A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

You're speaking in hypotheticals so I don't know. I wouldn't choose to write it that way?

It is not so crazy to me that a ranking officer would not want to share her plan with a hothead who's proven himself to be a liability, or that she'd be steadfast in executing a plan, and not interested in hearing alternatives. She's a Vice Admiral. All that's odd to me is that she doesn't go beyond telling him to trust Leia's advice and tell him "We've got this. There's a reason I'm the Vice Admiral."

Well I dunno - that could be interesting, but I like the tracker plot. I liked Canto Bight. I say once Finn and Rose leave the ship, the assumption is Finn's the mole, and Poe is going to get thrown in the brig for helping him until he tells Holdo she's got it all wrong and Finn and Rose worked out they're being tracked.

 

She essentially told him to shut up and sit down. Funny that Metallica Eye of the Beholder is playing as I'm typing this.
Doesn't Matter What You See
Or into it What You Read
You Can Do it Your Own Way
If It's Done Just How I Say

When did he do that? Had they not taken out the dreadnought, it would have been able to provide the obvious firepower needed to take the fleeing rebel fleet out. It is one thing to write Poe as making decisions that bring disaster, but then make his decisions actually bring disaster, not a saving grace.

That's horrible leadership. Plain and simple. And the plan was AWFUL. There looked be at least a couple dozen Star Destroyers in pursuit beyond the main ship (thankfully not a Dreadnought as well. Thanks Poe, you Mary Sue). If they pass by a planet, any military that had those types of resources would send at least one Star Destroyer to investigate. And obviously, it was very easy to find the base considering what we ended up with. Even Finn found it without effort and that guy is Jar Jar.

Actually, Poe would have then bypassed the ethical dilemma and removed the tracker from the fleet. Let's get out of here. Yay Poe. Your leadership skills are amazing. Punch it.

 

So... the symphonic score. I think I mentioned it like 50 pages ago or something iunno.

Having much more time to listen to it and having see the film again, it has grown on me like the score to TFA. Albeit, while I like Rose's theme more now, it hasn't become my favorite Star Wars theme the way that Rey's theme has.

I think my favorite cue is the Rebel fanfare followed by Rey's theme during the Battle of Crait, but the whole third act's score is great, with that leading into The Spark and The Last Jedi.

 

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/star-wars-the-last-jedi-score.50040588/

I haven't taken the time to really listen yet.

 

I'm too cowardly to venture outside the Lit forum.

 

Every forum except the JCC is pretty friendly. And that can be ID'd as a handful of people that act childishly. For the most part, I just ignore them.

What song is the most original? There are parts I like, but I hear themes from Kylo, the Emperor, etc mixed in.

 

I recall in year's past that their have been some epic well-crafted reviews of the new films in this part of the JCF. Can anyone recall any such posts of TLJ and point me in the general direction? Much obliged.

 

Speaking of certain puke-worthy agendas and this movie.

Toxic Masculinity Is the True Villain of Star Wars: The Last Jedi

In The Last Jedi, Poe is presented as a character who needs to stop with the mansplaining and learn from the more seasoned female leaders in his life.

He [Kylo Ren] is scary because he reminds us of the real-world men whose anger and frustration and sadness have curdled into something ugly inside of them, causing them to lash out at those they perceive to have robbed them of what they deserve.

That the decision that is best for the group is the one made by the group and its chosen leaders, not by the alpha male hero who thinks he knows best.

True gender diversity in media and in real life will come by recognizing that the system of patriarchy we live in benefits no one—not even the Poe Damerons of the world. (ha ha ha! )

It is a deeply empathetic story that explores the dangers of toxic masculinity, the competency of women, and the boxes we all must break out of to be free.

Clearly it wasn't written by a fan or was it? Because the last thing a true fan would want to see in an adventure tale, that SW actually is/was, is political agendas. Next in line - Rian's new trilogy and why communism is good!

 

I love No True Scotsmen.

 

Blah blah blah true fan.

You sound like one of those reactionary turds i wrote about a few pages back.

I love it when we have the so-called "true fans" to tell us how Star Wars shouldn't have political agendas, even though George Lucas has been pretty open about his political statements in these films. Ewoks as Viet Cong, Palpatine inspired in part by Nixon, the over War On Terror and Bushisms spouted by Anakin in ROTS. Come on.

