Lit Did The Last Jedi change your view of the new SW canon?

I'll probably lose interest in Star Wars before I ever embrace the Nucanon. That means nothing besides that I love the old EU intently.

As it is the Nucanon's world building and lore isn't very appealing to me anyway but that's just a matter of preference.

 

Arguably the most genuine "I don't like the new canon because I'm an EU fan" comment I've seen.

Sincerely.

Now let's take the next step and not knock the new canon for it simply not being the EU.

People can actually like both. If you don't, you do you.

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That would be lovely. But why does this hinge on others validating a perspective? I think it's pretty well established a lot of uber fans had issues with TLJ.

Somehow, I'm guessing a validation of this previously unrecognized phenomenon, there have been news article about for christ's sake, will change pretty much nothing.


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Validate and accept are not the same thing.

 

Speaking only for myself and myself only, I was prepared to give the NEU a chance (and I love the character of Dr Aphra) but the fact shows Disney aren’t interested in making something new, just simply repackaging the old with a new label, so anything ancillary to that is not going to be as interesting, even if it (or the individual author) wants to be, it just can’t.

Strangely enough It’s one of the reasons why I think Rebels show is a failure as one example. Limited storytelling is always limited

 

Uh huh...

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Always hated that different authors trying to write in the same universe can be limiting to each others story. That's why I liked the Lucas era sandbox hierarchy approach. Creativity was allowed, but deferred to the previous stories with the one exception being "the original creator" being allowed to change at a later date so as not to limit their story.

When every piece has to be in place, then people just bring fewer pieces to arrange.

 

The Last Jedi did mostly kill my interest in the new canon, or at least new canon material set after Episode VI. For me personally, considering the filmmakers wouldn't be reading any of the new books or comics, the new canon is becoming only loosely canon to the films for me. Especially when we get a Phasma book and comic doing more for the character, before TLJ just goes back to making her completely useless.

It no longer feels like the story group has a realized vision for the canon, especially with the filmmakers are just making it up as they go along independently from the story group. TFA built up Rey to be this somebody that all of the characters knew about before, but TLJ just decides to say her parents were nobody? There was an obvious set up in the TFA that TLJ just threw away, and no doubt Abrams will want to retcon that in Episode 9. If even the most recent main film is quickly disregarded by Rian Johnson, than the new canon is subject to be dismissed too.

Overall TLJ confirmed to me that nothing of the new books or comics matters in the grand scheme of things with the live action films. Which I'm fine with. I'll still read some new canon stories if they interest me, and like Legends I'm more interested in the quality of the story rather than it's canon status, but for me personally the only set in stone canon is the 6 original films.

 

This whole conversation about which continuity is tighter and makes more internal sense and so on reminds me of the famous dispute between J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. These two, of course, were the most highly regarded fantasy writers of their day (if not all time), and while they were great friends most of the time, there was one thing they notoriously could never agree on - and that was, when constructing an elaborate fictional universe, whether it was more important for the stories to be internally consistent, or entertaining. Tolkien backed the former position and Lewis the latter, which you can see in stuff like Tolkien writing down the elaborate history, cosmology, and lore of Middle-Earth in excruciating detail to serve only as a reference for himself and not intending to actually publish it (his son would do so after his death), while Lewis' Narnia books had things like Santa Claus randomly showing up in the first book to provide a Deus Ex Machina to the Pevensie kids.

 

Perfect post, I feel the same way. I read countless books that were removed from cannon to only have new cannon books not matter at all, this movie answered no questions just posed more plot holes and disappoint.


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I would offer up advice to those that want to enjoy both the new canon in addition to the old, if they wanted it, but I mostly get the sense that people would argue with me about it.

 

Well if you aren't satisfied with TLJ and Nucanon, perhaps I can interest you in the EU where the OT Big 3 have dozens of adventures after ROTJ, more Skywalker/Solo kids, not all of them become Sith, there are enemies other than the Empire, a fully realized New Jedi Order, etc.
This movie could be a boon for the EU.

