established that there are significant travel times between locations.

I loved the beginning and Poe's "holding for Hux" bit. I could watch the first ten minutes over and over and be perfectly content.

I'm trying to decide if I believe Poe is Force-Sensitive or not. I didn't think so until they showed him waking up from Leia's bowcaster-esque stun blast right after Rey starts screaming from Snoke's interrogation. I could easily be reading too much into what is nothing more than an editing choice, but I do have to wonder. Personally I hope he's not FS, since I'm more fascinated by the Ordinary People™ of the GFFA.

I think someone asked earlier in the thread-- Gareth Edwards is supposedly the Resistance fighter in the trench on Crait who tastes the ground and says it's salt. Coupling that with his Rogue One cameo, I hope they start inserting him in bit parts in every SW movie like Marvel does with Stan Lee.

 

Sith-I-5 Blondes in TLJ, from the top of my head: Gwendoline Christie (Phasma), Laura Dern (Holdo), Billie Lourd (Lt Connix), Amanda Lawrence (the Resistance commander who announces that Holdo is now in charge), the little girl with curly hair in the stables in Canto Bight. I'm sure there are more I can't remember now. I don't think that the representation of blondes in Hollywood movies is an important social issue though.

 

Chyntuck - thank you for the corrections.

I will have to review a pic of Holdo; my memory of Dern next to a sick tricerotops in Jurassic Park has her with much more vibrant golden hair than on show here. I could be mistaken though.

Edit: I found Leia's float back to safety, especially with that hairstyle, so reminiscent of Gary Oldman's turn at Dracula (same or similar hairdos), that I brushed away my health and safety concerns about opening doors with vacuums on the other side.

Come on though, at least get breathmasks.

Also, got deja vu seeing that Dark Side marker, a dark hole surrounded by flat seaweed, I feel sure that I have seen that before. The music or sound effects gave it a Sauron vibe. Very effective.

 

Lavender is the new blonde.

 

I LOVE YOU.

 

Yes! Thank you. Dern was not blonde in the film, so does not count as one there.

 

On the topic of her lavender hair, over in the JCC thread they were coming up with some hilarious names for Holdo. My favorite someone said was Vice Admiral Purple People Leader.

 

I had to watch the movie twice before I could really settle my thoughts about TLJ and after the second viewing I decided that I loved it! I am in the happy place of being able to see the flaws but also not mind them because what I did like was so awesome. There were lots of things I liked so I guess I just say the reason why I enjoyed it most: this film has taken us to new places for the first time. It stepped out of the shadow of the old films and decided it was going to take risks. Do all of them work? No, but the point is to go further, not to simply stick to what we know and love (having said that I would love to see some Rodians or Duros in the background). This might make me unpopular but I'm afraid that the hardcore fans are Star Wars's greatest strength but also its greatest weakness. So many of us are chasing after our idealistic vision of what the new films should be that when it doesn't meet our expectations we feel betrayed. However, each to their own, if you didn't like it that is fine, like I say there were a lot of things I wasn't happy with myself, I'm just happy that SW seems to be heading in the right direction.

 

Although I'll add some of us "hardcore fans" didn't like aspects of the EU. Sorry, I didn't like the Solo kids and loathe Mara Jade, so I was glad to see a lot of the EU wiped out. (Don't get me started on the travesty that was the NJO!) But I do think you've got your finger on it. Those who loved the EU weren't happy by the announcement that it was being wiped out, and I think that definitely colors their perception of the new Saga. No matter what was brought to the table, it won't fly because it's not the EU.

Another blonde for @Sith-I-5: Eirtae, one of the Royal Handmaidens of Naboo in TPM. IRL, natural blondes are a tiny, tiny percentage of the human population; in a massive galaxy, they may be even more rare.

I see a lot of harsh talk about Kathleen Kennedy and the need to get rid of her, because "she doesn't understand Star Wars." I can't help but feel there is an slight element of sexism there, too. She's been with Lucasfilm almost since the beginning, probably knows George & how he thinks as well as anyone else, and probably knows more about "what he originally intended" than any of the fan base. But the new SW and the death of the EU seems to be all her fault...in the eyes of some people.