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*sigh* Let's avoid the main problem. Instead - let's attack the messenger.

I didn't write the article. Please, do read the article. BTW:

 

I'm not attacking you.

I'm attacking your insinuation that anyone that attributed a political meaning to Star Wars isn't a 'True Fan'. I don't agree with pretty much anything from the article in question, but i'm not going to claim that i'm more of a fan that whoever wrote the article is.

 

[QUOTE="What Are The Odds, post: 54754099, member: 1422446"

I didn't write the article. Please, do read the article. BTW:
[/QUOTE]

I'm not taking issue with the article, i'm taking issue with your fragility around more overtly leftist politics entering Star Wars. People reading leftist and social progressive attitudes into Star Wars isnt new, nor is it controversial. Especially not around here.

For decades, Imperial speciesism(anti-alien pro-human policies) has been a stand-in for racism. Up until the Disney buy out, the Empire was also quite misogynist. The Rebels were the good guys that embraced sexual and special diversity.

To take issue with leftist politics in Star Wars is a problem is reactionary poodoo. They've always been there. That you werent able to pick up on them, and be offended by them i guess, before is no one's fault but your own.

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Why are you attacking me?

 

I'm attacking your position.

Crying "why are you attacking *me*?" just shows you cant defend your reactionary position.


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To address the "agenda", Kylo having shades of men's rights activists makes him a genuinely creepy and despicable villain in a way even Palpatine wasn't. Literally the point where Rey finally realizes he's irredeemable is when Kylo gives her a backhanded compliment ("You're nothing... but not to me") that's a classic negging technique. It reminds me of what an effective villain Kilgrave was in Jessica Jones by making similar allusions. That story makes Rey vulnerable and Kylo monstrous, and it was remarkably satisfying personally when Rey finally overcame his manipulations.

 

Are we really going to go here? Because it isn't going to go the way you think. It is, however, going to go exactly the way I think.

TLJ is after all written by a by a male mansplaining gender issues.

The political influences in TLJ are very Star Wars. That is to say, awful (more often than not).

But people on this forum really should not talk about politics here. It only results in Kylo Ren showing up and throwing and fit.

You'd really think having front row seats to Kylo murdering the father that was trying to redeem him would have been the big wake up call for her. Not too bright that Rey.

We literally now have Kylo trying to be redeemed in two of three episodes. It is why I'd put all my money on him not being redeemed (or even a redemption attempt) in Ep9. It would just be redundantly sad.

BTW, it might have made that whole throne room scene even better if instead of Snoke coming off as pure evil, he came off as the less evil of Kylo. If we saw Snoke actually trying to stop Kylo from seeking revenge on Rey at the top of the movie. This would have actually given Rey the tragedy of making things worse. Snoke was infinitely more competent, so Kylo in charge of the FO is about the best thing that could happen to the Rebels.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

If those politics exist in and are reflected by Star Wars, they're fair game for discussion, are they not? Should we not talk about Vietnam allusions in the OT, or comparisons between the Empire and the Nazi party? Particularly in-depth discussions should be moved to their own thread sure, but trying to stop people speaking their opinions is... not great.

Toxic masculinity, which you brought up.

 

Great question. Maybe reading the entire post and asking for elaboration where necessary would help you in this regard.

 

Sorry, I think I didn't quite get the context (lost in translation). You said "men's rights" with certain sarcasm? Or was it with confidence like the fragile author of the article?

 

Yup. This isn't going to go the way you think. I'm not a mod. As a mod, I'd let both sides discuss it on an even playing field. We don't have that here. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

 

Oh god Kylo is a PUA

 

"Kylo Ren" means "Nice Guy" in Old Corellian.

Everything makes sense now!!!

 

Why do people think writers work this way?

The article linked above is an interpretation of the film. Johnson likely didn't sit down with an "agenda," but a confluence of decisions in character building and casting came together such that a critic could use the film to discuss something else in a politically charged moment. Poe is a certain kind of film hero, whose behavior is specifically rebuked in the film; the fact that a good solid chunk of what we as consumers of stories consider "heroic" is gendered is something the writer picks up on and discusses.