 

I think that's where most people in this thread are already at, so I don't think that they need advice?

 

What about the movie/NEU only people?

 

I don't think people in the lit forum being upset with TLJ is really representative of the larger population.

 

I haven't seen any of these people. It's only the EU "loyalists", for lack of a better term, who take such an exclusionary perspective.

People who like the movie and/or the NEU are also fans of the EU.

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Re: The haters are just on Lit.
Well the movie had an RT audience score of 56% when I checked. But yeah, they're probably all from Lit.

 

It also had an A on Cinemascore and 5/5 on comScore, which are random sample exit polling. RT is opt-in polling -- you have to specifically seek it out to be polled. Obviously butt hurt people are more apt to do that, but it in no way represents the broad population of people that saw the film; you don't have to even see the film to rate it on RT.

The Last Jedi will be the #2 highest grossing SW film, both domestically and worldwide, when all is said and done.

No one ever expected it to get anywhere near The Force Awakens, which nearly reached Avatar.

I suspect when adjusted for inflation, it will finish at #6, below TESB at #5. Right now it's just below Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One, which are very close to each other adjusted for inflation.

 

I've seen plenty fans of TPM-ROTJ not satisfied with TFA/TLJ and for the people who say that they only want to follow the NEU is because it's canon. The EU isn't, so they wouldn't bother with it.

 

I've seen a few people in the FFG forums as well profess extreme dislike for TLJ.

And in the movie forums, there seems to be a "OT and PT only" section of the fandom that dislike anything Star Wars not made by Lucas. "OT-only" fans also appear to exist who regard both the ST and PT with almost equal disdain.

Aside from maybe Ender, it doesn't seem like there are that many people who both love the ST and hate the EU.

 

I think the EU fandom is more diverse than the film saga. There's the PT, the OT, and the ST, but in the EU, there's folks that came in with Bantam and HTTE, and bowed out with Vector Prime. There's folks that loved the NJO, but bowed out with DNT or LOTF. And there's folks that loved those books. There's folks that read Dark Horse. That played Dark Forces or KOTOR.

As far as EU fans go, it's not homogeneous by any means.

 

To be fair, I only participate in the TFN lit. boards. I don't interact with uber fandom is any other way anywhere. Everyone I've seen here, the lit. boards, are also EU fans. So my perspective, and that assertation I made, is skewed by that.

But knowing about the context of the people who post on lit. boards, it seems weird that people are reporting how "oppressed" they feel by alleged "NEU-only" people. Especially when most here are saying they didn't like the movie.

And yeah...at least try for objectivity and understand what the statistics of the Rotten Tomato poll is actually telling us.

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I wonder if people consider me an NEU only person? lol

 

To be fair to Lewis the worldbuilding while Kitchen Sink became more consistent and understandable in later books.

You have the world of Narnia-one continent with at least some islands. Narnia is on the eastern side, with Archenland to the south and then Calormen, west of Narnia is the Western Wild, same with Archenland. West of Calormen were some unnamed nations in which Calormen fought endemic wars. North of Narnia was the Wild Lands of the North populated by Giants and witches. On the far west we know is where Telmar was.

We know Bism is an underground realm deep in Narnia, and Aslan's country surrounds the whole of that world-above, beneath, beyond, on all sides.

We know when Narnia was created and when it was destroyed, we know the names of Narnian kings, and we know the name of the main city-Cair Andros.

While Narnia is for children-for children and as Christian supposition the worldbuilding isn't bad at all.

In fact I rather like it. It's simple, compact, and leaves some mystery but is understandable in the broad strokes.

 

I don’t want to read about a bunch of wayward kids and cartoony pirate hijinx. The Star Wars EU used to be so much more than that now it’s just gonna be a continuation of Filoni’s Clone Wars style goofyness.