A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

Star Wars was a Highlander prequel all along!

Details. Broadly, it's fine. He hates what he allowed to happen, thinks he failed the galaxy in helping to create Darth Vader 2.0 and that he was wrong to try and bring back the Jedi. He wants nothing more to do with it and walks away from his friends, allies and former students. Because he's a sad sack of ****.

Also he has the SACRED JEDI TEXTS!!!!1

See: The Last Jedi

 

That's my favorite line.

Luke you were just about to burn them bro

 

You're right. It is weird. And while I don't like the overall direction that they've taken the overall saga, in the way that it resets many of the events and accomplishments of the previous movies and it doesn't answer a lot of necessary questions about the state of the galaxy....

I have to judge the movie by what it's trying to accomplish. I can't blame Rian Johnson for being handed a bum rap by JJ and Kasdan. I think especially in the handling of Luke, he did the best thing he could by making as sensible an explanation for why Luke would be alone on this island while the galaxy was menaced by a reborn Empire. While it may not hold together fully for someone like us on these forums who wants fully fleshed out explanations, most of this stuff works for general audiences. What I keep coming back to is that these movies have to work for the general audience. And by and large, the general audience doesn't care much for the overall legacy of Luke Skywalker, as long as he has a generally heroic moment and becomes a bastion for hope and peace that's good enough. As much as they do love Luke, they're not so terribly invested that he start a New Jedi Order, as long as he passes down the torch of the Jedi to another generation that's enough. And I've made my peace with that by separating the movies from the overall universe, because I think TLJ is a very well done movie that based on the outline of what they were working with from TFA handles the characters and situations as well as they can, politics and overall character legacy be damned. It doesn't matter overall because it works for this movie. At the end of the day if Luke's grand total accomplishments are redeeming his father, bringing down the Empire and keeping the flame of the Jedi (and hope) alive in the galaxy for another generation, well that's not all that bad.

 

Yoda should have listened to his own advice. A master needs to accept the new generation (for him - Luke) have moved beyond them. Yoda should have supported Luke's new found theory that the Jedi must end.

And how is Rey supposed to learn from the generations of Jedi failure if she doesn't know just about any of it beyond the FIRST Jedi story through the "Sacred Jedi Text Messages".

 

Yoda did burn the tree when Luke didn't have the balls to go through with it.

Luke was straddling the fence the whole time.

Granted, Rey took the books, and Yoda knew this.

 

I wish she hadn't.

The best thing about that scene was Yoda talking smack about the Je'daii texts.

 

Yoda burning the tree was purely for Luke. It was the "I've burned those Sacred Jedi Texts" (from a certain point of view) all over again. Not ready for the burden was Luke; that Yoda has discarded Luke and figured Rey can't do much worse than somebody who runs the first time things don't go right with his new Jedi Order.

And how is it not hypocritical of Yoda to tell Luke to make room for the new, when he did no such thing for Luke. Even after Luke accomplished what Yoda's entire Jedi Order could not and still had the wrong answer decades later. Yoda needs a taste of humble pie.

 

We learned that Yoda is a pyromaniac and Rey is a kleptomaniac from years of scavenging.

 

If the Knights of Ren don't appear in Episode IX, I hope we get a videogame set between TLJ and IX where we play Rey as she infiltrates a big Star Destroyer and kills them one by one.

Also she hides inside a gonk droid a lot.

 

The Knights of Ren are JJ trying to be evocative of Vader being called a Dark Lord of the Sith and then it being dropped for 22 years (17 if you count Jedi Search).

I bet we don't see them in the films.

But I hope that just means we'll get KJA wacky hijinks with them afterward.

 

The Knights of Ren retired to Ahch-Three after failing to become Master of the Knights of Ren like Ben. They also tried to murder Ben in his sleep, like Sidious .. I mean Luke.

 

I think chances are better that we may see them in Episode IX, considering as the power structure of the FO is so shaken and Kylo may need some friends as backup.

Also they're JJ's creation so we may not have seen them under Trevorrow, but chances are better for JJ

 

Vader was never referred to as a Lord of the Sith in the films and his powers were always explained in the context of him being a former Jedi gone bad. Until RotJ, his first name is "Darth" as far anyone knows.

The only people who paid enough attention to even know the word "Sith" before the PT were the obsessives.

 

so you and I are obsessives?

****

I think my first exposure to it was in the Complete Guide to the Star Wars Universe, 2nd edition

And I agree it wasn't in the film but I think that's what JJ was going for.

 

Probably, but to be truly authentic he should have kept it to the supplementary material and toys and whatnot.

 

I swear I found out about the "Dark Lord of the Sith" on the back card of my original Kenner Darth Vader not-so action figure. But I can't find a back of the card that looks like that. Maybe it was the Topps trading cards.

I also assumed then that Darth was short for
DARk lord of the siTH

 

Yes, and here you are, on a Star Wars forum.

 

Oh, no Complete.

Why isn't Bill Slavicsek on the story group? Wikipedia says he's one of the world's leading experts on Star Wars.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html

 

I think it's simply the fact that the story they are trying to tell would be too much for just three films. Ultimately these films are about passing on what you have learned and the philosophical questions that come with that, and the best way to bring Luke to those questions is to have him having failed a student. Naturally if there were other Jedi around it would seem pointless for Luke to even think about it, because he's already passed on what he's learnt.

I think it's implied that the Jedi are needed for Balance, but not for the reasons either of them actually mention. They aren't needed in a purely practical sense i.e. their existence isn't the only thing keeping balance. But on a spiritual level the Jedi are required to keep hope, and thus stoke the light to maintain itself.

 

Well, nearly so anyway. I wouldnt habe expected there to be an "established" Jedi Order, because the EU version is probably not particularly realistic. Hundreds of Jedi out doing derring-do? I could see maybe a half dozen fully trained Knights. No Masters, and a handful of younglings/padawans in Ben's class.

So, you put a character like Lor San Tekka on Jakku to be killed by the Jedi Killer/Kylo in search of the map to Skywalker. Rey takes the role of the Exile from KOTOR2. She finds Luke, and he's as we find him in TLJ.

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We can dispense with the "just doing what Lucas was going to do anyway". It was disproved in the visual guide.

Oh look. Lucas said there was going to be a bad person, a new good person and Luke was going to face a challenge.

 

It's called drama, Luke starts at a low and returns to a high. No of course the Jedi aren't going to be wiped out for good. You might not agree with the path he took, but this is, "Bluh bluh 30 years of failure, it's pointless!" argument being repeated yet again. And I don't really feel compelled to try to change minds on that anymore. If you see it as a permanent scar on Luke's record, fine.

Luke kept the spark going for as long as he could, he's only human after all. And inspired a new generation to oppose the First Order.

I don't mind Luke's arc because it's interesting, because it is very "crotchety, bitter old western gunslinger coming back from retirement", and it's NOT like the EU. Did they need to take Luke down quite so far? Probably not. But his role in the film and Hamill's performance was extremely praise worthy, and got plenty of cheers at my showing.

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. That's okay.

I like Luke in the Last Jedi because he was an older Luke Skywalker from ANH, and not "perfect Zen" Jedi Master. Still a farm kid at heart, who may have failed, but still comes through for his friends in the end.

 

Honestly, most of us would have been cranky with whatever George would have done. The Lit community was agitated at him for running roughshod over the EU, especially when TCW happened. George personally nixing the EU to tell his own version of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker and the Solo daughter he passes the torch to would have upset many of us just as much, and Legends would have remained many of our preferred timeline.



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You should have never felt compelled in the first place. Present your point of view. Present things by others associated with the story to support your point of view. But most importantly, listen to others in the hope that they inspire thing you had not thought of yet.

Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for failure. You know what Yoda says about that. It's good or something. I don't know. Yoda says a lot of things.